nonbinary stealth

[Trinity]

Living nonbinary or trans right under the noses of the cis and them being clueless.

There is "in the closet" and then there is "under the radar".

There is nothing wrong, imo, with living in a hostile world under the radar, while looking for opportunities to win allies as they come up in a more subtle way.  Its the way I do it in many social structures.  But not always.

The traditional trans narrative is to do what you want, transition and let the cards fall where they may.  Usually there is a boatload of collateral damage as a result, and often it turns out to have been a bad choice and it ends in trans suicide.

Repression also creates a pendulum effect, and if hormones are introduced, trans puberty can take it way over the top.  Been there done that.

But there is a way of living it stealth, and easing dypshonia through self knowledge.

There are emotional minefields all over being trans or non binary or both.  We can easily get into a reactive state to the things around us, or into paralysis by fear.

How are you doing with it all personally?

[Trinity]

Ttp

[Leena]

I ended up coming closer to that traditional trans narrative than I once thought I would. I guess how that happened is that when others started actually perceiving me as a woman, I wanted to do everything I could so that more people would perceive me that way, rather than as a guy.

Most of the time that is. I kind of prefer presenting more androgynous when I'm in situations I expect I'll have to show ID or be called my legal name. I still get gendered as a woman some of the time like that, but it somehow bothers me less if I'm called sir when I'm not really trying to present feminine.

[Trinity]

Oct 28, 2021 22:59:44 GMT 8 Leena said:

I ended up coming closer to that traditional trans narrative than I once thought I would. I guess how that happened is that when others started actually perceiving me as a woman, I wanted to do everything I could so that more people would perceive me that way, rather than as a guy.

Most of the time that is. I kind of prefer presenting more androgynous when I'm in situations I expect I'll have to show ID or be called my legal name. I still get gendered as a woman some of the time like that, but it somehow bothers me less if I'm called sir when I'm not really trying to present feminine.

I love it when i am presenting male or ambiguously and get maam'd.  Im kind of resigned to the sirring and i know its due to respect mostly so i dont deal with it.  And if nb presenting what are they gunna say? S'aam?  M'ir?

Lol.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Mostly I could give a shit about what people think of me, how they address me is their ignorance, not mine, and really, if I don't know someone well enough to call them a friend, why would I give a shit what they have to say or think?
Living under the radar all my life, it is my life, the less others know about me the better in all but for friends, again why would I care about others opinions who are not?
I blend in to the situations around me and very rarely am the situation, I'm that person people hardly noticed just walked past them, and this is how I like it, I don't want to stand out, that draws idiotic people to want to know more and I am none of their business.
This is social camouflage, I move about and do my things and nobody really notices or cares, I don't get stared at or ignored, to be ignored is having to be noticed to begin with.
It's like out in the rural areas and still not being seen, something I have always been able to do, and sure people can see you, but what do they see... they continue on and don't think twice about me, this is how camo works, you aren't invisible, you are just not thought about much if any.
Suburban camo works the very same way, while others are drawing attention to themselves wearing I'm with stupid t-shirts say, I have a black t-shirt on and of course you can see it even at night, but it doesn't stand out.
Even if you wear a shirt that looks like a brick wall and stand in front of a brick wall people are going to see a person standing in front of a brick wall wearing a shirt that looks like a brick wall, because a brick wall shirt stands out even in front of a brick wall, you know?
Standing in front of a brick wall with a black shirt actually makes you less notice able, its less noticeable than a white or light colored shirt because peoples eyes are naturally drawn to lighter shades, look at a tree and you see the lighter parts, you hardly see the darker parts, in fact once you get used to looking at the darker parts of everything around you, you begin to see twice as much, its natural to see and remember the lighter parts of things, but think about this, try drawing without the darker parts, include them and people think you know how to draw, lol.
This is why when people sketch a face with a drawing it looks like a childs cartoon drawing, that line for a nose where it is the lightest if you look, odd looking eyes because those are not light to begin with, its very hard to imagine things when all you see are the lightest parts of things.
But I generally don't swagger walk and I just mosey along at a normal pace and stay to the right generally on a sidewalk, I don't search faces for recognition that they see me as well, of course they see me, I avoid prolonged eye contact.
A natural gait and it isn't male or female, its more like human in my opinion, I don't try to impress with my body movements because to do anything else draws attention and once that happens, you are stuck in someones head for even a small amount of time and I just don't need that.
I mean I even wear the same basic colors and style of clothes all the time, my experience doesn't change enough to warrant further scrutiny, which people do and usually for less than nice reasons, you can look too good as easy as look pretty bad, and either way it sticks in peoples minds.
I do small talk just like anyone does, but I rarely give up anything that is myself, mostly I just agree with people and don't get into those conversations where people just have to expound on their wordly visions of everything under the sun, they are usually wrong or just full of it.
I'm nice to people, I'm courteous unless someone is just a asshole, and I sometimes make fun of assholes to their face, especially if they are assholing someone for what they think is their right to just belittle them, they rarely do have the right if ever to do that.
So its fair play to just take their way of treating others and treating them the same way, by making people laugh at bozos like that or even smile because they know someone else thinks they are total asses, there is some quality of making the world just a bit better for an instant.
But usually I just let it go because like me everyone else knows that an asshole is as useful to have around as flies, need them to take care of the shot in life but otherwise we just don't need them or their opinions... which are always central to their fly like existence, is that a windshield con=ming at you I think to my self when these insects parading around as humans do their annoying shit, and they do, they like to swarm as well, all land on the same pile of crap in life as if it is a prize and defend it as if someone else wants that pile.
But mostly its all under the radar because who I am is generally none of anyone business, its those nosey people who just love to gossip and gossip is nothing more than guessing bullshit and although it might be fun for them, they make life miserable for everyone else just trying to live their life.

