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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 3:44:42 GMT 8
Gay, straight, bisexual... such terms have confounded me, especially in high-school during my "What's-my-sexuality?" questioning period. I struggled to define my sexuality, only roughly five days ago, I came to the stunning revelation that my sexuality is undefined or exists outside the sexual orientation norm entirely since I identify as genderless. Sexual orientation requires a person's gender identity to mirror their sex (male gender identity = male or FTM body, vice versa for the beautiful ladies). At least, that's what I think. I am genderless. My biological sex is (currently) female but will be physically male in the future. I do not even conform to gender roles during sex. I am submissive even when I am being in the dominant role. Ya know... Jamie said I'm a gentleman. She's right. I really am a gentle man in bed Ok, ok, not to go off topic.
Learning to pass. Hm. I like that even with my deep voice, I still get mistaken as a girl. Good times! I do want to do voice training but I figure it's just best letting my real self come out in my voice. I agree, Trinity, no more pretending. Let it wander. Have we ever stayed completely on topic here? Sometimes Conversations need to morph. One thing leads to another. "physically male in the future. I do not even conform to gender roles during sex. I am submissive even when I am being in the dominant role." This quote is from you. Do you know how many cis males are submissive to their cis female counterparts? It is most definitely complicated. Just because you fell submissive to a woman doesn't mean you are actually submissive. It just means her wants, needs, wishes and likes are important. Being the dominant doesn't mean being a butthole to your woman. It just means taking care of her and protecting her from anyone that wants to hurt her and telling her what you need and want too. Ok so in my least post in this just before this post. I want to be cherished. I demand respect for who I am. I want to be loved. I want to be made to feel like I am the center of some guy's world. I want to have my door opened for me. I want my chair pulled out for me. I want my drink poured for me. I want to be treated like a princess or queen. Both throughout history have been domineering and dare I say, bitches. In the same token. I want to wear what makes my partner happy. Wear what he finds sexy and turns him on. Wear my hair the way he likes it. Cook something that he likes to eat. Do wa\hatever he wants to make him happy in bed. So. I am both too. Most people are. Dominance and submissiveness is complicated. It is between you and your lover and no one else. But much like anything else it takes equal parts of both parties to have a successful relationship with someone. There are a lot of guys that go to dominatrixes to be dominated and humiliated and there are a lot of women that like to be tied up by their boyfriends or husbands or maybe even professional outlets to feel helpless and relinquish control. Maybe be spanked or feel humiliated and just because we are trans doesn't mean that we are immune to these feelings and desires. But just because you feel dominate and submissive at times doesn't make you any less or more of a man or woman.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 14, 2015 3:56:20 GMT 8
Sexual identity vs gender... My wife pointed to my penis and said...you are a man...yesterday. I reacted but held my tongue. Yes, part is. Part is not. Let her think whatever she wants.... Its the love that matters to me. Not who she thinks i am. TSJ So much here in so few words. It is human nature to want more. Having spent so much of my life learning to understand, to respect and to love myself, perhaps my need to have my wife reflect this is unreasonable, but it is my dream. It is a need, a hunger, which has only been partly sated. Will this be enough or will this continue to eat away at me? Today my wife asked how my conversation went with my younger brother when I told him that I was trans. I said that he had asked how she was. I said that provided I didn't fully transition that she was good, but if I transitioned she "wouldn't stay as she didn't see herself as lesbian." My wife immediately challenged me and said "why did you say this when you said that you told me that you were non binary and didn't need to transition!" It wasn't the time to clarify what I said. There wasn't the time to explain that some non binaries find that they need to transition. The journey continues.... safe travels Aisla Explaining will bury you. Just be.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 14, 2015 8:52:42 GMT 8
