The great controversy- transfemales but not females?

[Deleted]

Jayce we need longer subject lines pleae dear if it is possible.

But is it really possible for us to leave behind the entirity of the male ness or our past lives and be women?

It is not my personal truth, but it may well be someone elses truth, and in this forum, I assure you both truths will be respected.

But what do you think about that?   I am mtf female wired physically, but not spiritually or mentally, that one takes a lot of explaining, nor is it me presentationally as presentation and social interaction is amazingly fluid,.... ask Ativan and Patty and Julie and Aisla.  They here 4 different voices, 4 different components of the trans diamond, they hear the ones similar to what sh'e hears in them, it is really fascinating to me.

However my core wiring is famale to the max, I would have a neo if it made sense, it does not but I would.  Funny, trinity loves neo.  HAH!!!!!!!!!!

But how about you my dears, what is your take on this physically, socially, at core. ?

Love to all here, nails out hair on heart on fire.  And FINALLY able to post on an mtf thread.    HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Taka]

hahaha...
i've transgressed into mtf forums and threads a whole many times in the past.

yeah, i would love to hear the answer to this question too.
does the old man just disappear in some? it's a fascinating thought that it's possible.
but really scary to me, i don't want to lose.. uh... myself. kind of. i'm sure both my male and female are me.

still, i suppose those who wish for this outcome and feel it's their true self, really would love for this to happen.
(we need to kidnap some more binary identified people so we can get more answers...)

[Laura J]

I remember that post before, it really moved me Suzanne..

I am so curious about what life would be like as a woman, yet in reality it makes me cringe a bit. I would love to put the male behind me, looking back it was such a source of confusion and misery, even now, I try not to think about it. But I also feel gender fluid, I do go back and forth between male and female thinking, and I need that flexibility in my physical self to match where ever I happen to be that day..

[Taka]

i haven't heard that story before, and i would have loved to read it again if i had.

that old mark sounds almost as weird as sooty. that thing has actually disappeared some times.
but maybe it really does have a similarity to the old me, because i too have problems understanding how that depressed girl even lived. seems almost like not me, though only aspects have disappeared, not the whole sense of femaleness.
or maybe it's the sense of femaleness that disappeared and took with it a whole lot of the girl as well.

someone please explain this non-binary thing to me again...
can't even explain myself properly because gender makes too little sense in binary terms.

[Deleted]

Nov 20, 2014 21:27:47 GMT 8 Taka said:

hahaha...
i've transgressed into mtf forums and threads a whole many times in the past.

yeah, i would love to hear the answer to this question too.
does the old man just disappear in some? it's a fascinating thought that it's possible.
but really scary to me, i don't want to lose.. uh... myself. kind of. i'm sure both my male and female are me.

still, i suppose those who wish for this outcome and feel it's their true self, really would love for this to happen.
(we need to kidnap some more binary identified people so we can get more answers...)

Count me with you there Taka, I know I can be a bit of an exhibitionist re: the cleavage photo and I think I did that more for peer acceptance in the former site for the sake of those who didn't know me initially when I started out as MtF, but when I reached somewhere around mid point of my trans life I shot a new tangental azimuth to the MtF course I had been on after an "OMG what am I doing moment", it was too late the die was cast in terms of my physiological changes but either way at this point now a foothold had been established mid way in my gender ID and I deal with what is with no regrets.. But like you I'm not willing to lose either part of who I am.

[Deleted]

Ah the old 'trans as a prefix to denote a state of being less than'. It's biological essentialism at its finest, that some how nothing can ever remove the stain of that extra chromosome from your life. Will have to look up to verify, but I'm very sure that recent studies have found that the extra chromosome in the pair has no real baring on how you develop, as well as the fact that there is almost limitless variety when it comes to chromosomal makeup and biological sex.

The cistem needs the world to believe that your physical sex is somehow immutable and unchangeable because it makes such a huge fuss about the differences between male and female.

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2014 23:10:01 GMT 8 @dreadfaery said:

Ah the old 'trans as a prefix to denote a state of being less than'. It's biological essentialism at its finest, that some how nothing can ever remove the stain of that extra chromosome from your life. Will have to look up to verify, but I'm very sure that recent studies have found that the extra chromosome in the pair has no real baring on how you develop, as well as the fact that there is almost limitless variety when it comes to chromosomal makeup and biological sex.

The cistem needs the world to believe that your physical sex is somehow immutable and unchangeable because it makes such a huge fuss about the differences between male and female.

It's become common knowledge now that various non hormonal medications, environmental contaminants and even the newly bioengineered foods we eat can and do effectively change DNA. The cistern can believe what they wish but even science has proven otherwise. One of the biggest controversies in the USA now is the DNA modifying contaminants in biologically engineered foods which the Europeans are so far wisely not allowing into their food chains. For example wheat grown here in Washington state: The soil is first treated with pesticides and then the bio engineered wheat germ is introduced which has had a DNA change to promote a great harvest yield. Then inorganic chemical fertilizers are applied to the soil to promote rapid growth. We all know that cattle and other livestock are being given growth hormones to produce more meat and milk, their food is now made of bioengineered wheat and corn, and people wonder why little girls 8 and 9 years of age are already developing breasts and coming into premature puberty when all of this is a part of our food chain?

