Dani
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Post by Dani on Oct 22, 2015 5:47:39 GMT 8
does this mean progesterone can essentially 'crowd out' so to speak and use estrogen receptors that would normally be used by the Estradiol? And if this can happen, would an increase in Estradiol dosage be sort of futile unless there was a decrease in Progesterone?
I just wanted to know that with my new increase of E, I'm not wasting it by any possible interference of the Progesterone. In a vague way I remember reading somewhere that Progesterone does indeed compete for ER's, Luv, Dani Hi EchelonHunt, thanks so much for the time it took to address this. It has been a long time since posting an important (to me) question on a forum and I should have know better than to give this much foundational info, silly me, oh well. At the time of posting I kind of knew I should have left out the whole cis male/cis female comparison thing so as to keep answers as narrow as possible. A tricky task to post correct yet quickly, because I've found that when I do not provide extra info, the ensuing posts try to fill in the gaps. So I erased all the non-essential 'stuff' hoping to narrow this down and then I am going to ask in a different way. OK, so here is a no frills attempt at the same question: Has anyone who is already seeing good results from Estradiol, notice a decrease in these positive results once Progesterone was added? Jeez, how's that for trimming fat off a question. (oh and the bold is not yelling, just make it easier to draw attention) I suppose I should mention why I posted this prior my dr.'s appointment. I'm not sure if this is just in my head and all imagination or what, but it seems like my facial look seems more masculine after four months of progesterone. Part of me is saying "oh so what, top growth is really taking off and so is the buttocks, and mood is stable. I suppose I may have read something (like I mentioned way above) about a slight reversal and it stuck somewhere in my bean brain. Well thanks again EchelonHunt and Trinity. Maybe I should take advice a friend gave me years ago "Dont fret, unless you play guitar" You all still have my Dani
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 6:33:13 GMT 8
I liked Ativan's post a lot, I actually know nothing about this...
My experience is basically what it feels like to have a hormone blip and lose my skull over it.
I was steered away from projesterone by my endo - and by the way I have bad physical dysphoria - anyway I wont go near it personally for a couple reasons. First I dont know what it will do to my already slightly unstable emotional mind, second once its done I dont want my balloons to deflate. I want virgin breasts personally, especially at my age, the elasticity is going and I need things to point up not sideways when I lie down.
Having said that, turning the tables here, whatever nutricianal breast and anti aging secrets you may have I could surely use. I'm not getting sirred alone, I am also getting senior discounts without asking. Now most guys would be delighted, but ya know what, I'd pay the full price to be mistaken for a 30 or 40 year old right now.
Oh the delights of trans. Yeah I said guy. If they did it when I was presenting girl I'd really be heart broken.
If I thought my face was getting more masculine ... I couldn't handle that thought darling, I am sure that hurts, maybe its just perception and you are just as pretty as you always were and are.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Oct 22, 2015 10:27:46 GMT 8
does this mean progesterone can essentially 'crowd out' so to speak and use estrogen receptors that would normally be used by the Estradiol? And if this can happen, would an increase in Estradiol dosage be sort of futile unless there was a decrease in Progesterone?
Has anyone who is already seeing good results from Estradiol, notice a decrease in these positive results once Progesterone was added I found this - "Excessive progesterone in relation to estrogen can reduce some beneficial estrogen effects by downregulating estrogen receptors."From HRT - About ProgesteroneAs long as you have a low-normal HRT dose of progesterone joined with a high level of estradiol, I don't see anything wrong with adding progesterone to your system. It's where it exceeds the dose of estradiol is where I'd be concerned from what above states. Hope this helps.
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Dani
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Dani began a new chemical journey on 6-25-2014
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Post by Dani on Oct 22, 2015 12:12:26 GMT 8
does this mean progesterone can essentially 'crowd out' so to speak and use estrogen receptors that would normally be used by the Estradiol? And if this can happen, would an increase in Estradiol dosage be sort of futile unless there was a decrease in Progesterone?