Sexual identity vs gender... My wife pointed to my penis and said...you are a man...yesterday. I reacted but held my tongue. Yes, part is. Part is not. Let her think whatever she wants.... Its the love that matters to me. Not who she thinks i am. TSJ So much here in so few words. It is human nature to want more. Having spent so much of my life learning to understand, to respect and to love myself, perhaps my need to have my wife reflect this is unreasonable, but it is my dream. It is a need, a hunger, which has only been partly sated. Will this be enough or will this continue to eat away at me? Today my wife asked how my conversation went with my younger brother when I told him that I was trans. I said that he had asked how she was. I said that provided I didn't fully transition that she was good, but if I transitioned she "wouldn't stay as she didn't see herself as lesbian." My wife immediately challenged me and said "why did you say this when you said that you told me that you were non binary and didn't need to transition!" It wasn't the time to clarify what I said. There wasn't the time to explain that some non binaries find that they need to transition. The journey continues.... safe travels Aisla I can't leave this with a flippant Just Be comment. I also have no time, am on deadline, have folks around me that would peek at my writing, and am hard at work on a Sunday night listening to Christmas carols. My eyebrows are done and I am presenting male, if the door was closed I would be presenting nonbinary in full. As in cami and jeans and no makeup or hair. And womens slippers. I am accepted this way, but she perceives me as a nonbinary male. A guy with extras. Maybe a crossdresser on hormones. I don't know. Its not my business, my business is to try not to awaken her fear that I will go into a state that she can no longer accept. As time has gone on the envelope has increasingly been pushed, but rubber bands break, and I stretched my woman as far as I dare. I spent the weekend in fear that my new eyebrows would trigger her. I think they have, but we are still status quo, yet I am on eggshells, not wishing to take her over her own edge. I talk often to allay her fear, I tell her I am a half and half, I know surgery is not appropriate for me in my reality and I continue to assure her of this. I playfully flash that thing between my legs, so she knows I still have one, we laugh at it as being a "dead bird" but no matter. She sees and understands what she needs to in order to rationalize the relationship in a way that is acceptable to her needs. That is a good thing, that is what is needed with me. My pain of dysphoria I keep to myself or share on the forum, I will tell her if it is up, but nothing more. Its been brutal lately, we all know that, social dysphoria has been eating me alive, but I remain ok. Using my tools, staying conscious of the blend inside. I have an advantage as I can fully present now when outside in those meetings, and the level of honesty is such that she knows there is a wig in my androgynous bag that I carry. But I never, ever trigger the full transition fear in her. Let it live in me, let it live here in this forum. Who knows what DES does, experience teaches it increases the trans gravitation to a binary transition and is progressive over time. But so little has been known of nonbinary trans I cannot subscribe to this scenario. We are the pioneers, we really are. She knows DES is progressive. We don't know where it leads. We live in the now. So, just be. Short and sweet. Trans is a bittersweet experience, its hard on everyone. Late transition is. I am a little tired at the funny stares by strangers as I am more androgynous and visually nonbinary than ever now, the young girls look down their noses at me. And then get weirded out because since I am attracted to women that vibe is around. I take what my wife can give, yes it hurts that she cannot take me fully sh'e. Sh'e comes darned close. Its about progress is it not? Its about the tiny gains that can come. A voice nuance, a love tone. Anything. Let them embrace what they can, let them learn to love the rest when they are ready. We have to be the big boys and girls and peoplefolk and carry that need on our very strong trans shoulders. There is great hope in this. And who can predict transitions end if you are nonbinary? Transition has its endgame and endpoint, but my point is that its how you play that to win. Minute by minute, how you play and win the game, every day. Love her unconditionally. In the end, that is what will win the day, imo. And just do what you have to do. If she asks again later, I suppose you can tell her you are ramping it up. But you are still nonbinary, and while physical transition may become and has become imperative, what we show to others is up to us. Like dropping the strap of your gown. You do it at the right moment, not too early, not too late. It is a transpersons feminine joy, the revelation of who we are, inside, and in the flesh. Love you my dear friend. Be careful darling. You both deserve that, you deserve happiness and joy, you have come so very far. Trinity
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Post by Ayla on Dec 14, 2015 12:29:20 GMT 8
TSJ
I have been ok with taking this slowly and have been quite determinedly non binary throughout. But I am now finding that I am no longer as definite or as clear in my thinking as to where I am headed. More and more I sense a different possibility and I know the consequence if this is pursued. If this is where I head I think that at the point that I know this to be my intent I have to share this with my wife. This is what I promised and it is only fair to her. Of course if her concerns only relate to my lower anatomy and I have some latitude in terms of presentation this may prove to be enough... but I do sense and understand from other NB folk that it was easier and safer to present as NB having transitioned to female. Time will tell, but there is no doubt that the higher levels of E are changing my perceptions of my self and possibility.
