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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 8:26:05 GMT 8
Well........ My wife just started watching the whole series of re-runs of "Dallas", and by the time she gets to the 100th episode, I may be in need of that Suicide hotline number....?? I can relate!
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Post by bhhfmm on Jan 14, 2015 8:31:35 GMT 8
Well........ My wife just started watching the whole series of re-runs of "Dallas", and by the time she gets to the 100th episode, I may be in need of that Suicide hotline number....?? And when she gets done with that, there is also Knott's Landing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 8:38:43 GMT 8
Well........ My wife just started watching the whole series of re-runs of "Dallas", and by the time she gets to the 100th episode, I may be in need of that Suicide hotline number....?? And when she gets done with that, there is also Knott's Landing. Waaaa ha,ha,ha!
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Post by Edge on Jan 14, 2015 9:25:25 GMT 8
No. Not unless I ever get diagnosed with Alzheimer's anyway and, by that point, I'd be dying anyway. I'd also be likely to become suicidal again if I were placed on anti-depressants. Luckily, that will only happen if I allow it and I definitely do not. Yes, I did try a few times a few years ago. Yes. Living is a much better alternative. Yes.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jan 20, 2015 10:17:29 GMT 8
I've had quite a few different scenarios that I've thought about over the years. Most of them have too many drawbacks to them. There are also different ways of looking at them. There is the quick and gone before you know it even happened. There is the more drawn out ones that are closer to the more 'classic' and also dramatic ones. One of my favorites was the intervention ones, but I think I've pretty much used them up. Those are the set yourself up for the divine intervention. I don't really know if that works or not, but there is always somebody who does something to intervene. That all comes down to the way, which is usually the allotted time involved in it, and putting yourself where you have a reasonable chance of getting caught. I've been through those a few times, and they do work, you get caught and then get the attention you are usually needing in the first place. I've also tried the painless route, overdose with painkillers, opiates are most common. Used a shitload of Haldol one time, but got caught. I've also used whatever was handy at the time that enough of will kill you eventually, but you also run the risk of not having enough and things go wrong. Things went wrong of course, that intervention thing that a rookie is smart enough to try a few times. You don't die, but are instead pretty much brain dead and just aware enough to know you fucked it up. it is a risky thing this killing yourself. You could very easily not die and be worse off than you are, which puts you into a catch 22 kind of thinking and makes it difficult. Easy is the way to think about it, in those last few seconds, the last swallow of another handful of pills isn't as easy as you'd like to think. If you think about it, the TV and movie methods pretty much are just a part of the plot and are written in as filler stuff and aren't as easy as it looks. There is always getting yourself shot, but that isn't a guarantee either, could leave you worse off than you were and then never being able to finish it. The shooter is either really bad or you are very unlucky and find a really good shooter who will wing you long enough to take you down and to the psyche unit. Cutting your wrists really hurts like hell and if you take enough painkillers, most likely you will be so high that you will forget about it before the painkillers are actually working well enough to stop that slashing pain across your wrists. Think your average cutting hurts a little? You have to slash up the length of several veins if you want to be sure it is going to work, it takes time as well. Could shoot yourself in the head, and some do. I think there is to much drama internally that you have to go through, and you still might mess it up and not die. The old car into a wall or oncoming traffic in this day and age of cars that crumple to absorb the shock is not a sure fire bet like it used to be, again, you screw it up and you could be just making life even worse. You have to be very careful how you do this to succeed and the likelihood of everything falling in place is not likely. Jumping has a certain appeal to it, a few thousand feet is more than enough, twenty stories might not, people have hit car tops and lived, sort of. You can't be afraid of heights and you will be seen, sure as anything, somebody will and then it takes forever to get out of the psych unit to try again and by then, you might not want to. The problem with doing most any of these is the risk of getting caught in the act and people being who they are will rescue you, but not get you the proper things that you needed to keep you from it in the first place.