[Patty]

Shantel you are correct and the growth hormone they use to feed the animals was DES after it was banned from human use.
Now back to topic IF I can organize my thoughts enough.I am very truly feminine in my presentation and in a large part my thoughts.Shoot, interrupted by a phone call from one of us I will call her back, now where was I.What was discovered after my meltdown and a hard swing to the female end of the spectrum I found he who had been my presentation for 63 years was still a very important part of my being.Yes I did live a double life since 18 but kept it so secret no one ever found out.She for all those years kept me sane. Now after 11 months on HRT the old masculine presentation and my true feminine presentation have merged into one composite human being .Not really male but still visible at times and not really female but very visible.A unique blend of the two sides controlled now by the feminine side but still very masculine at times (don't piss me off ). The realization that I was never really truly male came from therapy and my core .I will never be truly female either,that is impossible, close maybe and I can live with that. What it all boils down to is that I was never a "male" and will never be a true female even though my heart, soul and mind takes me that way.All that can be done is being done, my life is now lived the way it should have been all along as a full time and kinda ugly female but so what for the first time in my life I am at peace with myself and truly happy.I will always be a unique blend but this blend will have SRS if at all possible that is part of the compromise that had to be made to find peace. Patty

[Deleted]

I personally don't know how to explain it and very unusual that I am at a loss for words. Especially with my big mouth. I will try though. Everything male I tried ended up being a big failure. I tried. 4 years in the Army and the most miserable and stifling 4 years of my life. I tried football, even flag football and I still laugh at myself over that one. Cars? Oh yeah. Working on them not so much. Hunting? Every time I killed something I cried. Don't mind hunting just not for me. I always missed the shot on purpose.

DES? Maybe, but it feels deeper than that for me. I was a high risk pregnancy and born in '67 so who knows. Freak of nature? Yeah but I own that gladly. Transfemale? I don't know. I would say female but a transwoman. I perceive female as a way of thinking, emotions, intuition and so on. So female I guess I am according to those things but woman when it comes to the physical body. No. That is where the trans part for me comes in. Just my opinion but I think male and female are internal. Man and woman is external. Just my opinion though.

[Deleted]

I come from a very different place than most of you in terms of assessing my former self. I never had any female proclivities whatsoever in my youth, it wasn't until I was in my 20's fighting in a war as a paratrooper in SE Asia that I had a sudden twinge and wished that I was a woman far away from all of that death and destruction. That was the beginning for me and I stuffed that idea for many years as seemingly delusional thinking. But being the adventuresome type that I am I finally gave in to the unrelenting and exotic draw of the idea and I was damned sick and tired of living in that binary with all of the expectations that were needed to be met to be successful at it. I was never a shirker and was indeed good at it, but I was no longer happy and may never have really been happy, so I just did an end run around all of the usual standards and transitioned until I was at the point of no return. After a brief meltdown and a short de-transitional phase, I concluded that I really needed to follow through and get on with my life although full time woman would never fit my needs and I found my happy place as a non binary and androgynous presenting person.

[Deleted]

Nov 22, 2014 16:37:35 GMT 8 @suzanne said:

Nov 22, 2014 11:21:40 GMT 8 @jamie said:

I personally don't know how to explain it and very unusual that I am at a loss for words. Especially with my big mouth. I will try though. Everything male I tried ended up being a big failure. I tried. 4 years in the Army and the most miserable and stifling 4 years of my life. I tried football, even flag football and I still laugh at myself over that one. Cars? Oh yeah. Working on them not so much. Hunting? Every time I killed something I cried. Don't mind hunting just not for me. I always missed the shot on purpose.

DES? Maybe, but it feels deeper than that for me. I was a high risk pregnancy and born in '67 so who knows. Freak of nature? Yeah but I own that gladly. Transfemale? I don't know. I would say female but a transwoman. I perceive female as a way of thinking, emotions, intuition and so on. So female I guess I am according to those things but woman when it comes to the physical body. No. That is where the trans part for me comes in. Just my opinion but I think male and female are internal. Man and woman is external. Just my opinion though.

I never was good at male stuff, didn't fit me, I pulled it off tho but that was just very good acting and copying I found out. It never felt natural.
And I tried everything, included the extremes. It lasted for more then 45 years tho. Then I broke down bigtime.
So your'e not alone in this, and don't push this stuff too hard, the cost of that can be high.

