Inclusion Vs. Exclusion Among The Community

[EchelonHunt]

This topic will no doubt spark debate but as always, we must remain respectful of each other's views and opinions even if we do not like or agree with them.

I will be adding my thoughts on this much later but feel free to begin the discussion.

Have you felt included or excluded by the LGBTQIA community, both online or offline? If so, when? What happened? If excluded, how did you feel? Was there a community that did include you? Have you seen others excluded?

[Deleted]

Events are currently ongoing and it would be inappropriate to expound at this time.
There has since been a change in venue as I have concluded my ties with the former place and all is well with my soul! 

[Taka]

the old bara forums on adultforumhost, were very including. mostly gay guys, but of the greatest kind. people on the bara chat are also good. i wonder if i explained i'm nb though, maybe i didn't. but i asked to be treated lime some random dude despite female body, and guess what. they did!

that was the first forum to save me.

[Ayla]

Like Shan this is a little soon for me. I need to reflect and to process. I have experienced the very best of community and in finding such a community they helped me find my way. For that I will always be grateful. However I found the continuing questioning of my lived experience and non binary nature - firstly tiring, then annoying, finally invalidating and then insulting. At that point I needed to take my leave. The forum in question had tens of thousands of non binary posts and hundreds of threads detailing our innermost thoughts, fears and experiences, but this seemed to pass ignored, unnoticed and disregarded. The constant probing, questioning and hectoring proved a trigger for my dysphoria and it became unhealthy for me. In many ways I think that it is difficult for non trans to understand trans and I think that it is very difficult for binary trans to understand, accept and respect non binaries. The clear need of some to 'help' us, to 'help us understand' that being non binary is in reality 'a transitional stage' is misguided, it would have been better for me if they had just chosen to listen, observe and to learn. If this had been their intent and their practice, then it would indeed have been an extremely effective support site.

[Taka]

i won't be commenting on recent events in public.
it does not seem appropriate, and i need time to think things through.
you all probably know what i think anyway though.

what i do know is that including communitiea exist everywhere, but often in unexpected places.
the bdsm comminity in the city where i studied, were very including.
they could tell me though, that they'd had a time with a bad culture that scared people away, but some responaible people with an including nature had managed to change this.
if you're asking about nb, they didn't seem to have anything against it there. they used very different and practical boxes to sort people in after all. something like "preferences".

[EchelonHunt]

I am with you there, Taka.

The BDSM community was very accepting of gender-variant folks and even asexual folks (a plus for me since I am asexual) however, I wasn't able to shift into living the life 24/7 as some members of the BDSM community are able to. Outside of the community, I have a very busy life with errands, appointments, and doing part-time jobs (helping my mother with her cleaner contractor job) to get by that I struggle to find time to attend social outings with my close (non-kink) friends. It can be difficult to make time in order to actively participate in the BDSM, asexual and transgender communities when life throws many hurdles on a daily basis. Being introverted does not help my case either!

Part of the reason is why I am more active online because it can be easy to use the phone while you are on public transport to your appointment, on lunch time breaks at work and so on...

I wish we could all meet face-to-face one day, that would be thrilling.

[Taka]

a big international nb conference?

meeting just to meet would be cool.
but doing something constructive while meeting wouldn't be bad either

[Deleted]

Nov 20, 2014 1:38:15 GMT 8 Taka said:

a big international nb conference?

meeting just to meet would be cool.
but doing something constructive while meeting wouldn't be bad either

I wouldn't mind a trip to Norway as I have family roots there and have never been anywhere besides the US, Canada, Okinawa, Taiwan and Vietnam which was a bit upsetting since I had enlisted so long ago to go to Europe and wound up seeing the far eastern countryside under much duress instead. I have a secret wish to give Taka a big hug for being who they are to all of us and feel a sense of personal closeness toward them.

[Deleted]

I could write essays on the subject... Actually I think I have.

[Taka]

one day, my friends. one day...

can i read those essays?

