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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2015 21:10:20 GMT 8
Julie help!!!!
umm, most of us do not feel anyting of god when we come in off hte street. we feel like hte scum of the earth. the steps bring us to the god of our understanding, and then we begin to heal.... and the god of our understanding in that program is often not crhistian. It is for me, but for manyt others, they walk and alternative sprititual path, and we all get along great, because every day is life and death for us, bend the arm, you die.
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Post by Cynthia13 on Jan 30, 2015 22:10:29 GMT 8
I came into the rooms wrapped up in my son's addiction and the lives of others. I didn't exist other than for what I could do for others. I was defined by my "jobs"; mother, sister, girlfriend, employee, etc.. I failed to exist unless someone needed something from me. This had been my role in life since I was young, so it was natural way for me to exist.
I also walked in with some very real, very deep emotional wounds regarding religion and God. The way I saw it was that God had abandoned me, left me to suffer, gave me to this "family" of dysfunction that I fought to survive in. It didn't sound like a very loving and nurturing god to me. So I turned my back. I'm still struggling with the religion issues, not entirely certain where they come from other than my belief that religion is man made, not god made. Man's interpretation gets twisted and used for control. Man decides "good" or "evil" and treats each other accordingly. Also doesn't sound very loving.
I fought my sponsor on steps 2 and 3 because of these beliefs, but I've found something that works for me. I've been able to experience and embrace a spirtural side that I never considered possible. This allowed me to let go of my illusion of control and see that there is something greater than myself at work.
Step 4's character defects have nothing to do with anyone but myself. What I deem no longer woring for me. Things I've done all of my life, mostly to protect me and keep people at arms length. I'm struggling with my sponsor at this point because she keeps wanting to shove me into a box of her understanding which I simply don't fit into. My "defects" are what I determine them to be, not society or anyone else. The workbook we use questions why we do certain things and if these work for us or not. It questions our perceptions of ourselves and others. From this we begin to see what we may want to change. It helps us define our strengths and weaknesses. It's my choice what I do with the findings.
The program and the steps have given me a way to bring the focus back to me, where I do have some control. It's given me a chance to sit back and truly look at my part in my life. I can see how my actions have lead me to where I am; good and bad, and choose to do differently if I feel it's needed. It's shown me my strengths and given me ways to overcome or define my perceived weaknesses.
It's also given me a voice. One that I can use effectively instead of just whine or complain. One that helps others find their strengths.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 3:03:32 GMT 8
I don't want to discourage anyone here as this may seem rather negative and devilish on my part. I have commented elsewhere how I had put my eldest son in a recovery center for drugs and alcohol back when he was seventeen, he is now forty-four, clean and sober and quite successful. During that time I had sat in on several lectures on addiction by Dr. Milam an expert and took note of his comment about how northern European types, especially those with Nordic roots are more prone to alcoholism and because I was an occasional party-hearty type I decided to go to AA once a day for a week. Eventually I decided that I'd heard all the stories and was sick of the cigarette smoke, so I bought the AA Big Book and read it cover to cover and said amen as it was full of good information and I do occasionally re-read chapter five for a tune-up and as a reminder about the evils of demon rum.
What I find is a really galling behavior by AA veterans is their propensity to make judgments about someone like myself who can enjoy a social drink but knows enough to put the cork back in the bottle rather than drain it's contents and go for another like most alcoholics do. I have been in the supermarket and have run into a certain AA counselor who invariably looks in my shopping basket and takes mental notes of the bottle of wine I may be purchasing, he is just a complete pill! I've been told by other AA members that because I can enjoy an occasional drink and have self control that I must be in denial. I mean holy shit, these people are more self righteous than a church full of holy rollers! To some of these people AA is their sole reason for living now and there is no life beyond that and some of them are so boring to be around I'd much rather watch paint dry. Just offering my own opinion and it may be offensive as all hell, but some of those folks need to get a life beyond AA and it doesn't require drinking or drugs either.
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Post by Cynthia13 on Jan 31, 2015 3:50:01 GMT 8
We have the same types in the anon rooms. Some are quite upset with me for getting a life outside the rooms since theirs are consumed with it. Not everyone who drinks are does drugs are addicts. There's much more to it then that and some judged based on their knowledge without considering there may be a different answer. Personnaly, I'm not an addict and I can enjoy whatever I choose and not have any issues walking away. Others can't do that. No one else can say if someone is, only the person walking that road can. Quite frankly it's no one else's business anyway. This includes me... my son's and sister's issues are for them to discover. I can say they may have a problem and they've told me they're addicted, but it's theirs to determine what, if anything to do about it. The people who judge and assume should spend a bit more time looking in the mirror if you ask me...
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Post by Taka on Jan 31, 2015 4:15:54 GMT 8
well, that was enlightening thanks to all who contributed. those are some poorly formulated steps, but the better explanations make sense. particularly what cynthia explained.
but i can't help laughing just a little at how some people just turned their addiction to meetings, and obsession from getting it to denying even others the right to use it. there are more useful things to pour your heart into. why not spend that meeting time playing woth your kids or grandchildren...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 4:45:30 GMT 8
Shan, if an "AA" expert tells you that you are in denial because you drink now and then tell them to bugger off. It is none of their business, and such a statement is found no where in the literature. What it does say is, try quitting, do it more than once. See how that works for you. I quit having any alcoholic beverages entirely for a five year period and didn't miss it and then when I mentioned to an AA member that I decided to enjoy a drink on social occasions I was told that I had been "white knuckling it and joanzing for five years." I had to respond, "Thanks a lot moron!"