Has anyone who is already seeing good results from Estradiol, notice a decrease in these positive results once Progesterone was added I found this - "Excessive progesterone in relation to estrogen can reduce some beneficial estrogen effects by downregulating estrogen receptors."From HRT - About ProgesteroneAs long as you have a low-normal HRT dose of progesterone joined with a high level of estradiol, I don't see anything wrong with adding progesterone to your system. It's where it exceeds the dose of estradiol is where I'd be concerned from what above states. Hope this helps. Thank you, thank you, thank you, this is almost exactly what I was 'sort of' thinking. Part from memory, part recent searches. From everything I've read even before this new area of interest, I am of the understanding that my 200mg/day of prometrium for the last 5 months is low in relation to my estrogen. I think that on Nov. 6th when I see my Dr. I will let her know that sneakiy suspicion about maybe sliding backwards a hair (I still do not even know, my mind plays tricks on me sometimes) and that I may cut the prometrium out of my hrt for a time in order to note the difference. And yes, as Trinity said, I liked your answers as well. Thank goodness there is a place to do this and still have a modicum of leeway in what we can ask. Thanks Much. Dani
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Dani
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Dani began a new chemical journey on 6-25-2014
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Post by Dani on Oct 22, 2015 13:55:17 GMT 8
I liked Ativan's post a lot, I actually know nothing about this...
My experience is basically what it feels like to have a hormone blip and lose my skull over it.
I was steered away from projesterone by my endo - and by the way I have bad physical dysphoria - anyway I wont go near it personally for a couple reasons. First I dont know what it will do to my already slightly unstable emotional mind, second once its done I dont want my balloons to deflate. I want virgin breasts personally, especially at my age, the elasticity is going and I need things to point up not sideways when I lie down.
Having said that, turning the tables here, whatever nutricianal breast and anti aging secrets you may have I could surely use. I'm not getting sirred alone, I am also getting senior discounts without asking. Now most guys would be delighted, but ya know what, I'd pay the full price to be mistaken for a 30 or 40 year old right now.
Oh the delights of trans. Yeah I said guy. If they did it when I was presenting girl I'd really be heart broken.
If I thought my face was getting more masculine ... I couldn't handle that thought darling, I am sure that hurts, maybe its just perception and you are just as pretty as you always were and are. Ahhhhh Trinity, you are still the dear one that I remember. Before I go into answering your post, I do have something I would like to say, and believe me this is not one of those 'I need to say something nice things that I've seen so many times in the past, at other internet islands. It has to do with what your dysphoria is telling you when you look into the mirror, any negative idea you may be getting is certainly not what I can see. I see beauty, very nice skin, eyes that speak of that same kindness you have shown more than once before, facial structure to die for, and that overall slimness of upper body that says woman loud and clear, something I wish to attain myself someday. I had bouts that resulted in avoiding a mirror at all cost, but I am learning to be honest with myself and it feels good. Well I wanted that to be said first, now to the rest. In regards to the breasts, well I think I'll be ok, the buds that eventually formed were of a size I have not read about in the forums, they are of good size, somewhere in the neighborhood of a half dollar (hmmm, half dollar, will not be long before that will not be known by many). It took forever for them to get that large and I was beginning to think actual outward growth was not going to happen. Well the outward growth just started and they feel pretty firm, with a small amount of jiggle. I dont know how I know it but I dont think stopping the progesterone will cause them to sag, and I guess being almost 65, it may not matter . I work hard on my property so I am in very good physical shape, I just brought in 7 cords of firewood, plant trees almost daily, so I'm a working country woman I guess. It's kinda weird, my mind is strong with a capital S, yet at times, it is fragile with a capital F. Sometimes so much so that I can see through to that bad place where everything could disintegrate into nothing, I just choose to avoid and conquer with my newfound emotional self. I have noticed a leveling out with the progesterone, and catch myself smiling at nothing in particular. Breast tips? Well I have a couple (I could not resist). I've found a few actually, I spent who knows how many countless hours searching till my fingers were shorter. Making sure that whatever I adopted into my own personal routine was backchecked very well. 1. Ultra Pure Olive Oil, do NOT buy any in the regular grocery store, instead go to a specialty store for this item. If there was any one item for all over health, this is it, but for breast health/growth, it cannot be beat, at least from what I've seen. 2. High quality Salmon and/or Tuna, not cooked but rather canned at the peak of its freshness. The oils from the olive has the ability to aid the body in metabolizing proteins, AND this same fat is just waiting to get deposited into fat cells. The fish is something like 148 on the protein completeness scale, and developing breasts need full spectrum protein. 