Safe travels
Aisla
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Post by Trinity on Dec 14, 2015 13:25:08 GMT 8
Yeah you're right on all counts. I think it was fearspeak on my part, concern for you and her.
I wonder what my path will be.
No matter what happens, i, and the rest of us, are here for you.
Praying for you dear one.
Quite the journey. Kind of relentless, who we are is, cant outrun ourselves.
Trinity/Satinjoy
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Post by Leena on Dec 14, 2015 13:45:10 GMT 8
I wouldn't really worry about it that much, I think the gay label is going to bother most trans people, because some use it as an explanation of all we are, and that's not at all accurate, whether we are bi or only attracted to men, or women, there is so much more going on than who we are attracted to. Sexual orientation and gender identity are two separate things, they maybe shouldn't get lumped together, but don't lump all LGB people together either, some are more understanding than others. I've yet to have that sort of breakup, though I haven't really been in any relationship that was all that serious. This I really understand. And I try to let my friends in that community know how I feel. Some are understanding. Some think because you like an outie stuck up your back door no matter how you feel like the other gender says you are gay then... Well maybe so. I don't see guys that like me and treat me like a woman as gay. I don't see myself as gay either for surrendering myself to him. It may be considered gay but the attraction isn't necessarily sexual organs as it is gender expression. Yeah it may sound stereotypical and I know I will probably catch flack from it but I want to be cherished as a woman when I am with a guy. Hold me during a storm. Open doors for me. Put your arm around me. pay for dinner. Pull the chair out for me and let me sit first. Hell the guy can even order for me as long as he knows what I want. Buy me jewelry that is special to you toward me. I will watch all the football or even go to games with you. I will watch movies that I have no desire to see other than with him as long as he is with me. So yeah I guess I am a stereotype. OMG Veronica. I have had more breakups than I care to admit. With men and women. I cry and then I get over it. It may take a while but I do wear my heart on my sleeve so... I like the romance and the intimacy. The sex is just an added bonus. I haven't had as many relationships and thus breakups because I want to be act like a girl from the beginning. I don't want to make the first move, I just want to sit there looking good and have women approach me. On the rare occasion they do, I don't want to make most of the moves. I don't want to choose where we go on dates, or pay for them either. This sort of thing happens rarely, it is not the normal social order of things, though it does happen occasionally. Most of my girlfriends have not been lipstick lesbians in denial, more like butch lesbians in denial...
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Post by Trinity on Dec 14, 2015 17:58:01 GMT 8
Thrill of the chase. Yup.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2015 6:04:31 GMT 8
Aisla and Trinity. Life is in a constant state of change. How many men and women fall madly in love and then decide many years later that they can't stand one or the other or both? I know people that were married 20+ years and divorced. Had kids and grandkids even.
I don't want to sound like a callous bitch but if it does come down to reaching farther to find yourself and be happy with yourself then we have to do what we have to do. But we have to make those choices. I made mine and you two will have to make yours if you can't find a happy medium. Hell I am drifting so far out of my comfort zone now that I am becoming more comfortable with where I'm going. But that is also something I am choosing to do. Pushing the hell out of the boundaries even dressed as a guy.
