Do nb persons need surgery's at all?

[danishcouple]

I was wondering does non binairy persons need surgery's at all, can we also be happy and have a good life without out surgery's?

What us scared to have surgery's was the results, oke there are doctors who transforming people who have good results, but out there there goes also surgery's wrong with lots of complications, some mus come back for an other revisiting surgery , but also the pain ugly scars ( for example mastectomy and phalloplasty ) is it all worth this?

Is it in some reason better for persons to become non-binair and go to the doctor and say he hallo i want to transform but only on hormones, but not chirurgical .

And i think for some doctors is it also better to transform people without surgery if i see some results.

[Leena]

I think it's a highly individual thing, and depends on your starting point to some extent. There are some nonbinary people that do the opposite, just surgery without HRT, though whether that is even allowed is another story and varies by jurisdiction.

How effective HRT is varies as well. Before I started HRT, I thought I would need breast augmentation and facial femininization surgery to be read as anything but a guy, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I do wonder about how much differently people would treat me if I got them though.

[Trinity]

as an amab nb trans person, surgery for me is not appealing.

I got the boobs, loss of some body hair, still have a beard but shave it but I get tired and don't and have stubble and walk around in a nightgown and 4 day beard...

But no bottom surgery, no facial surgery, no electrolysis.

I have controlling circumstances, I'm married to a straight cisgender female, bottom surgery is off the table even though my body would want it.

Probably easier for mtf, for scars and all that, I've never seen bottom surgery results for ftm but sure have seen what happens to their arms when they get the graft material from them and frankly it horrifies me.

Bottom line I guess is whether the discomfort and scarring is worth it and helps the dysphoria or functionality or actual safety enough to justify it.

Trans women can be killed for being preop and in the wrong place with the wrong person. 

I don't know with trans men.

Trans nb people are just downright cool and just being who they are without appology, hopefully attract others who like that.

No one way to be trans, no one way to be nonbinary, whatever works to ease the pain, or bring peace, is a good thing for us on the physical transition level.

It gets complicated with existing marriages, really hard with the changes.  Can be done, sometimes with trade offs and compromises, but its a lot for our loved ones to handle most of the time, in my opinion.  It was and still is hard for mine.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Your body, your rules.

[Leena]

I really needed electrolysis. I have very translucent skin and it looked like I had 5 o'clock shadow no matter how close a shave I got. Made me too uncomfortable to even attempt to really present feminine in public. Covering it up with makeup didn't really help much, until I was almost finished with electrolysis.

[Trinity]

Depending on my mood, there are times when I have enough beard hanging on that its a kind of cool look to be transitioned with the beard, kind of exotic, and then just shave it off and go all the way the other way.

In the beginning, it wasn't like this, I saw she in me and hated her, I still see male pics of me when I was in my twenties and thirties and I have a self loathing aspect of that, I always see it in the pics, its not escapable.

Once I transitioned I was ok with the mirror unless they force me to cut my hair. Then its bad again. But for the most part, its not so bad, and I see less of her looking back and just all of me looking back, but that took a while to accept, it was in this forum that I was able to accept that I have more than the binary facets, or more than just she and a he and the split of gender, but instead a wholeness of myself, but depending on the situation, that can be slanted toward either of the binaries, or towards a state of rest that is more centered and composed of both at the same time, which I choose to call androgyne at times because it is a noun, a physical desciption, but nothing actually works, labels always fail.

How I look in that avatar pic is who I am, I see that picture and I see a true representation of me, its taken years to get there.

[Trinity]

Interesting that I slipped into binary language, when the truth is, its just me. She and he are ways to express repressed feelings that have been assigned one way or the other by the matrix, but the reality I think is that I am me, and its outside the rules of the binary, so find out who the me is, and its not a gender, its just a me, and I look like that because that's me.

[Ativan Prescribed]

I'm letting my goatee grow out and its getting pretty long now, and I don't shave the rest of my face but I do have it cut way back and trim that quite a bit, that along with the gery and the long grey hair, getting that old sorcerer look going.
Just something different for me, I shaved everything but the goatee a while back and was considering having that Fu Manchu looking long mustache look, but I kinda like this.
I have a full length mirror in my bedroom and I go in there for something and see myself wearing a full length flowing skirt and the beard and I just gotta laugh at the look, its absurdly me.
Outside the apt I wear a hoodie and keep the hood way over the top of my head, down low over my forehead and that with the goatee the way it is looks pretty awesome I think, sorta more sorcerer look than not wearing the hood like that.
But I see myself in the mirror and I don't think of my reflection as feminine or masculine, its just me and I know who I am and have always been this way so there is no dysphoria and I accept myself the way I am, I have no need to 'look' the part of NB.

[Trinity]

Yah it doesn't work that way with me really, but we are all very different with it.

It's all very cool to me.  Fascinating really.

I can see it a bunch of ways, different perspectives on it, see through it, be part of it, it's all very interesting to me.

Didn't know about the beard  thing, I'll bet that looks cool and I'll bet that skirt looks totally natural on you as well because its who you are, which is the key in my opinion.

