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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 18:21:17 GMT 8
I think I might be "borderlining" on Borderline Personality Disorder. Is it possible to have a "mild case"?
I’ve never self-harmed or attempted suicide, but I’m guilty of drug abuse, of paranoia, of feeling ignored or abandoned, of sudden mood changes, of angry lash-outs, of inflating my persona, and of having an unstable sense of life direction; but I know what I want my end goal to be, and I don’t want to arrive there alone.
"They will be the daughter, boyfriend, or colleague who seems so moody and unpredictable, so charming, so entertaining and beguiling yet so infuriatingly difficult to know and be close to. Never short of a strong opinion themselves, they will also divide opinion and be either loved or loathed by others."www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05/29/borderline-personality-disorder-symptoms-signs-help-advice_n_7459780.html
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Post by EchelonHunt on Jun 12, 2015 20:15:31 GMT 8
It's possible to have borderline traits and not have the full-blown disorder.
I was diagnosed as having borderline traits but not full BPD.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 20:24:37 GMT 8
It's possible to have borderline traits and not have the full-blown disorder. I was diagnosed as having borderline traits but not full BPD. Yeah. I do have a lot of those traits, though, but they haven't really disrupted anything. Most people with BPD have comorbidity with Histrionic, so they have a more extravagant self-expression for the attention. It's usually in clothing, hair, makeup and behavior, but what about online personality? I don't make anything up about myself, but I do tend to ramp up my online image through aesthetics and buzzwords.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Jun 12, 2015 21:10:11 GMT 8
Yeah. I do have a lot of those traits, though, but they haven't really disrupted anything. Most people with BPD have comorbidity with Histrionic, so they have a more extravagant self-expression for the attention. It's usually in clothing, hair, makeup and behavior, but what about online personality? I don't make anything up about myself, but I do tend to ramp up my online image through aesthetics and buzzwords. Wouldn't online personality tie into one's behavior? I don't see why online personality would be separate from anything else, it's another form of self-expression, at least, I think it is.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jun 13, 2015 1:04:04 GMT 8
Yes... To all of it. I am so close in the diagnosis that it just depends on who is making it. A lot of my therapy circles around it. Mood swings are watched by those close to me, they will comment if it's a concern. They know it very well and recognize 'symptoms' as they occur and annoyingly (at times) question me about what's going on. It's just something to be aware of and how it affects me and those around me, otherwise it isn't of much concern. Just read a 'new study' that even has percentages attached to it that indicates a higher occurrence in creativity and creative genius. Take the good with the less significant bad. Online personalities are an extension of self, another expression of self, regardless. They are what we want to say and who we are that is sometimes hard to express anywhere else. If you are worried about that, think about the different places you are online and how they differ. Forum comments are one, emails another important one. Facebook... it's Facebook, yah know, can change in the middle of just looking at it. Other sites give different opportunities to express yourself in their own unique ways, so if they do seem different, think about the reason why. Look at others personalities online that you like and even dislike if you follow them anyways. I kinda tend to think and see a relationship to BPD in a lot of ones that I see as popular or just like because... BPD can be debilitating if left unchecked, it can be like a freight train on a downhill grade with a brake failure, it just slowly picks up speed. But even self diagnosis can keep you on the rails despite an increase in negative symptoms, and most people usually do. There are a lot of different ways that it can be diagnosed as, kinda categorized, so much so that it is hard to even diagnose. All of the criteria can also be a part of yet another diagnosis for whatever. Often people are misdiagnosed with something else because of this. It covers a lot of ground and tends to be a catchall at times for a diagnosis that doesn't fall into another one in a nice clean way. And that's just the thing about it, the diagnosis can be pretty vague for some. It is for me. I tend to just think about the ones that come up the most. That seems to work better than just being med'd out into some zombie sate of compliance, the 'cure' that society as a whole likes the best. But keep in mind that most people who are diagnosed with BPD are creative in ways that are not always measured, it can come in bursts and isn't so noticeable. Everyone has shifts in moods and creativity, sometimes a bad mood can bring on a burst of creativity that defies most others abilities to do so. That can work the other way as well and you can be like that either way, extreme changes brings out creativity in a lot of people, regardless. I tend to think that it isn't as big a deal as some people think, they see a partial diagnosis in their heads and think the worst. Society does that with most 'mental illness', whatever seems to make them uncomfortable yet their own diagnosis go unchecked. Try to find someone who has had to take a tour in a psyche unit for BPD. You won't find one, but you will find other reasons and BPD attached for good measure. Like I said, it is a kind of focal point in therapy for me, but it isn't the reason, it's just a way to talk about other things in relation to it. That's why it is circled around, because in and of itself, it isn't such a thing that as a diagnosis needs to be addressed, it's the behaviors that can be