But when the time comes to go farther then you will know. For me its sort of like an extra strong electromagnet that someone just switched on. For your partners though, ease into it and let them acclimate to it on their own time. This is just advice though. Whether it works or not depends on a lot of different variables.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2015 6:49:05 GMT 8
This I really understand. And I try to let my friends in that community know how I feel. Some are understanding. Some think because you like an outie stuck up your back door no matter how you feel like the other gender says you are gay then... Well maybe so. I don't see guys that like me and treat me like a woman as gay. I don't see myself as gay either for surrendering myself to him. It may be considered gay but the attraction isn't necessarily sexual organs as it is gender expression. Yeah it may sound stereotypical and I know I will probably catch flack from it but I want to be cherished as a woman when I am with a guy. Hold me during a storm. Open doors for me. Put your arm around me. pay for dinner. Pull the chair out for me and let me sit first. Hell the guy can even order for me as long as he knows what I want. Buy me jewelry that is special to you toward me. I will watch all the football or even go to games with you. I will watch movies that I have no desire to see other than with him as long as he is with me. So yeah I guess I am a stereotype. OMG Veronica. I have had more breakups than I care to admit. With men and women. I cry and then I get over it. It may take a while but I do wear my heart on my sleeve so... I like the romance and the intimacy. The sex is just an added bonus. I haven't had as many relationships and thus breakups because I want to be act like a girl from the beginning. I don't want to make the first move, I just want to sit there looking good and have women approach me. On the rare occasion they do, I don't want to make most of the moves. I don't want to choose where we go on dates, or pay for them either. This sort of thing happens rarely, it is not the normal social order of things, though it does happen occasionally. Most of my girlfriends have not been lipstick lesbians in denial, more like butch lesbians in denial... I guess it depends on what you are looking for. Nothing wrong with Butch lesbians. Hell I love 'em because they are more masculine that I am. But a lot of lesbians are attracted to the V. Some are attracted to a real life strap on but... Some lipstick lesbians don't really care because they like the femininity. Some are attracted to the V but in my experience most are attracted to the femininity. Like I said, all of this is from my experiences. I had a live in girlfriend when I was younger that was a little older but pushed me to open up to her. She knew from the beginning. She told me she knew and she was OK with it but even though there was love and intimacy, there was also a friendship that seemed like "friends with benefits". Playing with one another's hair, sharing clothes (yes we were the same size), shoes, (again the same size) and makeup and makeup tips. We would go out and just tease guys like kissing each other in the club, rubbing each other's thighs before it became illegal and disorderly conduct or indecent exposure. Back then I could have been considered a trap but we always went home together. Alone with one another. She had what she liked and I screwed it up because of my age. I was 19. I wanted the guys too. So I met a guy and we said our goodbyes. She was 27 and he was 35 and he melted my heart from the beginning at the time. But again I was young and dumb and screwed that up too. But don't worry about the quantity of relationships but the quality and perserverence of the relationship. I would rather have one perfect relationship with an extremely special person than a hundred that are meaningless. Although I have loved everyone I have been with, most of the time, but finding that special someone is priceless. Besides I have been lucky and never had any STDs or HIV. That is one thing that you have to make sure of is that someone is clean and disease free. It doesn't take but one time and many good people have contracted HIV and or STDs from one night of fun. So hold out for that special someone. They are out there. Hold out for them regardless whether they may be a guy or trans man that likes trans women and will treat you like a princess, a butch lesbian that will treat you like a woman, a lipstick lesbian that you can share so much femininity with or whoever else. I know I'm not one to talk with how many relationships that I have had but now... I'm holding out for that really special person.
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Post by Leena on Dec 15, 2015 13:18:30 GMT 8
It wasn't so much what I was looking for, but who were interested in me. There have been some other types as well, it doesn't really matter. Some people, in general focus so much more on what they are attracted to and not enough as to those who are attracted to them. How I present, however, does seem to change somewhat, who is attracted to me. Oddly, I'm finding more women flirting with me, now that I'm presenting more and more feminine. This wasn't really so much the case when I first experimented with this via the online dating thing, but there everything is all spelled out and I think they are just seeing me as a generic transgender person, which they might have some reservations with, as opposed to the somewhat mysterious, stylish, androgynous (and hopefully hot and sexy) me I present as in person.