[Trinity]

Here's the thing, and it imo goes for both trans and nb.

What often gets read is whether a person is anxious, and yes, eye contact is a thing, its one that I have problems with.

I generally am friendly, but its in a kind of private way, and I'll talk to people as I am walking, and they haven't got a clue with me. Nor do they seem to care.

But what often gets read is discomfort, or putting on something unnatural, like a walk or something.

I personally have found trans females that are genuine to not have a lot of the tells, they walk the way they walk because that's who they are, nothing put on.

And frankly that's how it works for me on the street because it comes naturally for me, as does anything else really at this point, but the male walk was learned. People always said I had a lot of swing when I walked, that was abused out of me, but I suppose if I let it, it is still there.

But its the energy that I think people read or pick up on. Its how I carry myself, over time, how I carry myself is just sure of myself, its nto a don't mess with me attitude, its more of a why would you even think of it kind of thing, its an aura that's given off.

Used to be an angry one, that changed, now its a peaceful one but one where no matter where I am, people just know not to mess with me.

Interesting. Social camo indeed, wear what you want kind of thing, I do, but its how you carry it, if it looks like you I think its pretty much just, oh that's their look, if it looks like you stuck it onto yourself, well, something isn't going to read the right way.

Out sh'e I look like any other old woman from the 70's, out nb or he I look like any other musician from the 70's, and neither draws any attantion, although as sh'e, doors get held open and I like the way men treat me. Because frankly they have no idea, I know, I'm lucky that I can do that, but its real and thats the difference.

If its real, it doesn't read, in my opinion. If its fake, it reads fast, and if your are insecure, that invites trouble, some male instinct that wants to devour the weak.

They'd be in a lot of trouble with me there. Worse trouble with Ativan....

I learned how to carry myself over time. In the beginning it was harder, it got easier the longer I stopped hiding who I am.

[Ativan Prescribed]

You'd like it up here in the rural everyone holds the door open for everyone, it just doesn't matter, its a common courtesy that if you reach the door about when someone else does you hold it open for them to go through first.
If you did go through and notice someone behind you, you hold the door as well most of the time, but people pretend they didn't notice you, so they just keep going, I get a door held open for me all the time, and in this old people building, everyone holds the door no matter what.
I've had six bags of groceries in my hands and someone sitting at the smokers table near the door notices and they jump up and key the door and then hold it open for me, and thats the ladies who do it more often than the guys will, they just stare and comment if I got something at the store for them.
Well not so much anymore, its such a stupid thing to say to someone loaded down with bags, I usually say yeah I got them something and pretend like I grabbed something from my pocket and flip them off, everyone laughs at them and nobody falls for that anymore.
But its a thing I think thats this part of the country courtesy, you open and hold the door for someone walking behind you, who it is doesn't matter, in fact when people fail to do it you can here the other people mutter asshole to themselves.
Its more than MN nice which really isn't a thing, its more like upper midwest thing, I noticed that traveling around the country, some places do it but most don't for guys, sometimes for women.

[Trinity]

Never been there.

The regional thing is pretty wild, I am very comfortable where I live, its the land of Pulse and the massacre but its also a very decent place, but everywhere is different and I am in one of the better places to be.

NY was downright dangerous.

Traveling up the coast is interesting, some areas more dangerous than others. Most times I am full out she travelling and using the ladies rooms as is my right. I have a carry letter from a shrink saying I am nonbinary trans female and should be allowed to use the restrooms matching my gender identity.

I don't like mens rooms at all. I prefer the ones that are for like handicap or family, privacy there, much easier.

But it really does change depending on where you are, and its a lot of change.

Ohio scared the shit out of me, upstate NY even more so, in the city, I had a lot of confrontations, it was dangerous as hell.