affected. It's rarely by itself debilitating and for most, the side benefits are abilities to see the world through a different lens, so therapy is a better lens. In it's own warped way, it isn't so much a negative 'mental illness' as it can be a positive one, but society points out differences it can't understand. In real life, I don't tell people that I have a diagnosis of it along with other ones, that are on the edge as well. They would go into the frame of mind that it is a bad thing, when most of what they see from me is a good thing by not knowing. Eccentric and hard to handle at times, I tend to push the edges farther than they think of as safe, but being personally creative is like that, you push the boundaries. I talk about those kinds of things in therapy all the time, once explained so that my therapist see's it the way I do, she encourages the better parts of BPD for me. We do have to go into the negative sides of it as well, but that's therapy, you look at the world from every direction to be able to cope with societal views. For most people who are on the edge of a diagnosis of BPD, (and most who are, are diagnosed that way), knowing your personal boundaries both positive and negative can make you a better person than just the average. Know that the positive traits you have really don't have a boundary, it's just the illusion that holds most people back. BPD can be something that works to allow you to pass beyond or not even recognize a much more debilitating thing, that creativity has a boundary. A limit. It works in two basic ways for me, I can find myself in a tight little box that has no way out, or it can allow me to see past the limits that most people think at. It goes hand in hand for many people who are also diagnosed at the edge of bipolar, it works in appearance like it is almost the same. It isn't if you know the difference like I do, because I am diagnosed near the edge of both. The negatives can be pretty bad. Ahh,.. but the positives take me a long ways away from the ordinary restrictions of average. Learn to fly. I have no way to explain that, because you have to be, to understand what that means. See the entirety for what it is, not what limited thinking tells you it is. Sure it has it's down side, but the upside let's you fly...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 0:06:33 GMT 8
It seems that a common trait of people with Borderline Personality Disorder is psychological projection. Due to too many experiences of abandonment any seemingly passive-aggressive remark is taken personally. No matter what you say, they will continue to bypass your defense and lay on assumption after assumption.
The way you keep anything from escalating is to keep calm and be as reassuring as possible. Defend your honesty, but not harshly. Things might even seem to chill out, but one wrong expression and it will start all over again. The person isn’t trying to hurt you, nor are they heartless devils. They are damaged and have grown highly sensitive and paranoid of being left alone.
Loving and caring for someone with BPD isn’t easy, but it’s not impossible. Their condition may even improve when they can see you are genuinely trustworthy and love them. Be reassuring and set boundaries. If you don’t have the kind of patience needed then don’t even go there.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jun 16, 2015 10:46:59 GMT 8
There are many common traits for people with BPD, psychological projection is just one of many and is no more prevalent than any other, but certain individuals most certainly do this. Abandonment is just one suspected cause for BPD, and isn't necessary for it to manifest, but it is one of the common causes along with others. It depends on how the individual views abandonment. Very few people can even detect that a person has BPD, and they are often seen as loving, caring people, and are a lot of fun to be with, until they have an emotional outbreak that isn't necessarily anger, but that is one that is hard for some to deal with. Quite often there can be no detectable signs of any emotion going on, dissociation is common as well. People with BPD are not psychopaths or even sociopaths, they have emotional instabilities. That could be heartless, but that is more common in general in society and all of it's ill's more than it is seen as a symptom or part of a diagnosis of BPD. They are not anymore damaged than anyone who has a psychological diagnosis and there are more damaged people out there in positions of power and wealth who are significantly more damaged, they even have their own diagnosis for it. They can be highly sensitive to changes in their environment and often are, this is one of the more common traits found, but that's not seen as a negative unless it affects behaviors in negative ways. There are more highly sensitive people in general than there are with BPD, it is not a precursor, and paranoid is far more common in many other disorders and when it is present, it is usually mild in comparison. Most people diagnosed with BPD who successfully complete therapies that include DBT, or CBT, or simply talk therapy to learn coping mechanism's can be considered 'cured'. Normal treatment times vary, but around two years is common. There is a likelihood of recurrence, but maintenance therapy is usually effective in much less time and most people will completely recover within a couple recurrences. There are no known meds that have any effect, but there are some that relieve some of the symptoms, like anxiety. It is only in the more extreme cases that BPD is difficult to manage and boundaries are a good thing to have within any relationship. BPD is one of the most misjudged and misinformed psychological disorders out there. It has been discussed many times and even called out towards the DSM V, that the word Borderline is far to misleading and to the general public, is often completely misunderstood for this reason. The UK version I believe is call Emotional Personality Disorder or some such thing that actually describes it better than being borderline anything which most people understand to