*having a real need to die is the very first rule here, if you don't have that, then just go home and call a hotline. If you do plan on OD'ing, you will need more than the usual single prescription level or bottles worth to be sure. It takes several times what they are willing to prescribe at one time, so plan on it taking several times of picking up a script for painkillers and saving them up, but then you will need to take a few to get you through until the next time. That's a long time to think about it and are you ready to make that kind of commitment? Things might change you know, while you wait. If you have the money to buy them, then you have enough money to usually at least get you to a shelter or to a friends or somewhere you can find a better solution. Leaving a big mess is also a concern, you might not think so, you will be dead, right? It crosses your mind in a big way. You don't want someone to find you and think you're just an asshole, so it does cause you to hesitate more than a few times. Increases the risk of getting caught and also demoralizes the very reasons for wanting to kill yourself. As odd as that sounds, it's true. It isn't you, very rarely, it is a response to what others have done or how you have been treated, so you want to be the good person here, otherwise, it's just not all that effective at getting your point across. And you need one of those, a good one, otherwise what good is it? To just die and have nothing come from it but to stop the pain? It's weird the amount of moral justifications you go through, way more than just getting to the day you decide. There are actually better ways of doing that and in most cases, just showing up at an ER and telling them you are suicidal will get you a week or so in a psyche unit, they don't want you running around risking others lives, that kind of talk always scares them, so you have a good or better chance at getting the problem the pain of being at least looked at and maybe fixed. Death is pretty much final and you won't ever know if help was right there at the ER despite having the stuff to kill yourself. I know I said they tend to cut you loose too soon, but you just never know.
Here's the other thing, that once you try and aren't successful, the thoughts of it stay with you and really mess with your head for a long time, maybe forever, how could you have thought that in the first place? Doesn't matter if you got caught or just decided not to after all. You better be damn sure of what you're doing, and chances are you forgot something. One of those things most people won't tell you because we don't talk about it and those who do, are usually at the front door of a psyche unit, the hell on earth where they feed you and brainwash the shit out of you until they decide to turn you loose without fixing a damn thing and you'll have to start everything all over again. Think your job will be there if it doesn't work out and you are let loose from the psyche unit? It might, until they don't feel like feeling sorry and get rid of a you.
If you really are serious and there is no talking your way out of it and none of these drawbacks are for you, there are only two sure fired ways to get it done right and you will be all alone, more than you are now, like away from people for long enough that they are done looking for you. And by then, you might as well assume another ID and lie your way to the top and become a CEO or politician. They always seem to go on forever, don't they? You'll need a couple days minimum of food. More if anyone cares about you enough to keep looking for you. You'll need a place to hide where you can't be found. These things take time, but if you really want to do it right, then this is the only way to avoid all the other trap-falls in this. You'll need to make a suicide kit, the things you're going to need. These take some money and time to get, some you may have to steal, and you don't want to get caught, because it's pretty obvious what your stealing this stuff for. But this also gives you time to think it over as well, so maybe you might want to make up a few kits and stash them beforehand, just in case you ever do want to kill yourself. Take it from someone who has tried it too may times and failed, and I'm not the kind of person who usually fails at stuff, it is hard to do. So you still want to know how to do this the right way and what you're going to need? I won't tell you, it's a dumb idea that never works out either way and there are just to many places to get the help you need. Your best bet is to look into those first, it's a helluva lot easier and you won't spend the rest of your life wondering each day about it again, when it doesn't go as planned,like I do. I tend to think about it everyday, even if it only a passing thought, you know it is there. I can't stop that and everytime something does go wrong, it's sometimes a involuntary reaction to an otherwise simple problem that if you put in even a fourth the effort, it will be resolved, just like the one that has or might come up. There really are only two easy ways to do it and if you're determined, it's gonna take some real research and more than those wimpy suicide sites that give you all kinds of stupid answers that won't work and you'll see that as soon as you think it through for a minute or less. In less than the time it took you to read this, a good hotline, and there are more than a few, will be able to get you more help than you think you can get otherwise. Besides, even if you simply call the police or sheriffs dept, they are going to get you to an ER where you will be evaluated for a weekend or so while they line up the things you need to just get over it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 10:43:42 GMT 8
No. Not unless I ever get diagnosed with Alzheimer's anyway and, by that point, I'd be dying anyway. I'd also be likely to become suicidal again if I were placed on anti-depressants. Luckily, that will only happen if I allow it and I definitely do not. Yes, I did try a few times a few years ago. Yes. Living is a much better alternative. Yes. Damned right!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 18:48:34 GMT 8
I so regret posting this bloody thread.
