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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 21:28:22 GMT 8
Finished a series entitled "Left Behind" by Tim Lahaye, what a load of crap, I want my money back! The business of dispensationalism is a load of crap too and a heresy which wasn't thought up until sometime in the 1800's. So many wanting to grow big churches preach that tripe to draw in those having itching ears.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 22:51:36 GMT 8
Wife extends gratitude for all of your prayers and wisdom.
Many thanks
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 22:52:15 GMT 8
Finished a series entitled "Left Behind" by Tim Lahaye, what a load of crap, I want my money back! The business of dispensationalism is a load of crap too and a heresy which wasn't thought up until sometime in the 1800's. So many wanting to grow big churches preach that tripe to draw in those having itching ears. What is dispensationalism?
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Post by Laura J on Mar 9, 2015 23:30:19 GMT 8
??? I'd like to know also.?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2015 23:38:09 GMT 8
Finished a series entitled "Left Behind" by Tim Lahaye, what a load of crap, I want my money back! The business of dispensationalism is a load of crap too and a heresy which wasn't thought up until sometime in the 1800's. So many wanting to grow big churches preach that tripe to draw in those having itching ears. What is dispensationalism? Dispensationalism is a theological system that teaches biblical history is best understood in light of a number of successive administrations of God's dealings with mankind, which it calls "dispensations." It maintains fundamental distinctions between God's plans for national Israel and for the New Testament Church, and emphasizes prophecy of the end-times and a pre-tribulation rapture of the church prior to Christ's Second Coming. Its beginnings are usually associated with the Plymouth Brethren movement in the UK and the teachings of John Nelson Darby. The "Left Behind" series is all about what I highlighted which is nonsense. The entire dispensation belief intimates that God changes His thinking for the church and somehow loves current day believers more than those of the first several centuries that were sawn in two, eaten by lions, boiled in oil, crucified, beheaded, and burned at the stake for their belief in God and His Christ and that for some obscure reason wouldn't let today's believers get their little paddies burned because they are so special.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 0:22:39 GMT 8
The "Great Tribulation" is something that the church has to endure prior to the Second Coming, Read Matthew 24. Christ talks about what happens to Israel in 70 AD and then talks about the wars and famines in various places which has been ongoing since then, and then He talks about a great tribulation that the believers endure, after which the sun goes dark (then the dead in christ rise and those still alive follow.. the rapture) and God then deals with the rest of mankind who refused His Christ. If you buy into Tim Lahaye's fantasy story then Matthew 24 and the Book of Revelation makes absolutely no sense. God doesn't give us confusion, the other fellow does! Dispensationalism was accepted by pastors who wanted to grow big mega churches making church big business. Meanwhile they are espousing easy believiesm for a whole lot of people who are ill prepared for what is going to happen, even now Christians and Jews, the people of the book are being slaughtered in Africa and the Mid-East and it will be coming to a town near you soon enough.
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Post by Malachite on Mar 12, 2015 1:21:25 GMT 8
While I still have to do my studying on dispensationalism, at least from how I understand it, is the belief, that God does different things with His people in certain time periods, or "dispensations". In the case of the pretribulation rapture, God takes His people out before the Great Tribulation occurs, which is unbiblical as many saints have gone through tribulation, so we can expect the same.
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Post by Whisper on Mar 13, 2015 1:35:30 GMT 8
I don't know how valuable the end time prophesies are to believers. Daniel and revelations have created so much confusion over the last 2000 years. I remember listening to preachers talk about during the 70s and 80s about how it was USSR that was bringing in the era, then it was iraq and iran in the 90s, then china, then iraq again, then n korea, then syria and isis, some say russia again. And that is only in the last 30 years. republicans say its obama. I wish i could rip those 2 books out and stomp them into the ground. There is plenty said just in the gospels.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 1:49:06 GMT 8
I don't know how valuable the end time prophesies are to believers. Daniel and revelations have created so much confusion over the last 2000 years. I remember listening to preachers talk about during the 70s and 80s about how it was USSR that was bringing in the era, then it was iraq and iran in the 90s, then china, then iraq again, then n korea, then syria and isis, some say russia again. And that is only in the last 30 years. republicans say its obama. I wish i could rip those 2 books out and stomp them into the ground. There is plenty said just in the gospels. Yes you're right about that and it should be the focal point, however I can't look the other way and nod while there is a rather huge heresy being taught in mainline churches with all the poof and twaffle concerning rapture to the extent that anyone reading some of the books espousing pre-tribulation rapture would consider how ridiculous the church goers are to believe something that outrageous. Anyone reading the Olivet Discourse in either Matthew or Mark in light of those false teachings would be totally confused and unable to understand what Christ is saying in terms of context. Those espousing the pre-trib baloney will no doubt be ill prepared spiritually and emotionally for what really happens and will begin to have doubts, their blood will be on the heads of the likes of LaHaye and the others pushing that drivel.