be completely psychotic and psychopathic in the more celebrated and extreme versions of those type disorders. Patience is often needed at times when a person with BPD has an emotional meltdown, but that's pretty much true of anyone having an emotional meltdown. One thing that has been noted that women with BPD usually respond to estrogen treatments very well. They haven't done any studies on any other groups to see if that holds up with them as well, but I suspect that it does for some. It may be the only 'med' that does have a direct affect on it. It's true that a person needs more patience to deal with someone who has BPD, but no more than most disorders of any kind. Once understood how it is for any individual, it is easy to be around these individuals, but without a good base of knowledge about how it affects different people, it can be frustrating. Emotional outbursts, regardless if they are dangerous to depressive can be dealt with by simply understanding what the individual is going through. I agree, if a person can't do that, they should back away. They should play life safe and do all they can to remain secure in their comfort zone, without diagnosis of what ails them, of why they have that need to confine themselves there.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 18:46:48 GMT 8
The person I've been working with at TriggerWarning.us is self-professed Borderline, and recently had a moment of paranoia with me, taking some of my tweets personally; things I was bitching about regarding living here. She and I had discussed me moving to her area so we could be more productive together, but I've got so much to consider that such a move seems potentially risky. So, when I vented on Twitter she thought I was making references to her, and started lashing out at me and making assumptions that I was trying to get her attention. She even started trying to compare me to her ex, saying he left her because she wasn't giving him enough attention. She finally chilled out and said she was probably wrong, and that it was because she felt guilty that she couldn't give me enough attention. I told her to just get some space, and to even mute or block me if it would make her feel better. I also agreed that I wouldn't vent about those things on there anymore. She said okay. But when she feels comfortable with talking to me again she needs to understand that we can't work together if she's going to treat me like that. She's intelligent and passionate, and I think she's amazing, but she needs to understand that I'm not someone who just abandons people, especially over trivial matters. The only thing that will push me away is continuous verbal abuse when it's not deserved. I think she and I could balance each other out, but she has to allow that possibility. She said she doesn't want to lose me, so she needs to realise that she will if she continues to lash out at me after we've established some boundaries.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Jun 17, 2015 19:28:17 GMT 8
You will need to explain that to her. Boundaries are important in any relationship.
I have had to unfollow my ex on Facebook in order to collect myself emotionally, I let her know that I would need space to come to grips with everything that has happened. It worked a treat and I am slowly opening lines of communication with her again.
With the way she has treated me, I probably will not let her get as close to me as I allowed her before. I fell in love with her too fast and too soon, was convinced that she was "the One" because she was the first person that has ever made me feel sexual and romantic attraction towards. Sexual aspect is a huge deal to me because I've always thought I would be asexual for a long time, that the likelihood of me experiencing sexual attraction would be nil as it has been since puberty began. She blew that expectation out of the water, I'm eternally grateful for that and can hopefully find someone whom I can feel that way again with. We'll still be good friends, of course, just not joined at the hip best buddies.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jun 17, 2015 23:19:30 GMT 8
Changes in environment.. I tend to notice changes in my physical environment that seem to be out of the ordinary, I live with other people and can't help but notice when things are left on countertops, tables etc., and it's usually what is left lying around. While none of them are particularly out of place, some are more than others and I tend to start tying them together, as if they are all related clues to what is going on in the household. It's hard sometimes if it seems easy to tie them into some kind of scenario, especially if that scenario is negative. I've had more than a few mild thoughts that are indeed just being paranoid and it's hard to undo those scenarios once they have taken shape. The only sure way to do that is to simply ask why things are where they are and to express what it looks like as far as how it is seen as a scenario that indeed has brought on a degree of paranoid thinking. Over the years, they have learned as I also have, the ways in how I can think of things, and explanations are usually fun in knowing, more often than not. If I don't, it can lead to seeing other things and building an even stronger case for what it seems like. I'm pretty used to knowing up front that there is a much more reasonable explanation, but that paranoid scenario can still exist and persists (it could just be a cover story, you know). It takes more than the usual degree of logic to see through, see past that persistent feeling and see that the scenario I have put together is just that, a put together idea that once set off, easily becomes like a storyline that goes from fiction to what if. Trust is pretty key, and even if it takes a few tries, it usually dissipates pretty quick with reassurance by asking about it, talking it out as how it appears and again, trusting that how it seemed to be set up and why it isn't, from those I live with. It can take a few tries to stop it, but it has never been anything too difficult, logic prevails over emotional value.