I only hope good comes and not tragedy.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jan 21, 2015 0:26:55 GMT 8
The thing about suicide is that it is such a taboo subject. You're sorry you put it up? Best to let people just think it is an easy way out instead of talking it through? Being trans was much the same way, a taboo subject and look how screwed up a lot of old information is still being thrown around. That it is talked about more freely and there are many more people out there to help you, from professionals to those who it didn't go so well. The ones who made the mistakes are the ones who set the course for those who have found a better way. To not talk about suicide and just shrug our shoulders and leave it at that is one of the reasons people think there is no other way out. To have a conversation about it is the way that people will find out that there is always a better way to handle those kinds of emotional outbursts. It isn't a disorder or disease, it is the response to society that has failed you. It is you not being able to find the resources you need. There are more and more ways to come to grips with whatever it is that is wrong in your life. To not talk about that is to be ignorant of the possibilities. And there are alternatives, better ones than just a hotline with someone giving you the don't do it talk, the 'you're going to hell' talk. That one is the lamest one of them all, you want to do it because life is hell as it is, so what difference does it make? There are hotlines out there for us, people who understand what it is for us to be and have to deal with the downside of just being. It makes a lot of difference if you know and understand that you can find a solution, a way to fix things. If people won't talk about it, it becomes and it is just like mental health in all of it's various forms. Shhh, they have a mental disorder, don't say anything, they might go crazy and kill people you know. Just like those who turn away from the problems that plague society today, to many of them turn a blind eye to something they can do something about, if it wasn't such a taboo thing to talk about. People who are on those bottom rungs are there because the rest of society doesn't want to see them or deal with them because of preconcieved notions that simply aren't true or are distorted enough that they might as well not be true. Shhh, that person is hurting so fucking bad that they want to kill themselves and if you touch them or interfere, even just pause to wonder why, it might be catchy and the next thing you know it will happen to you. Best not talk about it. Let it be glorified in movies and TV shows. Hell in some of those, they portray it as a solution! To not talk, to turn a blind eye, is no better than those who wish trans would just go away as well. Can't handle the truth of it? That's because you don't want to deal with the real truths and would rather just have life go on without having to be bothered by it. Even when it is recognized, and you do try to get help, there is very little money and resources to truly help someone, because society doesn't want to waste money on someone who has given up. In their eyes. Better to just ignore it until it goes away... It it those very same people who have created the problem in the first place, that society doesn't care enough, so why not just give up? Yep, it is a distasteful topic and it is hard to look at, but so are so many of the things going on in a fucked up world. People are all up in arms about eboola. Did you stop and read about, do you even care that it has, in stopping it, caused even more people there to die from malaria? No, because all you are concerned about is that you don't get Ebola and die. Suicide and so many other things that are seldom talked about continue on and are still a huge problem that is more easily fixed and costs society less money in the long run, if people just stopped long enough to actually discuss it instead of leaving it in the shadows, as if it something that will go away if they just ignore it. Pretty much like how society treated trans, and look at the ratio of suicides among trans people. It is a valid subject, one that is more important than how you put your fucking make up on or how do I look in this pic. It is by far one of the most important aspects of being trans and it is being ignored here, just like it is in so many places in society that deems it to hard to talk about. Everyone raises holy hell about that kid who walked in front of an oncoming truck, but like usual, the talk centered around that person, while others were busy killing themselves because we don't want to talk about it. We talk about a tragic incident and not the tragedy that it is for so many. It is the single most negative and downside of being trans and you don't want to even look at it? It's killing trans people. That's fucked and you all know it. I left a tongue in cheek comment, but if you really don't want to face the one thing that is most likely to kill you, then by all means, lets talk about how to put on make up and how nice we look in this or that pic. Let's be just like that other forum where they don't want to talk about what's truly important and lets keep this all about us as individuals and forget the bigger picture. Lets all pretend it is all comfy and everything is simply rainbows coming out of a unicorns ass. Lets treat this like so many of the topics that start out talking about things of true concern and let it become one that is about something superficial and easy to talk about. Because it's so much easier to discuss what the fuck we are having for lunch, who won what fricken game, what is the latest fashion news, and listen to those songs that we like. Lets all stay away from the real truths of what is going on in our worlds and stop talking about the difficulties, lets talk about rainbows and puppies instead. It's not really like that here, we do talk about some important things, but lately, they dissolve into our own little individual worlds and we talk about that if it is the same for another one of us. Lets kill this topic because it has nothing to do with the bulk of the conversations, it's out of place. It doesn't fit in with fashion and games and just good old trivial stuff that has been talked about to the point that we seem to have run out of meaningful things to say half the time. Lets just keep it a clubhouse and pretend the rest of everything doesn't matter, but us as individuals. It all matters, lets not leave it off the table of discussions because it might be harder to talk about than the upside of it all we wish was even better. It never will be any better if we don't at least recognize the underlying difficulties of our lives and others lives, of trans and people in general. Instead of shooing away what is important as a topic, we should be bringing up and talking about even more topics like this, the ones that really do matter. Doesn't mean we can't talk about all the rest that is talked about, but don't forget that there are more things that are more important to talk about, there always is. If it triggers you, chances are you just don't want to face it's truth and how it applies to you, it's always easier to look the other way. If it truly is a trigger, look at the subject line and see if it is one that isn't good for you to talk about. But don't ignore it's importance. Let's not stop talking about those things that matter more than just the trivial shit in our lives. And that's not even a rant, it's a truth. That's what we came here for, is to find out and to talk about and just maybe do something about, those truths that are us. The ones that really are important, just like all the trivial stuff is that is so much easier to talk about, the up side of our truths. We need to face and talk about the downsides as well, if those upsides are to have any real meaning to them, for us, as trans, and as people. Ativan
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 0:37:45 GMT 8
That was my intent really.
