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Post by EchelonHunt on Mar 4, 2016 23:22:37 GMT 8
Can this term die in the burning pits of hell, please?
Everyone starts somewhere, everyone was previously at a state where they couldn't pass.
To say someone has passing privilege, it's like telling them that they always 100% passed, their life is easy, they have it so easy. They shouldn't complain about anything because boo-hoo, the rest of us aren't pretty enough or fortunate enough to have the surgeries to pass as female.
It is like shooting someone else down because you are jealous of all the things they have that you don't have. I just think it's so nonsensical but perhaps people can shed light on this for me?
You know what? There are so many different ways to be a woman. You don't have to fit society's stereotype of female (long hair, tight clothing, sexualised posing, etc.) in order to "pass" as female.
It's like Transwoman A said in one video, she notices that when she is out with Transwoman B and B doesn't pass as well as A, B will get jealous and start comparing herself to A. A thinks this is sad, that it shouldn't happen in a community where we support one another but says it's a very human thing to do.
I don't like the term "passing" either, it implies that transgender folks are trying to "pass" a test, like they are pretending to be something they're not. Transition is another word I'm not fond of either as my journey, my entire development of self through the years cannot be condensed down to going from A to B.
Blah, what a word vomit haha. Just wanted to kick-start discussion
What are your thoughts? Do you believe in passing privilege? Why? If not, why? What do you think of terms such as passing and transition?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 0:32:16 GMT 8
Jacey, I’m with you: I wish this expression would go by-the-by. This is how I see it.
When we talk of privilege, we’re usually suggesting that somebody has an unfair advantage. Think, e.g., of schools for rich kids. High tuition fees that less well-off people can’t pay. Now is a rich kid any smarter than a working-class kid? Not necessarily. But it doesn’t matter. His family has the means to pay. We all agree that everybody’s entitled to a good education, but the rich are more likely to get it than the not so rich. We see that as privilege, an unfair advantage. You’re unfairly getting something that others won’t get, perhaps getting more than your due.
Now consider this statement: “Morgan Freeman is a privileged black man because he’s not as likely as your average black man to get shot by the cops for no good reason.” Would anybody have any trouble seeing that this statement is racist?
If Freeman is privileged, he’s got an unfair advantage. He’s unfairly getting something that others don’t get. And what is he getting? He’s not being shot by the cops for no good reason. This is crazy. Not getting shot for no good reason isn’t a privilege. It’s a right.
There’s all sorts of problems here. For one thing, it suggests that your average black man deserves to be shot for no good reason. After all, if not getting shot is a privilege, then getting shot is just a normal state of affairs that everybody should expect to face.
Secondly, it seems to put the blame on Freeman himself. He’s the one with the privilege, hence he’s the one who’s being unfair. We deflect the blame from those who are actually guilty—i.e., a racist police force—onto someone who’s doing nothing at all wrong.
And finally, it’s a gross insult to Freeman himself. It’s as if we’re saying, “At the end of the day you’re just one black man like any other. If it weren’t for your wealth and fame, you’d be treated like all the rest of them. You’re not any better than the others. You’ve just bought your way out of what the rest of them are getting.” As if Freeman did something wrong by becoming a famous and much-loved actor.
Such a statement is clearly racist, demeaning to all black people, including Freeman himself.
So how is it different when we start talking about “passing privilege”? What sort of “privilege” does the passing transperson enjoy? Well, they’re less likely than others to get murdered, beaten up or otherwise harassed. But is not being murdered, beaten up or otherwise harassed a privilege? No, I’d say it’s a right.
So again, if we say this is a privilege, we’re acknowledging that somehow being beaten up is just a normal state of affairs that every transperson should expect to face. And it deflects the blame from those who are guilty—i.e., trans-haters who are beating people up—onto the passing transperson who’s doing nothing at all wrong.
Finally, it’s an insult to the passing transperson. As if to say, “You’re no better than the rest of us. You’ve just found a way to escape what the rest of us are getting. You don’t deserve that, you know.”
Except that the insult in this case is even worse than the one being dealt out to Morgan Freeman. Because Freeman did at least earn his position on the basis of his talent and hard work. But how does the passing transperson gain their position? Simply by accident. Nobody can help what they look like. Whether you’re good-looking or not, that’s not something you have any control over.
So the insult amounts to saying that the passing transperson is actually completely worthless. They get their privilege solely by accident, not on the basis of any merits they might actually posses. In other words, there’s no good reason why they shouldn’t be beaten up like everybody else.
In other words, this term “passing privilege” is demeaning and insulting to all of us. It suggests that as transpeople we deserve to be beaten up, because if you’re not being beaten up, you’re enjoying a privilege, an unfair advantage. For me, the use of this term springs from internalized transphobia.
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Post by Mingma on Mar 5, 2016 0:46:32 GMT 8
The whole notion of passing is objectionable for the reasons you both noted, but I've been guilty of using it. It is strange to me, but probably shouldn't be, that a shorthand expression is both prejudicial and seductive. When I tell people that usually I "pass" they immediately know what I mean but the meaning is tainted. I'm being myself not an imitation of someone else. If I say that today nobody paid much mind to me at all, which is the usual case, it is more accurate but also less trendy and punchy.