[EchelonHunt]

Dread Faery, if you would like a section to post your essays in Dear Universe board, I am more than happy to create a section for you I, like Taka, would very much like to read your essays, if that is alright by you of course! 8-)

[Ayla]

Dread Faery my interest is aroused. Have got to read those essays. While we are on the subject of insight and thought leadership I have sorely missed Ativan's polemics on gender. They have been so impactful on my life and my journey I would love to see further thoughts and reflections. While I seem to wrestle with words some of us just seem to paint such beautiful pictures, provide living flesh to concepts and validate the most damaged of us ....

[Ayla]

Speaking more specifically I recently attended the ANZPATH conference in Adelaide. This was a significant event and Cindy did a brilliant job. However when the working groups were being formed I couldn't help but note the under representation of the indigenous, the young, the mtf, the GQ and many other non binary identities. It was interesting how a natural tension was created between one group and one agenda and another. The feeling that representation, a voice and an advocate was brought home to me. At which point I wondered whether the entire trans community had done itself a disservice in OZ in not forming a single peak body and ensuring that all views were represented and that active engagement with the broader community and government was pursued. this requires a leap of faith as at the end of the day my lived experience, challenges and fears are not closely aligned with the mature MTFs which tend to be better represented, more vocal and more easily identified.

I think that there are a number of complex and interwoven issues here, but I have not yet got my mind around the group dynamic and culture that I recently and quite unexpectedly experienced on another forum.

[Taka]

did you mean to say that the ftm were lacking representation, maybe...?

it's no wonder that mtf are overrepresented.
many of them grew up as men, had good jobs, and acquired the means to continue a career even after transition.
not to talk about the competitiveness and male chauvinist act many seem to have a hard time letting go of.
they can afford to go to conferences, unlike young people, jobless gq/nb people, or ftm nurses.
a generalization, but i think you get my point. there are many voices that aren't being heard simply because they can't afford to go to places where they aren't drowned, or where anyone is there to listen.


if posting essays, i think they should be in a public space. maybe a subforum particularly for essays, or maybe in the appropriate forum for each subject. we could even ask each other to write essays on different subjects. that would be very interesting.

[TDude]

I feel very in and excluded at the same time.

IRL I feel pretty included simple because of my position. I been in the Trans comunity since I was 17, I been helping
on activism, being on posters, in newspaper and doing cooperations with various groups in and outside the country. (bla bla
you name it) So since its a small country where "everyone knows everyone" in the comunity I am pretty respected simple because I been active from a young age, its kinda an "you get and and then give" moral and im in the last level available to help others.
in that way I easly get to feel included or have the options to get into diffrent kind of projects if I feel like I have the energy to do so.

on the other hand I feel very inclusive because im not "normative enough"
on typical gaybars I fear bi and transphobia. specially if they are mainstream so I keep away from them and try find more "transfriendly places" (which usunally are few, relaxing places, but a problem if you want to go out party right here right now)

I dont feel included in the bi community either since I did not really have any troubles with that. My biggest issue with my sexuality is not im bisexual, its that im general question the way we view sexuality and relationships values. I dont want to be monogamyous, or care about gender, and I dont really want to marry and stuff like that. I feel its only the asexual comunity who focus on these issues but I dont feel very includede there because well, I dont really identify as asexual.

then there is the queer vs the lgbt. I tend to feel very drawn the the queer thinkings and everything with think alot more about the norms and world we live in, and it also much more exclusive of non-binary and non monygamyous, however its very undergrown subcultured here, and while I feel I like being Alternative im not THAT alternative. Im not a vegan, im not the type of person screaming out to femenist demonstrations, or the person who fought for the youth house in the past. theres nothing wrong with that, its just im not.
im not a very good rebelioun but im not mainstream in the lgbt club either, so im somewhere in the middle abit lost in the
rainbow
--
yeah so said short, Im included because of my position which gives me certain priviliges, but at the same time im not so very main-stream which makes me feel excluded alot of times. again it all depends on where I am, some places are good and some are bad.

I also feel it not just being lgbt+ You can somethimes feel included or excludede for things which have nothing to do with that. 
exemple I tend to feel excludede because of my nationality, my education or the background I have. it has nothing to do with being lgbt+ but it still something which matters and hurt when people ignore you, or dont understand you for something.