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Post by Whisper on Mar 14, 2015 7:58:09 GMT 8
I don't know how valuable the end time prophesies are to believers. Daniel and revelations have created so much confusion over the last 2000 years. I remember listening to preachers talk about during the 70s and 80s about how it was USSR that was bringing in the era, then it was iraq and iran in the 90s, then china, then iraq again, then n korea, then syria and isis, some say russia again. And that is only in the last 30 years. republicans say its obama. I wish i could rip those 2 books out and stomp them into the ground. There is plenty said just in the gospels. Yes you're right about that and it should be the focal point, however I can't look the other way and nod while there is a rather huge heresy being taught in mainline churches with all the poof and twaffle concerning rapture to the extent that anyone reading some of the books espousing pre-tribulation rapture would consider how ridiculous the church goers are to believe something that outrageous. Anyone reading the Olivet Discourse in either Matthew or Mark in light of those false teachings would be totally confused and unable to understand what Christ is saying in terms of context. Those espousing the pre-trib baloney will no doubt be ill prepared spiritually and emotionally for what really happens and will begin to have doubts, their blood will be on the heads of the likes of LaHaye and the others pushing that drivel. I am not sure whats being taught, about rapture or whatever they are calling it. I see some talking about the destruction of the planet. Being taken away in a secret "rapture". I don't see anything called rapture, I do see Paul trying to comfort people struggling in affliction, and relating to those that died in the persecution and are now "asleep". He is trying to help them live in faith and love, and encourage and build up one another, which he says multiple times throughout the book especially 5:8-11 They based it on 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 But including the surrounding text for context. Chapter one he implored to have faith and steadfastness. Preached against idols. Delivery of Christ from wraith. Chapter 2 teaches to walk in Christ, persevere, overcome suffering (at the hands of the Romans and Greek/Asian culture), he talks about being driven out of Israel and the wrath inflicting upon Judea. Chapter three speaks of sending Timothy and the good news he reported to Paul, even in the affliction being comforted by their fail. He wants to increase their love in one another. This is Paul speaking to the Thessalonians: It does sound very symbolic, rather than literal. "cry of command", "voice of archangel", "sound of trumpet" "descend from heaven", "caught up together" "clouds in the air" To me, it sounds like a resurrection, rather than a rapture, v17 "so that we will always be with the lord". A reason for hope for the Thessalonians. Having read that in chapter 5, what does he say to do? Coming like "a thief", means that it will surprise, rather than be secret. which it says in verse 4. Be sober, have faith, love, hope, obtain salvation, encourage each other, build one another up, like we are already doing. The idea of left behind comes from If my memory serves me correct, if it is like the days of Noah, who actually was taken away in the flood? "Flood came and took them all away" was it the wicked, the ones left (Noah in the ark), those were The righteous people or the sinful people? To me, if it mirrors the days of Noah, one out of two will be left [righteous, like Noah and family] and one half will be taken like the ones destroyed. Maybe they forgot who was "left behind" in the story of Noah, and who was "taken". They try to equate the taken of Matthew with the those caught up, but even if that is the case, vs 19 of Thessalonians speaks of those left are the Righteous, "17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." So, those that are left behind are the righteous.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 8:27:55 GMT 8
Ressurection, yes exactly. You don't fine the word rapture anywhere in the bible, but you see the word tribulation everywhere. These false teachers have created that scenario having taken those scriptures you mention completely out of context. In Matthew 24 Jesus gives the apostles an overview of what is to come beginning with the destruction of Israel in 70 AD and the scattering of Jews (Diaspora) to the corners of the earth. He talks about all that is to happen over the next 2000 years and then He talks about the great tribulation of the church and all the people of the Book (Christians and Jews) and says there will be a falling away. (I suspect much of that is attributable to the false teachers) Revelation chapter 6: 9 - 11 backs this up:
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.
This is is the point which we might refer to the post tribulation rapture, but more accurately the resurrection followed by the wrath of God on those who refused Christ and followed the Anti-Christ. in Revelation 6: 12-17 12 When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, 13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale; 14 the sky vanished like a scroll that is rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the generals and the rich and the strong, and every one, slave and free, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, 16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; 17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand before it?”