Changes in environment.. The dynamics of a relationship regardless of what kind are pretty much the same thing, except it is much more emotionally based to begin with, it doesn't turn into an emotion of paranoid, it takes and changes emotional values from one to the other. Pretty difficult to just use simple logic to find a way out or to back up to be able to see it with more clarity and for what it really is, just me making something out of various 'clues' and into a scenario that seems like I should be paranoid about it. Those episodes are much harder to define and dismantle so they can be put back together in an order that actually makes more sense and ends the paranoid thoughts, feelings, the value of them. It's the values that I put on someone elses emotions that is different from their intention. There is usually no hard evidence that logic can grab onto, like there is with changes in my physical environment. Takes a different approach and that is opening up a window of conversation, express what I think, which is hard to do, you have to admit to someone how it makes you feel, and for me it's hard to get that point across sometimes, I step back and despite how they made me feel, I don't want to make them feel some negative emotion just because I do. I know somewhere that it is just me taking things the wrong way, but can't help but put it together into that kind of scenario. I don't ever get really carried away with paranoia, it is more of a nuisance kind of thing, but I can easily see how it can make the jump to a much stronger feeling. I've gone down that path during breakdowns from other things, it can go hand in hand, so I have felt it, experienced it, but under extenuating circumstances that it is a lesser concern than what is really going on at those times. Having breakdowns really suck, the out of control feelings for me are generally at near panic, or very depressive swings in thinking, so they take a back seat and usually just go away along with whatever is going on, but they are there, none the less. Hasn't happened in quite a few years now, to that degree and the same with breakdowns in general. (Bipolar under control, triggers well defined and noted, meds not needed.) The paranoid feelings, thinking patterns need to be not just deconstructed, but the clues themselves need to be deconstructed as well. 'That's not what I meant' isn't really good enough, I need to know what you really meant to be able to take that paranoid clue out of the equation, and usually there are quite a few to do this with. It takes just talking about them, but trust is also in play at the same time. If you can't do that with the person themselves, you need a designated driver who you do trust to explain it back to you in how it really is, whether it's by the other persons actions or statements or both, which combined makes if even more difficult to deconstruct.
This is just my own reactions and how it works for me, but I think it is valid to one degree or another for most people with near or mild BPD. I've always let my therapists be one of those designated to help me with that and related things about BPD, but I'm not considered heavily diagnosed with it either. But having a therapist (and a psychologist) work with it, with me, they tend to explain it in terms that are more to the point and yet are generalized as well. They aren't there, they can only go by what I tell them, so it is in terms that can apply to most people who are on that edge or diagnosed as mild BPD. The only reason I think what works for me, the way to get out of being unreasonably paranoid and other emotional disturbances, is in knowing in a general way how it works. This is because every scenario is different and strict self rules of engagement don't allow enough 'radial' thinking and set up more lateral thinking, which allows a misguided scenario to develop. The degree of trust in a relationship, regardless of what that relationship is, is very key. It allows a higher level of discussion, a more personal discussion that is on a higher level of trust to be more personal and intimate about whatever issue that has come up. Having a therapist who you can trust to a high degree is really helpful, you not only can find resolution, but also learn and see how emotions can become more intense than they need to be. Talking it out and allowing yourself to put trust into those who are involved or are there to help is pretty key. So is knowing what to look for yourself, to be able to identify symptoms, learn to deal with them. Simply having an open and honest discussion of what you and others think, goes a long ways. This works, know the difference between you being paranoid, needlessly emotional, and someone telling you that you are, when you're not. This recently happened to me, but because I ran that scenario into so much deconstruction and fact finding before, that it was easy to see that it was a projection of their own miss placed, miss guided paranoia and opinion. Know the difference between a qualified opinion and a bar stool psychologist, most people don't have a clue as to what constitutes a disorder and how wrong their own misguided street talk psychology, is. But it sounds like you both are dealing with it in the most logical and realistic ways that work, it pays to look into what is real and what is nothing more than unqualified opinions.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Jun 18, 2015 0:13:24 GMT 8
Oh god, I relate to so much of what you've said, Ativan. Communication and trust is important, indeed. I agree, it is hard to express myself. I still struggle with it verbally, it's much easier for me to express myself online.