3. Drink lots of water, this is critical in the metabolization process. 4. Learn (yes, it takes actual learning) to get as close to 7 or 8 hours of sleep every night. Metabolic processes switch tracks and function during sleep. 5. Some form of relaxation technique, yoga etc. This one is absolutely essential, it is the formation of your bodies armies against that huge enemy, free radicals, using by the way the formidable polyphenols in the olive oil. 5. Nuts, you can find these just about anywhere you walk these days (sorry, did it again). 6. Exercise. 7. Bee Pollen. I have not added this one yet, I am still researching it, but it looks promising. Last but not least, try to use very little natural foods that have phyto estrogens, they will compete with hrt estradiol. Even if one ignored all breast issues altogether, the above things would insure top shelf health. As to my comment about seeing a masculine change, well.....it could very well be in my mind, it definately is not something that I know I see. Rather it is probably my crazy little mind doing what it does best, going into tilt mode . And the pretty remark, well you and everyone here have that piece of my heart that only a person attracted to a place like this can give. Love Always, Dani
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Post by Dani on Oct 22, 2015 14:19:08 GMT 8
I think it falls under the same thing as receptors that stuff like depression fall under. Which deal with the hormones associated with them. There are how many hormones and receptors for them? Yah you'd think there'd be something specific, I do as well. But even in the much studied realm of depression, there are so many variables to take into account, different ways that different levels interact, even the different ways receptors react in efficiency, number and size, there are very hard to find definitive answers. I've looked until I have given up on the answers for the depression side of the story, as well as the ones that we deal with the most as trans. Most of the information out there are studies done for cis woman, and some of it cam be interpreted to trans, some extrapolated, but it's not definitive. My Dr is multiple PhD who publishes her own results for her studies with trans and related, and those publications are full of references to yet other ones that can be and are dated in amount and accuracy of information. Much of the discussions that are centered around how it all works are pretty much seat of the pants flying through cloudy information. I think compiled information of peoples varied experiences can give just as accurate information and in a lot of ways, there's more of it there. It takes grant money to get most studies off the ground, more once initial information is presented and even then, you have to find a large enough group of people willing to hand out grant money to get studies done. It's really why you find studies that seem to be repeated over and over, because of interests in one area over another, despite that they have more than enough information and can move on to other things. It comes down to who has control over the money in most cases. Like right now, it's really easy to get grant money for studies dealing with brain scans, a popular thing that seems to hold more interest for now. Information gleamed from one study or series of scans can and is used to compile an incomplete answer to yet other questions, until there is direct interest and backing, those scans won't happen for more specific studies. Look at the references for a lot of information and you can see ho much of it comes from other loosely related work done at some other time. Go look at wikiwhatever and check the references under most everything and you find a lot of very dated and suspect sources of information. Even the SOC is like that, it's based on a lot of different findings, it's a standard of care, not a scientific paper, but it's based on a lot of published studies and those are based on what can be very dated information. It's always in flux and in need of revision as new and better information becomes available, it's just a matter of if and when it does become available. I have publish information that is based on other information and it has been used for yet others information, on totally unrelated things, but the process is the same. it takes some really groundbreaking stuff to be able to even get studies going, and my work was considered just that at the time, but the further studies I wanted to do were turned down in favor of different ones that were competitive by colleagues in the very same building. I left the industry over that and also what my work was used for, not what I had intended it to be used for. It's that kind of a dog eat dog world in competitive scientific studies. Most of it is done by undergrads in colleges, with DoD backing. Our military industrial complex spend more money than any other field out there. The scientific world has a way of slowly moving around in pretty much a big series of circles that just kinda spiral up in real world applications, it moves up generally when someone actually hits on something big or groundbreaking and then that holds attention until it either settles back into the groove or unless the next big thing comes along. Some very smart people can easily lose their tenure because they missed out on getting enough grant money for their projects. Right now, trans is the darling of the media that depends on ad money to exist, we're still just a blip in the sciences, but that blip is getting bigger each year, so... So very very true, every word. This brings months and months of exhaustive searching back into focus, oh how well these words ring in my ear. Well Said! And thanks for the extensive time devoted to this answer. I really forgot how much I liked coming here, my life amped up so much that it consumed every little bit of my time. The time will come when I can settle into choosing what I want to do and when I do it. Thanks, Dani
