An example of hostile depression

[EchelonHunt]

As Castiel said to Dean on Supernatural, "You can't save everyone, my friend."

[Deleted]

May 7, 2015 9:17:59 GMT 8 EchelonHunt said:

As Castiel said to Dean on Supernatural, "You can't save everyone, my friend."

It's true, but we can damn well try!

By the way, I've just started on Season 8 of Supernatural. It took me forever to get through Season 7 it sucked so bad.

[Deleted]

May 7, 2015 9:17:59 GMT 8 EchelonHunt said:

As Castiel said to Dean on Supernatural, "You can't save everyone, my friend."

Some people don't want to be saved. That is where the problem lies. Personally when I'm depressed which is all the time pretty much so Bipolar my ass. Sometimes I do lash out at people but not very often. Do I want to feel better? That is a question that I really can't even answer myself. Do I even really want help? Not really. Sometimes when dysphoria hits yeah but being depressed, not so much. If I was really happy and dandy, then I would fear death. I don't fear death. So... The depression as bad as it is allows me to have an "I don't give a fuck" attitude. Depression is a bad thing and I am really starting to believe that that is as big a part of me as being trans is and has helped shaped me to who I am today. No I am not suicidal but don't care if tomorrow ever comes for me either so...

I really don't think I want to lose the depression. I have lived with it so long and have learned how to use it maybe???? Sometimes I think I am really messed up mentally and other times I think everyone else is that is truly happy.  Anyway I wouldn't say that I've conquered depression, but I wouldn't say it has conquered me either. I think I may have learned to live with it over the years. I've definitely learned to hide it at least. I can't explain it. It sounds crazy I know.

[Taka]

since you're actually interested in help people as a therapist...:

answering aggression with aggression, particularly passive aggression, will not help at all.
do not take anything the other person says personally, particularly not their distrust in how much you really care.

quoting even yourself can be found offensive, because the person is dealing with "right now" and the quote is already way older than the moment.
if they don't like it, just accept that and move on to the next strategy. it's just like those kids' toys, the cube doesn't fit in the round hole.
your first remedy didn't fit the person's depression. there's no point in trying to explain that you meant it well when it didn't work.
saves you a lot of grief to just let it go.

when your remedy doesn't fit, some will take it out on you.
is there a need? actually, they may feel a need to take it out on someone or something.
you'll have to be prepared for this when trying to help depressed people.
if they aren't in the mood to look for more positive ways of thinking, you could just as well ask what they are in the mood for.
sometimes, all they really want is to rant, and they want some random victim to listen to them.

sometimes, you can help people by agreeing that the situation is absolutely terrible.
and then ask if there's anything at all they can do about it, after they're done ranting. or if there's anything you can do to help.


let me ask you though, what mood were you in yourself when you posted your quote?

[Ativan Prescribed]

Clinical depression can not be stopped by any one method.
I know this very well, I have to do it myself when it hits.
Yesterday was one of the worse in a long time, I'm surprised it has subsided somewhat this morning.
Yesterday was the 'back away slowly and you won't get hurt' kind of depressed.

Remnants of it still exist and I wouldn't want anyone to interfere with the process of getting rid of it, it will make it worse no matter what your intentions are.
It's my problem, not yours, don't fucking make it yours, it takes away from what I'm doing to get rid of that in the first place.
That's how it works, it isn't about you, so don't get involved in it, you have no idea and I'm not about to tell you so you can further fuck with it, you can't see or feel it like I can.

There is no reason for you to even try, it belongs to me, I'm taking care of it the best I can and there is nothing you can say or do, other than to just give me my space.
Trying to 'fix' any of it is a gross invasion of my space, my privacy, so if I indicate that you need to back off, do it before you get emotionally hurt or worse.
It can easily go either way and it can easily be both.
I can rip you to shreds either way, and you don't need to be torn down just because I have a problem to deal with that is not yours to fuck with.
I don't care what you have to think about it, I just need more space than I usually do, it's a bigger problem than just the normal space I allow anyone to be in.