Today I look more andro male than usual. I'm wearing tie cord trousers, a collared shirt, and an old jacket I got when I crewed on a crabber-tender over thirty years ago. It still faintly smells of diesel and has the boat embroidered on the back. But I have painted nails and purple sneakers too. So, do I pass? I haven't any idea and don't very much care. Nobody pays me much mind.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Mar 5, 2016 1:02:15 GMT 8
On another thread I questioned the word transition as it applies to transsexuals, but further reflection and a comment or two have gotten me thinking about the word itself as it applies to anyone's gender. Is it time to park it and leave the keys for someone else? Is progression a better word? Where does it work under the trans umbrella, do we abandon that in favor of something different? I'd like nothing better than to not be labeled by others, save for those who are under that umbrella. Although I picked this little part out of the discussion, the comments are telling.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 1:56:41 GMT 8
On another thread I questioned the word transition as it applies to transsexuals, Can you give us a link to that thread? I'd be interested in having a look at it.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Mar 5, 2016 2:15:31 GMT 8
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 3:04:21 GMT 8
Thanks, Ativan. I've posted a reply on that thread.
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Post by Shan on Mar 5, 2016 3:53:00 GMT 8
Passing privilege? Another idea conjured up by some dipshit with too much time on their hands who is probably suffering from passing envy. How about that one? Passing envy. Gee I don't wanna be a dipshit too!
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Post by Taka on Mar 5, 2016 5:40:15 GMT 8
there are a whole lot of eords that seem more harmful than useful to me.
passing is one. its a ridiculous thought that you should need to pass as anything at all in order to be happy. i'd understand if it was for undercover operations, but what does a trans person really need to pass? are we spies or traps? it should be more than enough to be somewhat presentable.
transition is something i won't ever be able to understand. so you walk into a hospital and come out a perfect opposite sex version of yourself after a certain amount of time... makes better sense to talk about getting the necessary treatment.
transphobia is another word that i don't like. there was a headline about a transphobic bathroom bill. maybe some of the people behind were truly fearful of trans folks. but what i saw was discrimination, and that's what it should be called if you want to point out that a discussion is about basic human rights rather than some special trans rights that people can easily attack. hateful utterances also aren't transfobic. they're simply hateful.
the more trans-centered terms we use to talk about rights or treatment or whatever, the more we'll dehumanise ourselves, marking ourselves as "other". it's better to use as many universal terms as possible, words that would mark any discrimination or hate crimes as just the se as what happens to other groups of people who face the same types of violence.
most of the trans rights that people keep talking about are actually basic human rights. that should be pointed out more often, threough the way it is talked about, and word choices. to remind people that we aren't fighting to get some sort of privilege.
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Post by Shan on Mar 5, 2016 6:42:30 GMT 8
Excellent commentary Taka, I love your thinking on this one! In fact I think that both you and Ativan are really onto the idea that we need a new way of looking at ourselves and projecting that new and refreshing reality into our daily lives as we mix with the everyday world around us.
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Post by Kira on Mar 5, 2016 7:07:38 GMT 8
Passing won't go away because 'being for all intents and purposes indistinguishable from a cisgender person' is such a mouthful. And it is useful to be able to refer to whether poeple can or can't tell what your gender history is. Passing is not a great choice of word but its not going to be easy to substitute it.
Privilege is relative. Sure, everyone should have the same rights but they don't, even basic human rights. It's useful to refer to the effect of one person being granted more rights than a other based on gender, race, etc. It may sound weird to call it privilege, but it's useful for it to have some kind of name.
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Post by Taka on Mar 5, 2016 7:49:14 GMT 8
privilege is mostly an advantage a person gets just from being themselves. if they did a whole lot of work to get extras, it's a reward, not a privilege.
in some cases, i feel lile the word may be used wrongly. passing privilege sounds weird because i'm sure most of those who got that far made both effort and sacrifices for it.
talking about male privilege is also a bit awkward, because people who are accepted as male by male society are privileged because of control structures that the male needs to be part of in order to get that privilege. i'd rather talk about the control structures than the privilege which comes with a curse for many men.
what i'm against aren't the words themselves, as they are good to have when needed. but i don't like how they become alpha and omega, and the bigger picture is lost because of too much focus on those details. it becomes a little like discussing how to treat the symptoms rather than do something about the cause.
as an example, challenging the binary norm, can make it easier for more people to pass, or be accepted for who they are without having to be 100% passable as cis.
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Post by Trinity on Mar 5, 2016 12:44:04 GMT 8
And caving into the binary norm also makes it easier.
I got tired of the stares. It became easier to be a girl.
Is that priveledge or just relief?
I just want to blend. I want to be accepted as me. As she.
Its easier.
Just being honest, and fortunate too i guess..
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Post by Taka on Mar 5, 2016 15:00:56 GMT 8
caving in is giving up. you'll feel relief, but what did you give up for it?
it's perfectly ok though. everybody doesn't need to be strong. and most people care a lot more than i do about what other people think, and those stares.
but it shouldn't have to be this way. the current gender norms need to be broken, so we can have freedom of expression. and so that she and he will include more than just the cis stereotype.
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Post by Trinity on Mar 5, 2016 21:43:31 GMT 8
caving in is giving up. you'll feel relief, but what did you give up for it? it's perfectly ok though. everybody doesn't need to be strong. and most people care a lot more than i do about what other people think, and those stares. but it shouldn't have to be this way. the current gender norms need to be broken, so we can have freedom of expression. and so that she and he will include more than just the cis stereotype. I pick my battlefields.....hence fluid socially and full spectrum nb and binary presentation
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