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 17:59:47 GMT 8
That was sweet Dani.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Oct 22, 2015 22:51:20 GMT 8
1. Ultra Pure Olive Oil, do NOT buy any in the regular grocery store, instead go to a specialty store for this item. If there was any one item for all over health, this is it, but for breast health/growth, it cannot be beat, at least from what I've seen. 2. High quality Salmon and/or Tuna, not cooked but rather canned at the peak of its freshness. The oils from the olive has the ability to aid the body in metabolizing proteins, AND this same fat is just waiting to get deposited into fat cells. The fish is something like 148 on the protein completeness scale, and developing breasts need full spectrum protein. 3. Drink lots of water, this is critical in the metabolization process. 4. Learn (yes, it takes actual learning) to get as close to 7 or 8 hours of sleep every night. Metabolic processes switch tracks and function during sleep. 5. Some form of relaxation technique, yoga etc. This one is absolutely essential, it is the formation of your bodies armies against that huge enemy, free radicals, using by the way the formidable polyphenols in the olive oil. 5. Nuts, you can find these just about anywhere you walk these days (sorry, did it again). 6. Exercise. 7. Bee Pollen. I have not added this one yet, I am still researching it, but it looks promising. Last but not least, try to use very little natural foods that have phyto estrogens, they will compete with hrt estradiol. Even if one ignored all breast issues altogether, the above things would insure top shelf health. As to my comment about seeing a masculine change, well.....it could very well be in my mind, it definitely is not something that I know I see. Rather it is probably my crazy little mind doing what it does best, going into tilt mode . And the pretty remark, well you and everyone here have that piece of my heart that only a person attracted to a place like this can give. Love Always, Dani This is pretty much the basis of what I have found as well. I use extra virgin olive oil always, I don't know how that compares to ultra pure, it's been some time since I actually looked into this, maybe the standards have changed, regardless, olive oil at it's best is so good for you, it wouldn't hurt to just take a couple swigs from the bottle as you go to use it in the ways that you can, it is versatile and easily replaces so many other kinds of things that are in a 'normal' diet. I have bottles made up with various herbs in the bottles, I like my rosemary with a little basil, both fresh and pressed a little before adding the olive oil, flavored oil for cooking, but can easily replace salad dressings that if you look at the store brands list of ingredients, you should know enough to put them back on the store shelf you picked it up from. I don't use any dressing myself, I prefer to use a spice grinder and have a few with the combinations of herbs that I like, sometimes splash a little balsamic vinegar on top and there it is. We grow our own greens, quite a bit of our vegetables and herbs in our year round greenhouse, but you can find organically grown ones in most good stores as well. They are worth the price, especially if you are getting up there in years, and if you are young and want to not have that 'past the expiration date' that too many of us older people got from the era's we grew up in. I miss out on the fish and seafood unfortunately, it always looks so good, but I can hardly be around it, the smell can sometimes set off a mild reaction, maybe a learned thing because I simply cannot eat it without risking a strong allergic reaction. It's always been there, I test it out every so often and still wish I hadn't most every time, still haven't outgrown that one yet, lol. Drink when you are thirsty, even just a little thirsty, pay attention to what your body is telling you, it needs water and western culture and stamina usually leaves us with less than we should be drinking. Most of mine has been run through a RO filter system, but that's just me, that strips away everything from the water and it becomes tasteless but I know it's at least filtered out any bad, but it also filters out anything good that adds to the taste, which is actually pretty good out here in the country. And nuts, check into those, there are so many good things from different kinds, huge benefits from them, even a couple handfuls a day can make a big difference. A healthy body is going to use whatever form of HRT you use so much better, especially if you are getting good exercise of some kind, just walking alone boosts your immune systems and gives you time to meditate or practice mindfulness, a very good way to drop anxiety levels down, a common thing in a lot of trans peoples dysphoria, whether social or physical, it seems like we have higher rates than the general population from what I read, but it makes no difference, meditation and/or mindfulness go hand in hand and take the stress levels down by degrees related to just how much you can spend time doing these things. To busy and stressed out to find time? Find the time and you'll bring