Do I sound like I'm being a dick about it?
That's your impression and you own it, not me, you interfered in my own way of processing what I need and that's prioritizing what I think is the matter and figuring out what I need to throw out, the stuff that's there that has nothing to do with it, it is just there and in the way.
Once I can get rid of the insignificant bullshit thoughts, I will be more able to tame the ones that I can identify as the problem.

Shit just gets overwhelming and it's not about you or anything that concerns you, so don't try to get yourself dragged into the middle of it.
I have more important things to do than to babysit your feelings as well as my own, this is mine and you have no business in it that concerns you, despite what you perceive, that's yours, you own it, so take it and leave, it is just outside junk that has nothing to do with it, don't even think about leaving it with me, it just adds guilt to the entire process and slows it down.

I'll take care of that when I am better able to and will let you know if I want to, it depends on how you handle it, you shouldn't have tried to get inside my head in the first place, you weren't invited and even if you were, you should have just said you'll be there if I need you.
See? It isn't about you and you have no right to try and make it about you, all intentions aside, you're a distraction from what I'm doing and that is concentrating on how to get out of hell.

It's pretty simple, newbies can get very lost in it, but they will find their way out.
I'm no newbie, I've been doing this all my life and it's much easier to find my way back on my own.
I'm the one who can see what's in front of me and know what to do.
Make it harder by interfering and you just might push it over the next edge and I'll be in permanent hell.
Want to be involved?
Know that you just might end up being the catalyst that throws it over that last and final edge, no matter how good you are or how good your intentions are.

You might be in the equation right now, you just might be a part of the problem and I won't tell you.
Because then I have to stop and explain it and in this kind of emotional collapse, you're gonna hear shit that isn't true and you're not going to like it, so why put yourself through your own hell that I will create out of mine, just for you if you fuck with mine one more time?

That's just the way it goes, if you somehow managed to even figure it out, saying anything is just going to throw off what I have already been working so hard on to stop.
Am I angry? No, not a bit. I'm really busy working my ass off to escape this hell that is mine and it needs space, it's evil and will drag you down into it if it can.
So I'm not mad, angry, it just sounds like it because I don't need the guilt of you falling into this trap yourself, it is after all, mine, so stay out of it.

*Day two of clinical depression that's starting to lift, so let it go, it's being fixed in the ways I know best, I have been on this path many times and you can't see it, because it's mine.
  I can function just fine if I have to, but it just prolongs the ending, so expectations of me by anyone are, at best, annoying, and throwing shit out there for me isn't helping, it's still just getting in the way,
 Just be happy that it is subsiding and that you didn't get hurt in the process, it is that difficult and you never really know and I don't really know how I'm going to react.
 I'm not isolating because I have to be by myself, it is more like keeping you all safe from what depression is capable of dishing out, I have only just so much control over it.
 But hey, it's the next day and I'm still here and you've decided to leave me alone, good choice, that helps more than you can know.
 So thank you for staying out of my head. That's the best you're going to get from me right now, so take it and run with it.
 It's just fine if you want to check in every now and then, just remember to stay out of the space I need.

[Taka]

haha. that's a really good description of it.

but clinical depression is often a little different from being depressed because of circumstances.
when a guy is depressed because he lost his job and can't find a new one no matter how hard he tries, the only way to cure his depression is to give him a job.

there are no beautiful words that can get me a job right now, so i'll pretty much feel like shit as often as every day, though not necessarily every hour, until i get a job. it's not as bad as that sort of depression where i'm caught in my own mind though. when that happens, i can only smile helplessly at your good intentions. right now i can at least laugh and say "thank you".
i'm just too good natured to hate people for not being helpful when they try to help... but some people will bite. even literally.

somehow this whole thing became about "me". or other people's selves.