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Post by Taka on Jan 31, 2015 4:48:57 GMT 8
that's good for you, julie. but some people really do obsess too much, and when it lasts for too long, it becomes an unhealthy reaøity rather than a step in a process.
i'll willingly admit my own addiction to fiction. i don't intend to break this one though, i'll just make sure my daughter or i won't suffer from it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2015 4:49:57 GMT 8
well, that was enlightening thanks to all who contributed. those are some poorly formulated steps, but the better explanations make sense. particularly what cynthia explained. but i can't help laughing just a little at how some people just turned their addiction to meetings, and obsession from getting it to denying even others the right to use it. there are more useful things to pour your heart into. why not spend that meeting time playing woth your kids or grandchildren... The same as been said to me about participating in the trans forums. The answer is that in either case these things are not mutually exclusive. Until I could live life sober, I could not be a responsible parent. Some self examination and absorption is part of the process. Until I could discover a means to accept and explore my gender identity, I could not be loving and accepting of people in my family who did not understand. Getting clean enabled me to play, as did finding authenticity in transition. In both cases I did not forsake my kids and grandkids, but found a new way to embrace them. j Best we can do is realize that life on the big rock isn't a one-size-fits-all situation!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 3:40:50 GMT 8
In deference to my friends here, the sign is not true, should be worded got your ass kicked last night, blacked out and couldn't remember squat!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 9:39:44 GMT 8
I kinda forgot. It's not my sobriety date due to a grass slip Nov 27 1985, but today is 31 years without a drink.
Cool.
Lots of help to get it, vigilance to keep it.
The night before, I had a Broadway show close before opening due to a rights fight, and they took the cast to an open bar, where I threw up on the director's foot.
A memorable last drunk. And the death of my career as I gave up shows to get sober.
Worth it.
Blessings.
Yes, it is possible to stay sober unconditionally.
Trinity
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2015 22:47:02 GMT 8
I bought a half rack of beer last week and drank one and wondered to myself "how I could ever have liked this shit!" I set the rest aside for one of the neighbors. If we are all honest we'd have to admit that none of that stuff really tastes good at all, and that we had formerly acquired a "taste" for it not for taste but for the buzz. I started glubbing down beer in the Army because it was supposedly the manly thing to do and I quit several years ago. I'll have to admit in retrospect that it's clearly not good for me on a number of levels.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2015 19:15:31 GMT 8
I'm reeling a bit from the verbal assault in the Aa meeting specific to talking about trans and getting through the hardships. I don't feel like going back to that meeting, it was particularly nasty, and yes, from a conservative Christian that probably can't stand that I'm a Pentecostal Christian and trans.
Regardless, I'm struggling with it, the cut delivered was deep, and especially so since I sent years developing that meeting to be a safe place, where folks revealed horrors they could never discuss elsewhere.
Upset for three days straight now.
Way out of the traditions. Seriously.
I suspect he'll have whiplash. At work, 4 people said goodbye, but those that did, matter a lot to me.
True colors shown. I'm grateful to the four.
Choosing to live publicly trans has a cost. Rewards too, but that cost is one you need to assess. It's loneliness in a crowd, rejection and scorn a constant companion. I handle it with God with me, carrying me, it happened to Him too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 3:31:05 GMT 8
OK number 1 is never go back to the old days. Any of ya'll and I love you all and wish you the very best. So number two. I love alcohol. I love narcotics and I hate meth though. I do love a good "Scooby Snack" though. And narcotics. I really hope the best for everyone in AA, NA or any 12 step program. Beat it. You have my respect. I don't really want to beat it though. Sorry my dear friends but I would rather it beat me. Sorry but a little down right now. It is that time of month. we gotta' go sometime an the sooner the better for me right now. Don't worry. I will never do the big "S" But death son t scare me at all. Maybe even a little relief. If you can handle it enjoy it. If it turns on you and you want out, we can help. Nobody quits unless they desperately want to get sober. Party safe my dear. OK you told me this way back in January Trinity. I don't know what to say really. I don't want to get sober. Definitely not desperately sober. If anything reaching farther. Could be the lifestyle I'm living right now or maybe it just shortens "The Ride" a little. The thing that kind of confuses me is how do you know? Most people end up losing what is important to them. Well, I'm just the opposite and gaining. Eventually it may get out of hand and I would love to see the signs when that starts happening and then take back control. But it seems to have a totally opposite effect on me. Of course I leave the bad shit alone but I can drink a half gallon of Vodka in a night's time and sleep a little bit and wake up with no hangover. The Coke don't even effect me. I don't really care for the narcotics other than hydrocodone or oxycodone every now and then. Other than that it is weed and alcohol. Right now life is somewhat good except for one thing, what most of us want more than anything, and alcohol and drugs are part of it. Oh well. I would rather go out in my prime instead of waiting until I'm old and withered to nothing but a shell. But that's just me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 4:39:02 GMT 8
Enjoy it, if it turns on you, we can talk.
Have fun and dont get knocked up.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Aug 18, 2015 10:22:33 GMT 8
I woke up this morning an I got myself a beer, the futures uncertain and the end is always near, Roll baby, roll...
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