those stressed out levels down to where you'll have the time, just do it, if you're not, the benefits far outweigh whatever you think you may be gaining by being out of time from an overdone stressed out day. Seriously, just relax, stress will age you as fast as anything else and it ages you faster than you should be. All these things are pretty essential and there's always more it seems, I have no clue about bee pollen, I really don't, but look into these kinds of things, there seems to always be things you can be doing to make yourself healthier and you do have to be if you want any HRT regime to reap the benefits you want to get from it. Quit smoking, or you'll be looking at problems like I went through and still am, had to have a damn stent put in so I can go longboarding, my exercise and as it turns out, a way to find a level of meditation that suites the way I think or maybe just approach things. My therapists and psychologists are always checking on me to make sure that I am at least working on it, and I do, a lot. I wish I had focused on it more when I was younger, I had the times where I could have done better with idleness of waiting or resting until the next thing I needed to do came up. I did in a lot of ways, but there are even better ways that people have found to approach the very same things. My gosh, this thread turned into a discussion that is needed and I hope it keeps going, there are so many better ways to live, the little things count, they easily add up and override the big things, at the least make them well worth the effort put into those. My cynical comment about how hard it is to find quality information is busted, it's true in a lot of ways, but in a few short comments this thread is turned around from that cynicism and just goes to show that we can find better ways, better information, even if it isn't exactly what we hoped to find, there are those things that if as a group or as individuals, we'll find what we need and hopefully more. Don't thank me, thank you Dani and Echelon, a little good information goes a long ways in helping us all, more than my cynical attitude towards the lack of direct information we can all use and need. Keep digging, our lives revolve around hormones whether we take them as replacements or just take care of the ones we all have, our bodies and minds as we want and desire them to be deserve the best, as trans we are taking a journey that isn't well charted and is different for each of us, stopping in at this little port of call is one of the places we can share what we know, what we find on the journey's of a lifetime of commitment to simply being who we are. Humbly put in a better frame of mind, it 's another good day to go for a walk back to that hill I can concentrate on weaving back and forth while rolling on little wheels down it, only to have to walk back up and do it over again, better each time going down, better use of mindfulness walking back up. It's going to be a good day, it always is when I'm doing what I want to do, when I want to. Don't spend a lifetime, earn one instead. Ativan
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Dani
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Post by Dani on Oct 23, 2015 4:45:30 GMT 8
OK, first I got the name wrong, it is Ultra Premium not Ultra Pure, here is just two addys to help inform until I can come back and explain, I'm busy replacing all new fire brick in my woodstove, just finished with the new stove pipe. The first addy is where I buy my olive oil and it has a nice expanation about Ultra Premium etc., what I'm buying at present is Coratina. I do not cook "yet" (another story), what I do with the olive oil is use it exclusively for its medicinal properties for my health and to aid in my HT. I take 3 tablespoons all in one dose for its polyphenols (at the moment Coratina has the highest), there is a breakdown of each oil on the site. Right after I "chase" it with 2 tablespoons of their Aged Basalmic Vinegar, this eases the potency of taste from the oil, cuts it immediately and it's nice and sweet. I take both of these once a day, especially trying not to forget on the three days after injection of my E. I swear my boobs and butt are dancing for joy when I see those bottles from Drizzle. www.drizzletastingroom.com This next addy is a general info page on high quality olive oil. www.oliveoiltimes.com I know this sounds crazy, but some olive oils on the store shelf that says "Extra Virgin Olive Oil" is not even olive oil, but rather other oils in place of it. There are many active lawsuits. Dani
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2015 7:18:50 GMT 8
Oh there are so many ways we should be taking care of ourselves and don't, I bet.
The little things. A phone call with a special one, a random flower, a simple smile at the right moment to ease a persons pain, just be showing you cared enough to smile because they were there.
In this trans life, I usually feel alone in a crowd, this is where I feel I belong, and now there are others like me, and instant bonding. For we all know very well what it is like to be transgender.
Tonight in my now lonely apartment, where depression can come in like mist, I will think of this thread, and try to take care of myself in the littlest things.
I think I'll epilate my legs, but I will bring a candle in there. Even living in a basement, in a funny parallel to the life I expected in a crash and burn of trans, but instead, it is a gift....maybe I can bring some folk music.
Beautiful avatar there, Dani girl.
Fairy wings are spread, sh'e is watching Dani fly. Let her fly, my dear ones, lets watch her fly.