[Ativan Prescribed]

It wasn't pointed at you, it's just an example of how bad it can be, and as long as I'm going through it right now...
I know the 'other side' of the depression scenario as well, there are easier ways of getting through it, but it sucks just the same.
Depression has facets to it that can be hard to see, to describe. It can be just as hard to help as well.
Hope it works out OK for you.
Ativan

[Deleted]

Flashes everyone, distracting them and either pissing them off or making them laugh....or....Ummmm

Flutters

[Taka]

*cough*

that wasn't pointed at you either, ativan. just another example of how different the experiences can be.

depression is difficult to deal with both for the one suffering and those wanting to help. worrying doesn't help, positivism doesn't help. in the clinical cases where things are just so bad one can't remember not only how it started, but even if it had a start at all and isn't just something that always existed, it seems that giving people the chance to deal with it is the most helpful thing.

my oldest brother was lucky with getting help. a really nice social worker made sure he had sufficient income without having to do any other work for it than seeing a therapist regularly. still took him years to find the way out of it, but at least that social worker didn't make thing worse by suggesting he try something he'd be bound to fail at because he already had enough to deal with inside his own head.

i actually seem to be a whole lot more resilient. even when i was doing really bad, i still got up in the morning and did what society expects people to do, never giving in to my own despair. it's seriously lucky for me that my depression is cyclic, so even when i got stuck pretty far down, i knew that the way up still existed somewhere.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Read an article very recently that researchers were able to stop depression in mice by activating their happy memory spot in their brain.
It was interesting and they talked about how they did it somewhat, but an assumption that they are making, that if it's correct, it might lead to better meds that are completely different from the ones they now use which target pretty much the entire brain and have ones that are more specific to the parts that deal with memories to even possibly stopping depression before it starts, the thinking that there are certain situations that may trigger depression. Otherwise, it just treats depression, possibly eliminating recurring or cyclic depression.

But what I want to know, is how do they know if a mouse is depressed and if it is happy? I mean if they can do that with mice, how can it be so hard to get a diagnosis of it in people?
You have to in many cases attempt to kill yourself before they will call it clinical and then treat it properly, instead of just assuming a little Prozac will go a long ways and if it doesn't, then wait a month and try one of dozens of the same basic antidepressants every month for a couple years before they will finally declare it clinical and go from there.
Two different treatments, two different kinds of depression.
That they can identify that a mouse has depression alone would seem like they could do a little better with people, wouldn't you think?
It wasn't a very in depth article, so I'm sure there is an answer to that, but still...

Depression has a really wide range and types, from sad to suicidal. It would be nice if they came up with something besides variations on drugs that have been around for decades and often the side effects mean drugs to counter those and then even more to counter even more side effects.
They can land a washing machine size thing on a comet hurtling through space at ungodly speed, how many millions of miles away on how long of a journey and despite a bad landing, it phones home anyways. Nice to know we can do that and all and we know a little more about that comet, but the money spent on doing that would go a long ways in finding cures for what ails a person.
Don't even want to talk about how much money is wasted on war machines and research on how to more efficiently kill people. We spend billions of dollars to keep terrorists from not killing people in this country, when so many more people are killing themselves because we don't want to spend the money needed on research to stop that. You'd freak at the amount of money that has been spent on me because they band aide fix mental health problems. I'm just one of thousands who have each cost hundreds of thousands, when they won't spend nearly that much on a research project that might just stop it from having to be a problem in the first place. Mice get depressed, who knew? I hope they find a cure for them as well.

[Taka]

depression is easy to detect in animals because of the assumption that animals act on their instincts.
so when an animal stops doing that without actually being sick, it's obviously depressed.
there may even be blood tests that can confirm an animal's general state of mind. emotions are hormones after all...

but with people, there are all these social norms that get in the way. and gender stereotypes. and all kinds of annoying things.
there's an assumption that people are more intelligent than animals too. i'm not too sure about that.
humans are much better than animals at hiding their emotions though.
so when a person greets the doctor with a smile and wants treatment for depression...

it might also be that the happy people confuse depression with sadness and feeling down, and thus assume it's something that will pass.
we of course also don't want to waste money on giving treatment to people who should be intelligent enough to fix themselves.
aren't most depressed people perceived as lazy rather than suffering from a potentially deadly mental illness?
culture gets in the way of treatment.


triggering happy memories should help a lot for depression.
remembering how good life is, and how much you have to feel grateful for, does give a feeling of happiness.
and being grateful for something means that someone has cared that much about you. that takes away much of the feeling of worthlessness.
sounds like those scientists may be on to something.