I was appalled at how many of us had plans.
Defenses were not laid out.
I thought I had triggered something bad.
Now the meaningful discussion is coming out.
Which was the intent to start.
It was what I wanted to see, defenses.
I have a refuge to run to, intercessors, intervention on call. I have a plan out. Patty is on call.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jan 21, 2015 1:39:16 GMT 8
A better plan is to not have to have a plan in the first place. I don't think Patty could handle so many at one time and not start to make a plan as well. That one is putting part of your problem on someone else, instead of taking care of the problem itself. The point is to stop it before you need to make a plan out. Not everyone has the ability to do so. That's why it keeps on happening. A better idea than a plan out is to not have to make that plan. That's the point. Once you make those plans instead of taking care of the problem, most likely you will always be making those kinds of plans. They get easier everytime something goes wrong and something always is going wrong. Can you make a plan in case being trans doesn't work out? Can you escape that as well? Or is it better to not have to make a plan, an escape route? Escaping from suicide only works if the root cause is fixed. The problems of being trans will only go away if the root cause is fixed. Trying to run away from yourself never works, you only find yourself again when you do. And you won't like the self you've become, even more than the pain of the one you are in now. The plan is to not ever have to make or have a plan of escape in the first place. It's the only one that really works. Running away is turning a blind eye towards yourself. The pain will still be there, just as you will be when you get there if you run, try to escape yourself. It isn't you, it's the way society looks at you. They dislike to think about suicide even more than trans. Because the problem isn't being trans, the problem is society has failed. The plan is to stop that failure before it takes another. You can't run away from that, if you do, you make it worse, not only for yourself, but those who follow. But if that's what it takes, then escape until you can figure out a way to stop the pain. But you will always have to think about it, that you let suicide, even the thought of it, made you run. Even if life does become better, you will never, ever, forget that. Even worse, you might become fixated on that, let it ruminate around in your head. That's even harder to escape. The better plan is to figure out a way to not have to make those kinds of plans, either running from it, or doing it. Planning an escape is not all that much different than planning on how to kill yourself. It's giving into it, without finding the possibilities that most likely are there if you just put in the effort to find them. When all else fails, sure, a plan to escape works, right up until the next time and the next time will be even easier than the first. After all, you just did succeed in not stopping the planning one way or another. You'll try to do better the next time, and the next time...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 1:56:19 GMT 8
Suicide isn't on the table as an option for me, I have some negative feelings about it partially based on my own spiritual beliefs and partially because it is always such a permanent solution for what are usually temporary problems. I know that's not always true for others and I would never presume that my thoughts on the subject should be applicable to everyone.
I'll have to admit that there was a time prior to any consideration of transitioning on my part that when I was suffering from the long term effects of Agent Orange contamination and was considering surgical castration that I laid out in my Chaise lounge and swilled down the better part of a fifth of 100 proof Vodka, that I wasn't thinking straight when I stuck my .45 auto in my mouth. Luckily for me the handgun has two safeties and I was too blasted to make it go off. Next morning I awoke, took off my vomit covered T shirt, hit the shower and headed off to work. I spent the remainder of the day thinking about how devastating that act would have been to my family and what a selfish act that would have been for me. It's just not an option for me no matter how bad off I might think things are.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 2:24:15 GMT 8
Looks like I know nothing about this topic at all.
I do know how to outlast pain. I know just a little of the pain of trans. Very little.
I have family, a job, a workable presentation. Friends.
If I lose all that?
Still have trans friends.
Yeah Patty keeps an eye on me. I keep an eye on Julie. I worry about Ativan, others here.