Trinity
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Post by Dani on Oct 23, 2015 10:08:09 GMT 8
Oh there are so many ways we should be taking care of ourselves and don't, I bet. The little things. A phone call with a special one, a random flower, a simple smile at the right moment to ease a persons pain, just be showing you cared enough to smile because they were there. In this trans life, I usually feel alone in a crowd, this is where I feel I belong, and now there are others like me, and instant bonding. For we all know very well what it is like to be transgender. Tonight in my now lonely apartment, where depression can come in like mist, I will think of this thread, and try to take care of myself in the littlest things. I think I'll epilate my legs, but I will bring a candle in there. Even living in a basement, in a funny parallel to the life I expected in a crash and burn of trans, but instead, it is a gift....maybe I can bring some folk music. Beautiful avatar there, Dani girl. Fairy wings are spread, sh'e is watching Dani fly. Let her fly, my dear ones, lets watch her fly. Trinity Beautiful, just beautiful I am heading right now to fill my tub and light my candles. Learning to live, learning to love. Dani P.S. I'll come back to watch the vid, but right now I cannot figure out why I've lost my pc audio. Time to soak.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Oct 23, 2015 11:43:39 GMT 8
That's so very true about the quality of olive oil, just cause the label say's.. I remember reading that same kind of stuff before, the cheap stuff is always questionable, but it might be OK, I've gotten ripped off before, open the bottle and it just isn't right. Coratina sounds familiar enough, I'll hafta check those links, the one sounds good, the other one sounds like good info. Never hurts to brush up on this kind of stuff. I've been using olive oil for so long now, I can't remember the brand names that I used and would even have to go look to see what's in the cupboard right now. Any vinegar is good for stabilizing blood pH, a little goes a long ways. Drinking some, even diluted can help with clogged up sinus's as well, a problem I have once in awhile, the vapors getting to them changes the pH again, allows mucus to flow instead of stopping up and backing up into sinus cavities. I'll even snort a few drops, it's not as bad as you'd think, but it does give you a moment to pause and wonder why you did that, lol. Pickle juice will keep you smelling dill for an hour or so, I kinda like that.
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Dani
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Dani began a new chemical journey on 6-25-2014
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Gender: Female wings unfolded, flight is now my nature.
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Dani
Dani began a new chemical journey on 6-25-2014
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Female wings unfolded, flight is now my nature.
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Post by Dani on Oct 23, 2015 23:11:22 GMT 8
Just one additional note in regards to the grocery store olive oil, I found that expense means nothing, and the label means nothing. When I shopped around for my first bottle I went to the health/food co-op store, scanned all the labels, decided that I would go with that old maxim "you get what you pay for." Well I settled on what appeared to be the best that could be obtained. Once home I thought ok, let's see just how amazing this is going to be and looked up that particular brand online to get the statistics for polyphenols, SHOCK!!!! The first links to pop up had something to do with a lawsuit. ???? Come to find out it was blatant lies on the label and it was not even olive oil, it had olive oil in it but the major ingredient was canola oil!!!! Not even listed on the label. Further searching revealed that the olive oil industry has active lawsuits with 'many' labeled brands on our supermarket shelves at this very moment. I wrote the link down went back the the store, filled them in on all the corroborative websites that outline this practice and recieved a refund. It was this experience that led to the knowledge that the only verifiable outlet for getting quality ultra premium olive oil that will also guarantee the pick date, all break down rates of ingredients and percentages is a specialty store. I think you will find the Drizzle link to give verifiable results in the quickest and easiest to understand manner.
I'll leave this up to you and what you think best, to keep these posts here where they show relevancy to hormone use, or begin to put any further posts elsewhere (I have not scanned every place here but it may be more appropriate in a food or nutrition thread. Have a great day everyone. Dani
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2015 7:10:32 GMT 8
Well I guess with 11 1/2 pages of posts I'm gonna figure no one knows this answer, so I'll return to the ole google machine and try different routes. Thanks Anyways, Dani I don't think there will be a such thing as a clear-cut answer to the questions you are asking, it is something that is not frequently studied so the specifics of your questions aren't going to be fully answered. That may be something you might have to accept. I think even the experts in the field wouldn't be able to give 100% definitive answers. There are some things that just cannot be explained away by cold hard scientific facts, yes, even science will come up short, hit a roadblock, have doctors scratching their head mindlessly. Hormones and genetics is one of those things that is like a slippery slope. We do not know everything there is to know about hormones and genetics. There are even parts inside the brain that remain a total medical mystery. However, I did find the following, whether it helps or not is the big question. "This Australian and American study compared 112 male to female transsexuals to 258 control males. They looked at genes for androgen receptor, estrogen receptor beta, and aromatase. No differences were found for the estrogen receptor or aromatase, but transsexuals had longer repeat lengths for the androgen receptor allele.