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2014 0:11:07 GMT 8 Shan said:

I come from a very different place than most of you in terms of assessing my former self. I never had any female proclivities whatsoever in my youth, it wasn't until I was in my 20's fighting in a war as a paratrooper in SE Asia that I had a sudden twinge and wished that I was a woman far away from all of that death and destruction. That was the beginning for me and I stuffed that idea for many years as seemingly delusional thinking. But being the adventuresome type that I am I finally gave in to the unrelenting and exotic draw of the idea and I was damned sick and tired of living in that binary with all of the expectations that were needed to be met to be successful at it. I was never a shirker and was indeed good at it, but I was no longer happy and may never have really been happy, so I just did an end run around all of the usual standards and transitioned until I was at the point of no return. After a brief meltdown and a short de-transitional phase, I concluded that I really needed to follow through and get on with my life although full time woman would never fit my needs and I found my happy place as a non binary and androgynous presenting person.

I tried for four years Shan. After about the first 6 months that's when I knew. Then I had three and a half more years of faking it. But with me, I think it was more of a test to see if I could be a guy. Not actually trying to be a guy. I guess it was something I felt I had to at least try. It just more or less reinforced the notion that I wasn't normal in the way of society and male and female. First day after I ETSed was like the clouds parted and the sun shined down. I could then be me.

[LivingTheDream]

Outwardly, I was all boy growing up. Wrestling, hockey, baseball, football, bowling, all things I loved and still do. When I was not in school, chances are I was doing one of those activities. I'd say I was pretty good at them. Things started to change when I got a bit older though. My guy friends all wanted to go work out, box, play tackle football, and I didn't. I didn't wanna get all big and buff, and while I love football, I don't wanna play tackle; didn't wanna get hurt or hurt someone else. Also around this time, they started doing more mixed things, guys and gals. Wasn't one of the guys really and definitely wasn't one of the gals either. People started dating a bit, and while attracted to girls, was never comfortable w/ myself, and no way in hell was I ever gonna make the first move, so ya, imagine how that turns out lol.

Had more time and resources on my hands now so went a step farther crossdressing whenever I could. Became much more withdrawn and secretive, afraid to be found out. To keep this somewhat short lol, will skip ahead by saying things just kept progressing forward in that direction and continue to do so.

So that's me. Seen as a guy but really not seen as one at the same time, not seen as a woman that I've always secretly wanted to be and don't act super girly cuz have 30 years of guy history learned behaviors that have become part of me. I'm a mutt, a mix of both I say. So at the moment, I like the term tomboy for me.

I continue along, going forward, slowly. Some things will change, somethings I must change, somethings I refuse to change. He will never be gone completely because he is me, in part. Would like to blend as much as possible, ofc, but won't, can't, become fake to do so.

Wonder if this makes any sense lol..

[Deleted]

LivingThe Dream. I think you make a lot of sense. Maybe more than you will ever know especially about that last part. Now for one of my little tirades about society.

I really think everyone has both male and female inside them. OMG how many times a long while back I heard the story pertaining to males and connecting with their female side. Nothing against all my brothers out there. I think we are more connected to ourselves than the rest of society is. I just think most cis people see themselves truly as their physical bodies dictate them, even if they feel other feelings. I have seen some guys that had more maternal instinct than some women. And I have seen some women that were actually more masculine but still identified as cis. Most people don't know what cis gender is but they still see themselves as women even though their competitiveness falls in the same intensity as males. Or male if they are even more nurturing than genetic female. Without getting all spiritual or religious, please let me know if I am breaking any rules. But every religion or spiritual sect except for one and they have every bit the freedom to live the way they see fit, seeks to rise above the physical body and live according to the Spirit or Psyche or whatever else anyone calls it. Even if you are an atheist and don't believe in anything after this life but still living and modeling your life by what is inside of you, then that is very noble. Especially since you are doing it without any promise of reward. I believe in reincarnation so there is something of a reward waiting at the end. Maybe. :-/ If there is a heaven or hell then I am truly not worthy of the heaven part. But I still live by what is inside and try to project that outside. No matter what is on the outside.

I really hope all of that makes sense. Yes I suffer sometimes. But I do believe we are truly special. I believe in evolution and just have this nagging feeling that we may be just the beginning. When change does come in society it is usually a painful ordeal for the first ones. I think we accept it no matter the pain it causes us. Everyone else just can't see. We aren't blind. We aren't scared by what is inside of us. We face it head on. We pretty much have no choice because the feelings are sometimes way too strong. Society tells us one thing and we know another, so in my opinion we are stronger than most in society.

BTW, Jamie is just as crazy as jess was.  

[Deleted]

Nov 21, 2014 23:10:01 GMT 8 @dreadfaery said:

Ah the old 'trans as a prefix to denote a state of being less than'. It's biological essentialism at its finest, that some how nothing can ever remove the stain of that extra chromosome from your life. Will have to look up to verify, but I'm very sure that recent studies have found that the extra chromosome in the pair has no real baring on how you develop, as well as the fact that there is almost limitless variety when it comes to chromosomal makeup and biological sex.

The cistem needs the world to believe that your physical sex is somehow immutable and unchangeable because it makes such a huge fuss about the differences between male and female.

I never saw transferable as less than. I saw it as more than.