I've seen you from the back, badass pic in a camo mini topless, you'd never know until you turned around and it would be an OMG moment if you did.

And that's the one without the itch....

Different with me but I am so comfortable flying the matrix its just wild.

[danishcouple]

with this i mean also that the succcess of our transformation depends on the experience of our therapists, finally our therapists transforming us, we can't transforming our self.

[Trinity]

This is where the trouble comes in this country.

To get surgery and to get the tens of thousands of dollars required to do it from insurance, unless things changed a lot in the last ten years, they force you to live binary.

So if you are nonbinary trans, they force you to live as the opposite gender in order to get bottom surgery.

Ok, someone fact check me on it now..... I could be wrong.

When I went to therapy ten years ago, they didn't even know what to do, I didn't fit their classifications and it was a fight to get hormones because I wouldn't say I was a woman trapped in a mans body.

[danishcouple]

Nov 20, 2021 2:00:12 GMT 8 Trinity said:

This is where the trouble comes in this country.

To get surgery and to get the tens of thousands of dollars required to do it from insurance, unless things changed a lot in the last ten years, they force you to live binary.

So if you are nonbinary trans, they force you to live as the opposite gender in order to get bottom surgery.

Ok, someone fact check me on it now..... I could be wrong.

When I went to therapy ten years ago, they didn't even know what to do, I didn't fit their classifications and it was a fight to get hormones because I wouldn't say I was a woman trapped in a mans body.

Oh where does you life usa?

I tought that the usa was also a modern country.

Here in Europe things goes very different, in some country's you must have a clearance from a psychiatrist and must have around 20 consults, here in denmark we have one consult with an psycholog if there is need, and that's it most of us are introduced in a specivic group like mtf, ftm or f/m to the 3rd gender and with in3 till 6 months a therapist starts your transformation, the only we pay is a high monthly insurance of 200 euro's

[Trinity]

Nov 20, 2021 2:51:53 GMT 8 danishcouple said:

Nov 20, 2021 2:00:12 GMT 8 Trinity said:

This is where the trouble comes in this country.

To get surgery and to get the tens of thousands of dollars required to do it from insurance, unless things changed a lot in the last ten years, they force you to live binary.

So if you are nonbinary trans, they force you to live as the opposite gender in order to get bottom surgery.

Ok, someone fact check me on it now..... I could be wrong.

When I went to therapy ten years ago, they didn't even know what to do, I didn't fit their classifications and it was a fight to get hormones because I wouldn't say I was a woman trapped in a mans body.

Oh where does you life usa?

I tought that the usa was also a modern country.

Here in Europe things goes very different, in some country's you must have a clearance from a psychiatrist and must have around 20 consults, here in denmark we have one consult with an psycholog if there is need, and that's it most of us are introduced in a specivic group like mtf, ftm or f/m to the 3rd gender and with in3 till 6 months a therapist starts your transformation, the only we pay is a high monthly insurance of 200 euro's

wow.

My insurance is 2000 bucks a month for me and my wife, I live in Florida, and it gets pretty strange.  The government pays that for me right now due to low income on my part, in another couple years I'll be on medicare for retirement.

I have enough allies in the medical side that they would write up whatever I needed to get the surgery, question would be on the psyche side, I forget what it takes now because I stopped looking at it but I know I could get it based on who I know and that they know I have been vocal about being trans here and it affected things in a good way locally.

Yes a modern country but we also have a subset in here that is anti trans and they are in power in this state.   It can be very scary.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Not sure if they still do this, probably do though, if you are on medicaid in this state, they pay for the surgeries a therapist or psychologists recommend which is most likely what you want to begin with.
Some really good surgeons up here as well and through the UofM its an easy thing to get psychologist referrals, and meds are covered by medicare and medicaid as well.
It was at the Uof M that the standards of care for tran people came about and the beginnings of the push for NB as legitimate as well.
My income is so low that I automatically am covered by medicaid and I'm old enough that I get medicare, my detectable for medicaid is about 360 and costs me nothing, most medical is going to wipe that deductible for low income as well.
Not that its super great medical, but its something, medicaid in this state is pretty good, covers more than in the especially red states where god forbid someone gets medical care at all.
Medical in this country is not affordable by most and there is no country wide medical other than medicare and you have to be over 65 or disabled and honestly it doesn't cover what most people need, old people go bankrupt over medical all the time, just like most people do who go bankrupt, leading cause of it, and it screws your ability to get like loans and even jobs, a big black mark all thanks to republican assholes in office.
But I had surgery not too long ago and it was medicaid that covered the bulk of it, hospital sent me a letter a month later letting me know everything was covered, good to go.
But then a simple and lacking visit with my Dr locally I got sent a bill for over two hundred and I was in that office long enough to get my meds straightened out as to which I wanted and didn't want and they took some blood and that was about it, so it was my cost at 15 minutes of $800 an hour...

[Leena]

Insurance is tied to most people's employer in the US. How much, if any, transition related care varies a lot from state to state and plan to plan. It's a horrible system but it's unlikely to change anytime soon.