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Post by Trinity on Mar 5, 2016 22:42:00 GMT 8
Last night i was full out she/me. Very comfortable now in that presentation/ relational dynamic.
I was gendered and accepted she throughout the night. I was treated nice, we had a couple reads my mideast guys at restaurants but it was easy to blow off, a voice drop i think...i didnt care at this point i dont care what strangers think.
Cis women were talking to me girl to girl, a foot from my aging face...never catching on.
On the way home the train stopped, i was exausted, was standing, sort of slid to the floor, sitting on my heels.
A young black maverick tough saw it. Big guy, 6 6, beer in a paper bad, 20s. If you stereotype you know hes probably carrying, knows how to handle himself.
He motioned to me, gave up his seat in this crowded train, i said thanks, he kinda smiled and went to where i had been leaning, turned away, drank his beer.
Street tough giving his seat to the old lady with her wig cause she looked exhausted.
This is nyc. That is probably what you are talking about.
I do ok andro too, but it doesnt go like that. And i like living and being a trans woman, even when i look presentationally and deliberately like a man.
What a journey this is. Ill be all over the spectrum again this weekend in presentations.
They are just matrix masks.
Each has a social advantage. But me? I have become sh'e.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2016 2:14:45 GMT 8
Privilege is relative. Sure, everyone should have the same rights but they don't, even basic human rights. It's useful to refer to the effect of one person being granted more rights than a other based on gender, race, etc. It may sound weird to call it privilege, but it's useful for it to have some kind of name. What I'm saying is this: someone who's passing has it easier than others, no doubt about it. But it's not as if they're getting extra rights. They're not getting more than their due. They're enjoying the right not to be harassed for no good reason. Now those who aren't passing are being denied their rights. They have the right not to be harassed, and they're not getting it. So it's not as if the passing person is getting anything they don't deserve. It's the non-passing person who's not getting what they do deserve. And to say that the passing person is privileged makes it sound as if it's their fault. So what do we say? I myself pass quite well, and I do often say that I'm "lucky", or that I'm "blessed". Here's one definition of "blessed" that I find in my dictionary: "characterized by happiness or good fortune". I find that pretty accurate. But note that I feel lucky or blessed only because I'm not getting beaten up. I've been in a couple of situations where if I'd been read, the chances are pretty good that I'd have taken a right good beating. That was certainly lucky for me. But to say that I'm "privileged" because I escaped a beating is pretty insulting to me. As if I deserved it. Let's put the blame where it belongs: on young thugs who are thoroughly uncivilized. I think the expression "passing privilege" turns things around backwards. Maybe we should focus on those who are being harassed. We talk about "battered women." Maybe we should talk about "battered transpeople". That expression puts the blame squarely where it belongs--on those who are doing the battering. [Or how about something like "transpeople at risk"? That puts the blame where it belongs, and it also gets rid of that problematic word "passing".]
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Post by Trinity on Mar 6, 2016 5:54:14 GMT 8
Privilege is relative. Sure, everyone should have the same rights but they don't, even basic human rights. It's useful to refer to the effect of one person being granted more rights than a other based on gender, race, etc. It may sound weird to call it privilege, but it's useful for it to have some kind of name. What I'm saying is this: someone who's passing has it easier than others, no doubt about it. But it's not as if they're getting extra rights. They're not getting more than their due. They're enjoying the right not to be harassed for no good reason. Now those who aren't passing are being denied their rights. They have the right not to be harassed, and they're not getting it. So it's not as if the passing person is getting anything they don't deserve. It's the non-passing person who's not getting what they do deserve. And to say that the passing person is privileged makes it sound as if it's their fault. So what do we say? I myself pass quite well, and I do often say that I'm "lucky", or that I'm "blessed". Here's one definition of "blessed" that I find in my dictionary: "characterized by happiness or good fortune". I find that pretty accurate. But note that I feel lucky or blessed only because I'm not getting beaten up. I've been in a couple of situations where if I'd been read, the chances are pretty good that I'd have taken a right good beating. That was certainly lucky for me. But to say that I'm "privileged" because I escaped a beating is pretty insulting to me. As if I deserved it. Let's put the blame where it belongs: on young thugs who are thoroughly uncivilized. I think the expression "passing privilege" turns things around backwards. Maybe we should focus on those who are being harassed. We talk about "battered women." Maybe we should talk about "battered transpeople". That expression puts the blame squarely where it belongs--on those who are doing the battering. [Or how about something like "transpeople at risk"? That puts the blame where it belongs, and it also gets rid of that problematic word "passing".] I love this post.
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Post by Leena on Mar 13, 2016 14:35:59 GMT 8
Some people just are lucky to be able to pass as opposite AAB without a lot of effort. I am not one of those people. I don't even pass really with a lot of effort. It is what is, I'm not a big fan of the whole privilege thing, in general. It's far easier to understand that you aren't going to ever change the world in general, but you can change your world's perception of you...
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Post by Kira on Mar 13, 2016 16:23:09 GMT 8
Ok, so then we all object to cis priveledge too? After all its the same thing. And white priveledge and me priveledge. No?