People who pretend to be armchair therapists without any qualifications, telling people how they are feeling and not feeling... this irks me more than anything. Ask me how I am feeling, don't come to your own conclusions on your own. You may know some things about me but you aren't living in my head. Until personality/soul implantation becomes a reality, nobody can determine what another person is feeling without asking them first unless they are close friends or family but even then, it's not socially acceptable to act like a know-nothing know-it-all. People who do end up looking like fools and humiliating themselves when called out on their BS.
*drops the mic and walks off*
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jun 18, 2015 0:53:35 GMT 8
The way that society has grown used to using psycho babble-babble makes it difficult for anyone with any degree of a diagnosed disorder. Hollywood takes it to extremes, but there seems like there has been a recent push to have more accuracy at times as well. But for the most part, there are always those armchair experts out there who persist in giving misguided diagnosis and opinions that hurt. Reality is, there are far more people who have a disorder that goes undiagnosed because of the stigma attached to just about any of them. And quite a few of those 'experts' have a need to be diagnosed as well, they often times are trying to hide a problem they have by deflecting. I generally am of the opinion that if those who indeed need help are getting it, and the stigma is lifted, many of the worlds problems will disappear. There are far to many people with wealth and power who could use therapy. There is an actual diagnosis for people who hoard money, the 1%. But they also have the power to be able to sidestep the help they need. Don't even want to go into dictatorships, let alone those in charge of entire countries. Still, just taking the stigma off of it, taking care of it through programs and making sue that those who need help are receiving it, a lot of societies problems will be gone. When the world seems to be going crazy, people all talk about how to fix it, but they rarely if ever listen to the mental health people who keep trying, but can't be heard by everyone else chatter about what should be done. I'm lucky enough to live in an area where it is taken very seriously, but still, it is a major problem that has yet to be even close to being effectively dealt with. Band-aide fixes just make it worse in most cases. Suicides can easily be prevented, prison systems with revolving doors, State Mental Institutions with no exit doors. We support our troops unless they need help with dealing with the horrors that undiagnosed power mongers and the wealthy sent into a battle that didn't need to happen. I can go on and on. Just look at the negativity from so called experts who have jumped all over LGBT again because of recent events that have tried to take a stigma away. *mental health advocate here....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 4:12:21 GMT 8
Right now, Rachel is in a "completely ignore Arin" phase. She needs to snap out of it. Gotta love that "I hate you, don't leave me" thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 4:16:27 GMT 8
Oh god, I relate to so much of what you've said, Ativan. Communication and trust is important, indeed. I agree, it is hard to express myself. I still struggle with it verbally, it's much easier for me to express myself online. People who pretend to be armchair therapists without any qualifications, telling people how they are feeling and not feeling... this irks me more than anything. Ask me how I am feeling, don't come to your own conclusions on your own. You may know some things about me but you aren't living in my head. Until personality/soul implantation becomes a reality, nobody can determine what another person is feeling without asking them first unless they are close friends or family but even then, it's not socially acceptable to act like a know-nothing know-it-all. People who do end up looking like fools and humiliating themselves when called out on their BS. *drops the mic and walks off* Being a therapist (armchair or clinical) is/should be about listening and providing insight, not about telling someone how they feel/not feel.
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Post by callalily on Jun 20, 2015 5:35:52 GMT 8
It's possible to have BPD traits. And also, if I recall correctly, you only have to have 5 out of 9 symptoms to be diagnosed anyway, and that's a plethora of combinations in there. I have BPD and it sucks. Although it mainly sucks because of people's ableism, not the disorder itself. Not that the symptoms are very fun most of the time. I would love, for instance, if I stopped feeling like everyone in the world was going to abandon me because of the slightest misstep. But oh well. Also, I agree, being a therapist shouldn't be about telling someone how they feel or don't feel.
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