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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2016 23:17:07 GMT 8
I've had a couple people tell me how I never came across, pre-transition, as feminine or as having any signs that I would have identified as a woman. That tells me that, despite the immense diversity of expression among women, people still default to this idea that femininity is entirely in aesthetic and body language; that we're all just supposed to be girly, wear pink, giggle and have crushes on boys. Even if this were the case, making these characteristics apparent could compromise one's safety and security.
Personally, I've never really expressed any stereotypical masculinity, either. That would equally assume that all men must act macho, have muscles, be aggressive, and dominate a room; and that's not always true. This extreme polarising of gender is not only ignorant, but silly. People of all genders express themselves in all kinds of ways.
Why do we have to fit some stereotypical set of qualities and behaviors? Why do we have to wear dresses and heels, flail our arms around, and dance around the house to Katy Perry? Not that those things are bad, but not all women are like that. It has very little to do with gender, otherwise everyone would act uniformly and that would be boring. We are just far more complex creatures to be that way innately.
I wrote this following piece a while back on how I define femininity. This is my personal philosophy, and it has very little influence on my personal style, or my body language, or my overall expressiveness:
◬ "Femininity, to me, is a force of energy that encompasses life with love, compassion, and the inherent desire to nurture and protect what is precious, holy and beautiful.
It is the essence of all that is calm, soft, expressive, and flowing. It is being emotionally connected rather than emotionally repressed. It’s about a kind of vulnerability that allows you to make that connection with finesse. It is intuition rather than calculation.
Both the masculine and the feminine display strength, except masculine strength comes from tension whereas feminine strength comes from flexibility. It is also not about being submissive and appeasing.
It’s about being true to yourself, finding your inner strength and self respect." ◬
I know who I am. You know who you are. My gender identity is unwavering, and I will always love what I love, and express myself that comes to me naturally. So will you. If that's not "feminine" enough for someone to justify our transition, then they need to take a much closer look at the world around them.
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Post by Ayla on Jan 17, 2016 13:47:41 GMT 8
This was eerily similar to a comment that my father made. He still doesn't believe that I am trans. So long as he respects my 'lived experience' then I can deal with it. I can't expect him to have seen the internal struggles and stress that my dysphoria caused me. So I am ok with him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2016 3:00:36 GMT 8
Before I came out, I don't think anyone would have suspected me of any trans tendencies. Of course, if they'd seen all the closet crossdressing I was doing, I think that would have changed their minds in a hurry. When you have to repress, you can be pretty good at it.
Of course there's another question: suppose you meet somebody who never knew you before you came out. Would they suspect you of any masculine tendencies?
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Post by Ayla on Jan 18, 2016 3:40:08 GMT 8
Ok if they had caught me cross dressing then they would have known, but everything else was an act designed to present as a binary, alpha male and I was good at it. There is no way that folk would have known from observing me what I was experiencing. Any trans tendencies were well hidden, denied and entirely covered by my binary act.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2016 3:50:58 GMT 8
Ok if they had caught me cross dressing then they would have known, but everything else was an act designed to present as a binary, alpha male and I was good at it. There is no way that folk would have known from observing me what I was experiencing. Any trans tendencies were well hidden, denied and entirely covered by my binary act. I could have written this myself. Maybe I did. Aisla, have you been reading my diary?
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Post by Ayla on Jan 18, 2016 4:12:10 GMT 8
Guilty as charged????! But I promise that I won't quote from any of the more salacious entries. It is a good read.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2016 4:28:08 GMT 8
Feel free to quote whatever you like. I have to make a name for myself somehow, and it's getting late in the day now. If that's the only way to do it, then that's the only way to do it.
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Post by Trinity on Jan 18, 2016 5:25:22 GMT 8
I waana read it....
Good thread. I never could avoid of effeminicy, and the brutal consequences , so the guy part got very strong and protective, and they cruelly forced it out of me. The rage over that remains profound. Funny thing is i would not know i was effeminite, just would be told later i embarrassed everyone and was shameful. Leaving me hopeless and in despair with zero self esteem.
Now i actually need it, when out she. But more and more i dont care, tired of the bs.
Great write River, i appreciated it.
I was obviously trans from the start.