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Post by Taka on Mar 13, 2016 16:38:11 GMT 8
the easiest thing to change though, is your own perception of the world and how you let others affect you.
the cure to depression and anxiety can only be found within. the way to walk down a street without fear, is to not think about the what ifs, and take any attention as a proof that you're doing something right.
guys who hurl insults are most likely so insecure about the masculinity of their own sexuality that they can't help but feel this urge to spew hate to cover up their brains' tries at arousal. (i don't even care if this is really the case, because i want to think about it this way. makes my own world a tiny bit better.)
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Post by Taka on Mar 13, 2016 16:50:34 GMT 8
Ok, so then we all object to cis priveledge too? After all its the same thing. And white priveledge and me priveledge. No? cis privilege in the places where it exists. like health care, housing, and employment. in other areas, it isn't as much cis privilege, as a conformer privilege. anyone who visually conforms has privilege. while a birth mark in the face could make things just as hard for a person as not passing as... "cis". actually, passing privilege is weird thing to call it, because passing gives you cis privilege. so the goal is to look a cis member of the target gender... oh, i'm glad i'm non-binary. i feel no need to exhaust myself working towards such an odd goal. (it only seems odd to me because i'm different, doesn't mean i find others odd for pursuing this sort of goal.)
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Post by EchelonHunt on Mar 13, 2016 17:42:21 GMT 8
You know, it's weird. I want to present as female in the future with one small caveat, having male genitalia. If I pass as female, does that mean I'm taking advantage of my "cis" privilege since I was born female, even though my body no longer looks female in certain places?
I think the way my gender is going, it's turning into a huge "Fuck you, I do what I want." to society and gender stereotypes as a whole. Even when I was female, I rejected the idea of conforming to society's demands and stereotypes of what I must look like, I ended up looking like a boy.
It makes sense to me that as a person with a male body, I reject the common image of what a male looks like and create my own that is comfortable for me which is funnily enough, looking like a girl.
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Post by Ayla on Mar 13, 2016 17:51:54 GMT 8
Jacey
Much of what you say resonates with me. Frankly only you can or should determine how you wish to occur, how you wish to present and how you wish to express yourself. If you wish to present as female or as androgynous with male genitalia, then so what - its your life etc I am entirely sympathetic as my body is currently moving into the androgynous zone and may well continue to feminise, but I am the only person that gets to decide if I should present as F, A or M with or without male genitalia. Frankly all bets are off at present, but time will tell. Situations change, life often throws a curve ball and how others may react is entirely uncertain. So step by step I continue my journey. My decision to keep my external plumbing or change to an internal design; or to present as gender fluid, as an andro male or as an andro female; is simply put, my decision and is mine alone to make.
Safe travels
Aisla
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Post by Taka on Mar 13, 2016 18:58:30 GMT 8
what i think we need for our societies, is to widen the concepts of male and female, to include the trans with the cis, so that cis privilege over the trans becomes as minimal as possible. at least there shouldn't need to be any discrimination in health cate systems or with regards to housing or employment.
it's just too sad if a person has to look lile they were born with the right body make-up in order to get equal rights. the whole situation is just as bad as for people with disabilities that don't disable them from thinking for themselves and making their own decisions.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2016 21:28:14 GMT 8
Ok, so then we all object to cis priveledge too? After all its the same thing. And white priveledge and me priveledge. No? Kira, we need to bear something in mind, I think: wherever privilege exists, it’s because privileged people created and maintained it. E.g., once upon a time, going way back, the only voters were males with a certain amount of property. Everybody else was excluded. Now who created that privilege? You’re talking about male privilege. Then there was a time, e.g., in the US when all white people, rich, poor, male, female, could vote without any problem. Black people on the other hand could face considerable difficulties in exercising their right to vote (which theoretically they did have), if they could exercise it at all. This is white privilege. We’ve already mentioned an example of rich privilege: private schools that nobody else can afford and where rich kids (at least in theory) will get a better education than others. Privilege exists where privileged people create and maintain it. This is one reason it’s insulting to talk of “passing privilege”. What’s the advantage here? Some people are getting harassed, some aren’t. But to talk of “privilege” suggests that passing transpeople had a hand in creating this system whereby some people get harassed and others don’t. Would we say that Morgan Freeman had a hand in creating a system whereby some black men might get shot while others might not? Where does harassment of transpeople come from? From cisgender abhorrence of transgenderism. Now what transperson, passing or non-passing, is responsible for that? The passing transperson, even if they’re not always identified as trans, is no less hated and despised than any other transperson. Yet this term “passing privilege” lumps in the passing transperson with the very people who hate them. I think we’re coming perilously close here to adopting a rather strange attitude: the notion that every transperson deserves equal harassment. If I get harassed today, then some other transperson should as well in order to even things out. It’s not fair if one of my brothers or sisters escapes something that I had to deal with. Rather than blaming those who harassed me, I want to shift my resentment onto someone who didn’t get harassed. You’ve mentioned cisgender privilege, and I’ve decided to say something about that because I think it’s instructive. We tend to simplify complex issues. We fail to note the subtleties where we should and in doing so we can be unjust to certain people. In my little town there is cisgender privilege. E.g., I’ve had some