“This study provides evidence that male gender identity might be partly mediated through the androgen receptor.” "A small Austrian study found an association between gender dysphoria and a different gene related to converting progesterone into androgens. Nobody else has looked at this gene."
"Three studies found no difference in the gene for androgen receptor, including one study of over 400 trans women.
III. An Italian study that looked at the Y chromosome found no differences between trans women and control males.
IV. An Austrian study that looked at sex chromosomes in trans women and trans men found no significant abnormalities.
V. A Japanese study that looked at genes related to estrogen receptor alpha and progesterone receptor found no differences between the genes of male to female transsexuals and male controls or the genes of female to male transsexuals and female controls. This study also looked at estrogen receptor β, androgen receptor, and CYP19A1 and found no differences for those genes either; this is one of the studies discussed above.
VI. An Austrian study of a gene related to steroid 5-alpha reductase (SRD5A2) found no differences between trans women, trans men, and male and female controls. SRD5A2 is involved in the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone.
It is important to remember that there may be some other genetic variations that are linked to gender dysphoria in trans women, something that we haven’t studied yet.""This Japanese study compared 74 male-to-female transsexuals, 168 female-to-male transsexuals, 106 male controls, and 169 female controls. They looked at genes for androgen receptor, estrogen receptors alpha and beta, aromatase, and progesterone receptor.
They found no differences between the genes of male to female transsexuals and male controls or the genes of female to male transsexuals and female controls.
“The present findings do not provide any evidence that genetic variants of sex hormone-related genes confer individual susceptibility to MTF or FTM transsexualism.”"This study looked at a different gene from the other studies, CYP17. CYP17 encodes cytochrome, an enzyme involved in converting progesterone and pregnenolone into androgens.
The authors found that a particular mutation of this gene, CYP17 −34 T>C, was associated with female to male transsexualism, but not male to female transsexualism.
They also found that, “the CYP17 −34 T>C allele distribution was gender-specific among controls. The MtF transsexuals had an allele distribution equivalent to male controls, whereas the FtM transsexuals did not follow the gender-specific allele distribution of female controls but rather had an allele distribution equivalent to MtF transsexuals and male controls.”
In other words, trans men and trans women were similar to male controls and not female controls.
They point out, however, that there were women without gender dysphoria who had the mutant allele as well as women with gender dysphoria who did not have it. “Thus, carriage of the mutant CYP17 T−34C SNP C allele is neither necessary nor sufficient for developing transsexualism.”
In other words, there must be other genetic or environmental factors involved."From weblink, Genes & Gender DysphoriaI hope it helps somewhat. "In other words, there bust be other genetic or environmental factors involved."
Well Duhhhh..... Maybe something that they havn't discovered yet. Maybe something way deeper than genetics or psychology perhaps? I do have something for them that do the studies. Stop asking why, but for what reason? To me there is an endless abundance of things involved. Environment. Maybe that baby doll my mom bought me for christmas when I was three along with the toy motorcycle that I could ride with a helmet to match. I was drawn to the doll. Just seemed more natural for me. I truly think there is way more to it than just genetics, environmental socialization and psychology involved. Yes these things can pretty much make up a person's whole personality but there is always something deeper. Maybe just who we are. There is nothing wrong with a third, fourth and fifth gender. I don't think it is a process of discovery as muc as a process of acceptance.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Oct 24, 2015 13:01:42 GMT 8
Jamie, there's a lot of "Well, duh!" moments when I read that article.
I find it most disturbing that they want genetics to define sexual orientation as well as gender identity and gender dysphoria. To me, that is excessive.
It seems like good arsenal to shove studies at the naysayers and say "Look! Studies validate my identity as being real, screw you!" But the thing is, studies can be dismissed as BS. People have the freedom to believe and dismiss whatever they like.
They say "most" transmen are attracted to women because "genetics". In a nutshell, I am a transman but I'm asexual. I don't appreciate being held under the assumption that because I'm a transman, I must be hetereosexual.
It's sort of like that assumption that all transgender people turn out gay. It's simply not true. Gay as in happy? If that's the case, then yeah!
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