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Post by Trinity on Jan 18, 2016 9:37:52 GMT 8
Ok if they had caught me cross dressing then they would have known, but everything else was an act designed to present as a binary, alpha male and I was good at it. There is no way that folk would have known from observing me what I was experiencing. Any trans tendencies were well hidden, denied and entirely covered by my binary act. Im gunna be looking at this thread a lot i can tell. Rivers description of femininity fits me head on. Anyone dissagree? So...i like biker jackets and my motorcycle cruiser and racecars and football. Is that gendered? Its the energy i feel that i gender as male, female or andro. And that swings...but more to a new gender for me, a unique sense of self not girl not guy but trans, and feminine trans for sure. Its a sense of self i can embrace and love, its attractive as me, not as passing, so much, but as a very sensual and fiercely loving and romantic person. That part is very real, very true. I want to be a transperson like that. It is worthy of self esteem, its a new gender, its me. Does that make sense? That i want to be sh'e so badly, and reject the status quo? To be the gorgeous woman of the 70's style in an environment of silk and candles and incense and feelings? That is truly who i am. The rest is all components taking control, but sh'e is always, always there. No wonder i was effeminate. I am becoming the same person i was at puberty in some ways, before i deliberately tried to be a real boy. I never did fit in... Love you all dear ones. As foxxy and Aisla said we get damn good at only showing what is safe to show. Yeah a real good read this thread is. Trinity
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Post by EchelonHunt on Jan 18, 2016 12:18:04 GMT 8
I agree with the philosophy on femininity, just not the aspect on masculine strength coming from tension and basically being limited.
Masculinity can be beautiful and flexible as well. To say masculine strength is basically the opposite of flexibility and from tension is IMO, speaking from the experience of having masculinity suppress and limit who you are.
Being masculine or having masculine strength is not inherently a bad thing.
It would be like if I said masculine strength is beautiful and flexible, whereas femininity is not. But I don't say that because I believe both qualities are equal to one another.
The mentality of transwomen hating masculinity and transmen hating femininity, I can understand why because having spent years of being forced into a role that was not anything who I was...
But I can't understand the mentality behind why people try to make one superior over the other. Why? What's the point?
For transwomen, embracing femininity doesn't make you any superior, any better than a transwomen who embraces their masculinity. For transmen, embracing masculinity doesn't make you any superior, any better than transmen who embrace their femininity.
I spent years, yep, you read right - years of hating myself and feeling insecure about myself because I had transmen and the general transcommunity (at the time) hammer into my skull that if I was feminine or liked "feminine activities", I couldn't possibly be a transman or "trans enough" in their eyes.
After that, I had my family, repeatedly tell me that I am too feminine to be a boy, that I liked too many "girly things" therefore I couldn't be a boy.
This in turn, forced me to reject all feminine qualities and aspects of myself and tried to be as masculine as possible. It worked for a while, but then over the years, the misery, the depression slowly sunk in.
Being feminine is something that is part of who I am, I learned that it's OKAY to be a feminine transman. Femininity is not anything that I fear anymore.
Being feminine doesn't and should never invalidate my identity as a boy.
Now that I've accepted being feminine, I've come to learn my masculine traits aren't definable by what society views masculinity as.
My masculinity is as gentle as the waves and cascades into my femininity as one entity. It's a balance that allows me to feel both without depriving myself by siding with one over the other.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2016 16:53:28 GMT 8
It'll be out in hardback in the spring. Of course if you want to wait for the paperback, that'll be along a few months later. It's called "Dirty Thoughts, Dirty Deeds." Like it? As foxxy and Aisla said we get damn good at only showing what is safe to show. A couple of days ago I watched the film, "The Butler", starring Forest Whittaker, et. al. One point caught my attention: there was talk there about "the face" a black servant has to put on while he's serving. He shows people what he knows they want to see. When he's off duty, he'll have another face. But while he's on, he has to show a certain "face". Which reminded me of something else. I once read a book by Toni Morrison (I forget which one now), but a black character in the story remarked, "They make you hate yourself." When you're a minority, you're a minority, and you have some things in common with other minorities.
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Post by Trinity on Jan 18, 2016 18:45:17 GMT 8
Jayce": My masculinity is as gentle as the waves and cascades into my femininity as one entity. It's a balance that allows me to feel both without depriving myself by siding with one over the other"
This. Without it comes gendersplit and mental hell for me and many other nb's.