harassment from the secondary school kids here, which means that I’ve had to adopt the strategy of staying away from town during times that the kids are out and about. No cisperson has to do this. They’ve got no reason to worry about those brats. So they enjoy a privilege, and am I going to take them to task for that? No. Why not? Because they’re not guilty. You see, I can explain to someone my need to avoid the kids, and her immediate reaction is, “That’s not fair!” That is, she can see she enjoys a privilege and she immediately acknowledges that that’s not right. We need to appreciate the complexities of the situation. Cisgender privilege came about because cispeople hate transpeople. But that system started up a long time ago. Things are changing now because lots of cispeople are beginning to see that they’re unfair. That is, we need to draw a distinction between those who created and maintained the system and those who merely inherited it and can recognize that it’s wrong and are willing to change it. Changing the system requires education—but an individual who’s willing to change her attitude can’t be blamed for those who aren’t. She has no more control over what they think and do than any of us transpeople do. To blame her for what she doesn’t think or do herself is unjust. And I will defend the people of this town: they’re good people and they’ve been good to me and they are doing what they can, in their own quiet way, to end the harassment of transgender people. They’re not guilty, and I will not blame them for the actions of others, most of whom were living long before any of us were born. There are lots of cispeople out there enjoying cisgender privilege without even realizing that they are, without even thinking about it. That’s a part of privilege: you don’t even have to think about it in order to enjoy it. You just go along with the system. But why don’t they think about it? Because it’s never been called to their attention. Just recently something was called to my attention: the harassment of people with albinism. I never knew anything about that. All my life I’ve been enjoying “non-albinism privilege” without even realizing it. So does that make me a bad person? I hope not. For one thing, I’ve never in my life harassed a person with albinism. And secondly, now that I know about it I’m perfectly willing to do what I can to put a stop to it. But finally because I can’t know everything. There’s no telling how many thousands or millions of problems there are out there in the world that I know nothing about simply because I can’t get around to everything. Give me 10,000 years and I might eventually get around to knowing everything a decent person needs to know. We don’t measure people by what they don’t know—unless they’re wilfully ignorant, which not all of them by any means are. We measure people by how they react when they find out, when they’re put to the test. In my little town I put people to the test. Most of them passed with flying colors. So will I blame them for those who’ve failed? I think we should try to be fair. We’re often guilty of the same things we blame others for, just in a different way. And one way to lose people’s sympathy is by taking them to task for enjoying a privilege that they didn’t create themselves and are perfectly willing to give up.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Mar 13, 2016 23:43:20 GMT 8
Privileged becomes a problem only if the privileged abuse it. The perception that it is being abused by all who inherently have it, is wrong. The perception of a privileged person thinking they don't abuse it, when they do, is wrong. All of these things come in degrees. From inconsequential to outright abuse of those who lack or don't lack that privilege. It's not the privilege, it's the abuse that surrounds it. If there is no abuse, there isn't a problem. If there is enough abuse that it becomes a problem, then it is abuse. The word privileged has become a throw word for abuse. I blame the media for creating a problem with a word that is only there when abused, they abused journalistic privilege. But only those 'journalists' who abused their privilege. If I used any privilege to say the above, I apologize for my ignorance concerning any privilege I have to comment.
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Post by Taka on Mar 14, 2016 1:48:14 GMT 8
i have white privilege when i move outside the area i'm from. but only outside, because whiteness doesn't help where people know my ethnicity to be indigenous. always feels weird to be treated better than a more colorful person than myself. it doesn't make sense, after having been excluded and had to endure all kinds of insults because of my ethnicity myself.
i also have to endure a whole lot of awkward sides to cis privilege, like getting fashion tips that i didn't ask for, men smiling at me as if i were candy, men letting me go inside first just because...
i'd rather not belong. white privilege will help me stay alive though. really unfair for trans people of color, but all i can do is be myself and try to help the ones i meet.
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Post by Shan on Mar 14, 2016 1:59:55 GMT 8
Ok, so then we all object to cis priveledge too? After all its the same thing. And white priveledge and me priveledge. No? Yeah baby, because as you know no one gives other people privilege especially the Shanster, we take what we want from life. If we settle for the chaff, than that's all we get.
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Post by Kira on Mar 14, 2016 2:35:51 GMT 8
Then there was a time, e.g., in the US when all white people, rich, poor, male, female, could vote without any problem. Black people on the other hand could face considerable difficulties in exercising their right to vote (which theoretically they did have), if they could exercise it at all. This is white privilege. According to the definition given of why passing priveledge doesn't exist (non removal of fundamental rights isn't a priveledge, rather it's a nothing) then, as being able to vote, isn't a privilege, it's a right. My point is that, tho priveledge is perhaps a poor choice of words, it still exists, and in almost all its forms, it's about not being treated poorly, rather than somebody saying congratulations you are white/male/cis/passing; here have a lollipop. We can't say that passing priveledge doesn't exist, it does, I know, I have it, and when I didn't have it, I knew about it. Whether that 'priveledge' is that I am able to vote without harassment because I am white, or being able to pee in the loos without people shouting at me, it's there. There is a label for it, it might be poorly labelled but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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