Then Chapter 7: 9-14 9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?” 14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Christ clearly alludes to it In Matthew 24 and Mark 13
"For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will be." The holocaust horrible as it was, was just a practice run, this will be big, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, and even now we see the storm clouds on the near horizon.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 0:28:44 GMT 8
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 7:33:38 GMT 8
Ok so another jaba t someone I really love as a brother or sister. I don't care but for Shan. Ano9ther little jjab from a bad girl. I do love you "granny" Shan. But this is More or less Gnostic. But The Christ Consciousness is within us all. It isn't that hard to acesss. It is way above the conscious mind, the subconscious and the super conscious mind. The Christ Conscious to me and me alone( Shan my dear) is the whole meaning of hte holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. It is what Christ left us as a legacy. OK so I am back I will give a different view or opinion. But Yeshua died. His body is no more than what our bodies will be. But the blueprints live on. The Knights Templar wasn't just something for nothing. OK so I am going to shut up unless you want to here more. Yeshua lives on but in the way of consciousness. Living Christ? Christ was cricified and died on the cross. Even historical documents can back up that he was in two places at once on opposite riverbanks to his followers. This is pretty big in the paranrmal investigatvie world. Because Christ had no body but it was totally in Spirit. I will shut up now. becaus I don't want to fight or argue especially between two people I love and cherish as family but sometimes we have to have open minds to hear the true messages. Christ or Yeshua is not dead. But what we know of that Spirit is alive an well in us for those that lsiten. For those that have ears to hear. I said I would never come hear again. Sorry but something just made me want to write. But your ears to hear will only hear physical sounds, your mind can actually hear the lesson. Your eyes can see only phycail sights but your mind or your Psyche which is ancient Greek for Soul can see and hear all this. So curse me all you want. I will still love you all. Hurt my feelings all you want. I will still love you all. I should have never come her again but I chanced it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 7:57:27 GMT 8
Ok so another jaba t someone I really love as a brother or sister. I don't care but for Shan. Ano9ther little jjab from a bad girl. I do love you "granny" Shan. But this is More or less Gnostic. But The Christ Consciousness is within us all. It isn't that hard to acesss. It is way above the conscious mind, the subconscious and the super conscious mind. The Christ Conscious to me and me alone( Shan my dear) is the whole meaning of hte holy Ghost or Holy Spirit. It is what Christ left us as a legacy. OK so I am back I will give a different view or opinion. But Yeshua died. His body is no more than what our bodies will be. But the blueprints live on. The Knights Templar wasn't just something for nothing. OK so I am going to shut up unless you want to here more. Yeshua lives on but in the way of consciousness. Living Christ? Christ was cricified and died on the cross. Even historical documents can back up that he was in two places at once on opposite riverbanks to his followers. This is pretty big in the paranrmal investigatvie world. Because Christ had no body but it was totally in Spirit. I will shut up now. becaus I don't want to fight or argue especially between two people I love and cherish as family but sometimes we have to have open minds to hear the true messages. Christ or Yeshua is not dead. But what we know of that Spirit is alive an well in us for those that lsiten. For those that have ears to hear. I said I would never come hear again. Sorry but something just made me want to write. But your ears to hear will only hear physical sounds, your mind can actually hear the lesson. Your eyes can see only phycail sights but your mind or your Psyche which is ancient Greek for Soul can see and hear all this. So curse me all you want. I will still love you all. Hurt my feelings all you want. I will still love you all. I should have never come her again but I chanced it. Pretty good comments though Jamie. Let me add this, Jesus referred to himself as the firstborn of the dead, a new creation. After His resurrection he showed up by the lake and He and the fishermen sat down by the fire and ate some food, He ate with them. At another time when the apostles were cowering in the locked upper room for fear of what the authorities would do to them, Jesus walked right in through the closed door and Thomas didn't believe He was for real and Jesus exposed the Roman spear wound in His side and had Thomas feel it, and Thomas dropped to his knees and said, "My Lord and My God!" So Jesus does come to us in spirit and He also has a physical body that was dead and came back to life in which death has no power over anymore. The scriptures say somewhere that at the resurrection we will be transformed to become just like Him. With all my wounds, aches and pains of getting older that sounds like a great plan to me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 8:27:36 GMT 8
You are drawn into it Jamie. Of course you are. Why would we go after you? Drive you out? Nope. Poor thing now your scared to come in here. Relax. We dont bite. Not hard anyway.... But please dont be offended if in Biblical discussions we stay in our core beliefs. You arent going to change that, so no worries. So, Hi there
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