I agree with Jayce on it. Since i hang with nbs i dont get trans pressures...we dont on this forum either...those pressures are all social. Internally i am glad for the mix since its all good stuff regardless of what its called.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 5:46:27 GMT 8
Well Illumines. I am kind of in a different boat than you. Most people knew or know something wasn't quite right with me being a boy then a man. I have been suspected of every aspect of the rainbow and now more people assume that I am trans. But I have been called a sissy or gay, or a cross dresser when I was younger. Remember I come from a small city in the south that are just now understanding the aspect of trans. But most saw the girl tendencies in me no matter how hard I tried to hide them. As for what you wrote Jayce. Neither one is limited. Masculinity compliments femininity and vice versa regardless of your birth genetalia. Neither is limited but two halves make a whole. I am more feminine and look for more masculine than myself but that doesn't mean they can't have feminine qualities though. I have some masculine qualities like standing to pee and don't want bottom surgery although the little fucker hides most of the time. I mean there is no one size fits all but... When the right combination of a mixture of masculinity and femininity between two people are a good match then that is when you find your soul mate. OK that sounds really sappy. But maybe, just maybe, there may be something to it. What is femininity without masculinity? What is masculinity without femininity. Neither one is anything in this life. Kind of like how can you judge good without evil or evil without good? How can you judge day without night and night without day? As humans we need polarity. Male and female but most people have aspects of both in their personality and don't even know it. Most just identify with one or the other and even trans is not excluded from this. I am more feminine so I am drawn to more masculine people regardless of genetalia. But I am also drawn to feminine beauty and the whole sh'bang. But I have known some lipstick lesbians that were girly but in the same time masculine too. More than me. And we really complimented each other. Hell I even lived with a woman that pushed me to be feminine. Of course she didn't have to push that hard, more like raise my confidence enough to be open with her. She loved it and she wore less skirts and more jeans, Tshirts and Tennis shoes than me. I wore the girly shit. She had a closet full of dresses, skirts, tops, bottoms and shoes and let me have free reign. We were the same size. I took a lot with me when I left. I paid her for the clothing and shoes though. She decided she needed a real man after all. And I found a real man after all too. The kicker is that mine was more manly than hers. I don't think any of this matter though as long as the personalities of the two people are compatible. When it comes to gender, that is complicated because there is no one that seems to be 100% either way. Yeah some may fool themselves into thinking that they are 100% one or the other but, I don't think so though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 10:55:21 GMT 8
I never implied that masculinity was bad or wrong, just different in its expression. To say that it comes from tension means that it comes from a place of stoic strength and resilience, when femininity is more about patience and emotional endurance. Testosterone is about action more than it is cognition. Even though men have been portrayed as thinkers, I guarantee you that such men were more in touch with their feminine side than they may have let on for social status reasons. Estrogen rules cognition making women, essentially, the smarter creatures; but Estrogen also is responsible for more depression. Smart people are usually the most depressed. Men deal with it less, and when they do it usually involves escape rather than resolution. Therefore, tension versus flexibility.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Jan 19, 2016 13:35:51 GMT 8
Boiling estrogen and testosterone down to the stereotypes or traits commonly associated with women and men is harmful and does not help anybody.
Hormones alone do not determine how a man or a woman acts. Hormones are a small part of the much bigger process; personality, current circumstances, biology, upbringing, past experiences, trauma, mental illness, etc.
Treating estrogen as a "female" hormone and testosterone as a "male" hormone is just ill-willed as both men and women have estrogen and testosterone in their system.
Strength, resilience, patience, emotional endurance, intelligence, one's coping methods, fight-flight response is not dependent on gender.
I suspect you are letting your past experiences with men colour your perception of them. The father who slapped Sophie is not a representative for all men in the world. Just because he chose to throw a slap instead of thinking things through doesn't mean all men rely on action over cognition.
IMHO, it feels like you are embodying the father behind the word, "men/tension" and yourself behind the word "women/flexibility".
By all means, if it makes you feel better to outline the traits you have over the traits the father failed to exhibit, it can be enlightening to step back and see how advanced you are compared to somebody else.
Just please refrain from making sweeping statements as if they are fact when it's really your biased view of gender. You can feel plenty empowered as a woman without having to shit on men in the process.
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