It's not so much the few part of few and far between, but the far between part that's bothering me right now. Really though mainly, it's just I haven't had anything close to a relationship since I stopped being in denial, or what lead up to that, for that matter. I thought I'd take some time to myself to sort things out, though I don't know that things are going to get much more sorted out. In some ways now, I feel like a teenager that hasn't ever been on a date again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2015 17:18:16 GMT 8
But don't worry about the quantity of relationships but the quality and perserverence of the relationship. I would rather have one perfect relationship with an extremely special person than a hundred that are meaningless. I feel the same way; I would rather be alone than be with the wrong person. Who the right person would be in regard to identity; well, for me all that matters in the end is the Spirit of the person and if we feel a true connection; gender becomes irrelevant then.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 15, 2015 19:28:08 GMT 8
But don't worry about the quantity of relationships but the quality and perserverence of the relationship. I would rather have one perfect relationship with an extremely special person than a hundred that are meaningless. I feel the same way; I would rather be alone than be with the wrong person. Who the right person would be in regard to identity; well, for me all that matters in the end is the Spirit of the person and if we feel a true connection; gender becomes irrelevant then. Well said. A marriage is like that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2015 10:55:25 GMT 8
It wasn't so much what I was looking for, but who were interested in me. There have been some other types as well, it doesn't really matter. Some people, in general focus so much more on what they are attracted to and not enough as to those who are attracted to them. How I present, however, does seem to change somewhat, who is attracted to me. Oddly, I'm finding more women flirting with me, now that I'm presenting more and more feminine. This wasn't really so much the case when I first experimented with this via the online dating thing, but there everything is all spelled out and I think they are just seeing me as a generic transgender person, which they might have some reservations with, as opposed to the somewhat mysterious, stylish, androgynous (and hopefully hot and sexy) me I present as in person. It's not so much the few part of few and far between, but the far between part that's bothering me right now. Really though mainly, it's just I haven't had anything close to a relationship since I stopped being in denial, or what lead up to that, for that matter. I thought I'd take some time to myself to sort things out, though I don't know that things are going to get much more sorted out. In some ways now, I feel like a teenager that hasn't ever been on a date again. I mean we really have our "fans" whether men, women, bi, lesbian, gay or bi. You just need to weed out the ones that are too curious. Curiosity is not a good thing in most cases. It is just more or less Experimental. So the best advice I can give is find someone that are confident in who they are and who they love no matter what. There will be fare betweens unless you put yourself out there. As for feeling like a teenager that hasn't ever been on a date (again). I wish. If you are MTF maybe it is time to try the more masculine partners, FTM or male. Being trans and girly with a lipstick partner is a pretty much fantasy. Oh yeah it can happen but... Give me the more masculine because I want to be uniquely female in a relationship. One word of advice? Never limit yourself or your love for someone else. You may find a lipstick that happens to be a trans woman too. If she does have an outie instead of an innie, just revel and appreciate her femininity.
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Post by Leena on Dec 16, 2015 14:16:59 GMT 8
I haven't had many lipstick partners, and those were very short lived. While I said butch initially, and have been with that, a lot also were more tomboy, not wearing makeup, but still with long hair, and wearing women's jeans and a T-shirt usually. Kind of like me. I'm also not all that sure I buy into the idea that opposites attract. I'm not opposed to being with a trans woman, maybe that would be perfect for me. I have tried with a few FTM online thinking that might be the perfect compliment to me, and while we had a lot in common, and long, interesting conversations, the attraction just wasn't there at all, and there is even less so for guys.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Dec 16, 2015 16:19:16 GMT 8
If I was with a guy (cis, FTM or transmasculine), it wouldn't make me feel less of a guy in terms of how I feel body-wise. If I was with a girl (cis, MTF or transfeminine), it wouldn't make me feel less of a girl in terms of how I feel presentation-wise. @jamie - Why do you have to be with a guy or a masculine girl to feel uniquely female in the relationship? You can feel plenty empowered as a female on your own, irregardless of whose arms are wrapped around you in a loving embrace. I would be open to dating anyone regardless of sexuality or gender identity. I just choose not to at the moment because I have way too many things to juggle to even think about dating. It's when people have: - exceedingly high expectations of me
- fall in love with the idea of love rather than me as a person
- refuse to accept that my body is female and not male yet
is where the relationship goes downhill. Humans are flawed after all, even in their ways of loving.
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