Suicide was never an option for me.
Then I got tired of feeling nuts, wrote the scenarios, and saw it pragmatically doesn't work, collateral damage, no go, genderqueer is only way out for me. And now that's getting cool.
But it wasn't cool two weeks ago.
I hate the topic.
But I agree with Ativan.
I never tried it, never had a plan. Even now it's some fuzzy drink thing. I can forget that one easily.
Good words.
The tragedy of trans is that it hurts. Period. For me.
It's getting better. It's going to get great.
So I have unconditional sobriety, have for years.
Time for unconditional living.
Digging the roots.
I intend to bring things into my life that enrich this life.
I intend to try to help others by telling them they matter to me.
But this topic?
I am too ignorant about it.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jan 21, 2015 3:22:45 GMT 8
Pretty much a had to be there kind of thing to get the full impact, but even thinking about it isn't all that much different in the end results. If we can collectively talk about it, that might just help others. If even more people collectively talk about it, what it does for those who have survived, it might bring about a sense of hope. Even those who are just leaving it on the table as an off hand option have some sense of the power it can have over someone. The ability to take it off the table is very important as a discussion as well. I can't offer anything about that, I took it too far, too many times. I almost succeeded twice, very close. Unconscious for days in ICU. Several hundred Joules hurts like hell. It remains on the table for me, because I have a better understanding of how easy it really is. That won't go away, I already learned it, understand it from that perspective. Also, it's been some time now and I can remember how much easier it was, so I also have an idea of how hard it is as well. A weird perspective, to be sure, but not one I am alone in, not by any means. I've been seeing a therapist every week and a psychologist once a month, for the last six years. Getting closer to diluting what it has resulted in, how it affects my thinking. I talk to them about being trans, suicide, nightmares and what memory recall has done, both in losing those memories, as well as getting them back. I doubt I'll ever be able to stop therapy if I expect to survive. I talk about the recent suicides, (I can call them attempts, but I don't like to, they could have been), I have much better recall of the feelings surrounding them. But I know it existed in times past that even more weird crap is on the table ahead of it. I see no reason to not talk about it in a way that is about how to prevent it, even if that means explaining the circumstances. They are all different yet have a thread that runs through them as far as I can tell, I've talked to to many survivors to not see it. It's the same, but different for most everyone. Here, trans is a big part of it and we shouldn't shy away from the truth of it. It plays into it, even if you haven't thought about it. You still read about others. We lose to many people all the time, that alone makes it valid. The reasons why are even more valid in talking about them, most of us have experienced one or more at sometime or another, and a lot still do. To talk about it is to prevent that line of thinking from getting to that point. That's the plan, the conversation. Even if it does get triggering, if you have survived it, I think you can talk about it. If you have it on the table but haven't seriously thought about it, maybe talking about it will stop that, maybe even take it off the table for you. So long as this is a safe place to do so. We all have our opinions, they all differ. So do our reactions. Recognition of those is one of the first steps in preventing and in healing. Relapses are a bitch. We haven't even begun to talk about it, we don't even have legit hotlines up. A blind eye or just haven't gotten there yet. This isn't a topic that can be taken lightly, we have those and they are fun, don't get me wrong. They help a lot in the healing and help with the pain of being. Time to get ready to go talk to my therapist. There are many things to talk about today, this might be one of them. It still comes up after six years. Ativan
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2015 20:42:41 GMT 8
Ativan is right, suicide and mental health are such a taboo, so reviled and misunderstood that we blame people for taking their own lives. Calling them selfish rather than asking why someone has reached a point where they feel that they an't reach out and have no other options.
Yes it is a horrible thing for somebody to end their life, but the real horror is the fact they felt they had no other option.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 2:26:53 GMT 8
Ativan is right, suicide and mental health are such a taboo, so reviled and misunderstood that we blame people for taking their own lives. Calling them selfish rather than asking why someone has reached a point where they feel that they an't reach out and have no other options. Yes it is a horrible thing for somebody to end their life, but the real horror is the fact they felt they had no other option. Options... What can we say? Remember Alex I? Dunno what happened to them... It's nuts, what happens to transpeople. Totally bullshit. So, suicide, other death. Linda's playground says we have a seventy percent mortality rate linked to being trans. And a deaf and dumb society that shuts it up, like the DES thing, and it's hellish stats. Because of what? What do we do about this besides first choosing to live instead of letting the haters keep winning? I don't lose well. Mad today.
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