[Ativan Prescribed]

It's weird, but there is a dialect here, its noticeably different unless you listen to the news a lot, because the prefered dialect they want is the speaking MN one.
Tends to talk fast, runs words together but the pronunciation is the closest to perfect english according to experts, which would be a weird thing to be an expert in.
It's like using the beginning phrase hey, you know what, people used to hear me saying that when I traveled around the country and I would get this odd look from them and they would say hayyanowat back at me with a confused look.
Not just that phrase but lots of things, they simply couldn't hear fast enough.
Also the idiosyncrasies of canadian english works and is understood by everyone if they grew up in MN, you say davenport and we hear couch, and a lot of people use the fuckin-ay or just end a sentence with ay,.. you know ay?
Once you get north of the twin cities burbs, which ends about a half hour maybe forty five minutes south of me here, you are in the great white north, while there are people of color, just not very many.
But also because there are so few black and hispanic or latinx, nobody says a thing, you don't hear people talking about them because them isn't in the existence of everyday life, they are more likely to have this odd trophy status by neighbors, like see who we have living next door kinda thing.
Same thing trans and NB and gay and lesbian as well, I mean they are around and its pretty obvious at least to me, but its still like a novel thing for the general population, there is nothing threatening about a few.
So again you don't hear people complaining about LGBTQ, and there are more amish and amish buggies than there are people that are muslim, there is no ethnic dressing, everyone has our great white north fashion sense where a flannel plaid shirt is dressing up if it still looks new(ish).
Especially now that the summer people who take the big trip up here from the cities to get away from city people. They all went back to the cities. With tales of the oddities of the rural people and stuff up here, like big f'ng lake and lots of plaid flannel shirts.

[Leena]

The idea of traveling now gives me anxiety. My ID not matching that would be a problem for certain things if I presented feminine, but that draws the least attention. It doesn't entirely make sense to me, but I get way more negative attention from men when I present masculine.

[Ativan Prescribed]

It's not so much negative as it is just not interested or pretend to be the manly man which is not letting men get to close because then its gay, they would rather do their fantasy about trans women than be outed as gay.
Its only friends that they feel they should be friendly with and there is even a vetting process for friends when it comes to guys, all the macho man manly man stuff is a huge bluff game they almost all play and if they aren't any good at it they don't play the game.
Its all about showing how manly man they are by throwing attention at women and sneering at any man who might be better at it than they are, it's why we have trump supporters and war everywhere, it's the get off my lawn mentality.
It isn't negative, it's the game men play trying to prove they are men and you can see that in the better players of the game, they are nothing and are not who they portray themselves as, but when it's all you got they go for it, it's a bluff, it's the matrix man.
If they look at porn and almost all men do, they get locked into the porn version of trans and have some fantasy thing about a blowjob or butt sex going, they think trans women are just dying to screw straight men and have sex with them because thats why they are trans.
Its also why they are so afraid of trans because they all know they have the fantasy thing going on in their head and yet they all deny it because if they don't, they are scared to death of being seen as gay, and they have that same fantasy about gay men as well.
So they deem gay and trans as something totally bad as a way to show they are manly man men and thats where that bullshit comes from, otherwise if they were honest, they would just play the I'm human game and get on with life.

[Leena]

Oct 30, 2021 2:32:00 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

So they deem gay and trans as something totally bad as a way to show they are manly man men and thats where that bullshit comes from, otherwise if they were honest, they would just play the I'm human game and get on with life.

I mean it's different than how they acted towards me pre-transition. I really did need the facial and body hair to not come off as gay if I'm presenting masculine. I didn't really play that game before, but they mostly ignored me. Which is what they mostly do when I present feminine now. While I may feel comfortable being visibly queer in some situations here, I don't really want to be in unfamiliar surroundings.

[Ativan Prescribed]

This is where blending in comes into play, its going to be different for each person and I've talked about how I go about it, but the bottom line is to not draw attention.
It's like a lot of fashion stuff goes, its mostly to make you stick out even if its subdued, but things like bright colors always catches others eyes and it just goes from there.
When walking look forward and past people coming at you, make as little eye contact as is reasonable, but at the same time don't walk with your head down, keep it up and if you need to see right in front of your feet, look down by moving your eyes that way instead of tilting your head and keeping your eyes staring straight out from your head, use a normal gait when walking and don't assume that a feminine walk makes you look more feminine, check out other women and you begin to notice they walk about like everyone does, that runway walk is just drawing attention, as it is designed to.
Its the little things, move your arms as well, it can be feminine and thas the subtle one that isn't a big eye catcher, but notice that from a good distance its pretty hard to use arm movement as a gender indicator, you can but not as easy as closer up, same thing with walking.
A gait and body movement that is natural to you is usually the best, people notice if movements are forced, its one of those things that can make you look guilty of something and its a tip off for like cops to take a second look, think drunk walk and how easy that is to spot.
Same thing with voice modding, you can only take it just so far and if you are a bigger person a little deeper voice is not that out of place, what is unnatural is that squeaky voice, its an eye catcher in the sense it draws attention.
But not playing the game is the main thing, if others are ignore them, they will move on to the next person coming their way if you don't engage with them, and usually the simple stare and no words is their tip off that they are out of line, regardless.
And thats the thing, if people are rude than staring relentlessly at them and not saying anything and just being basic expressionless but not blank faced makes people more uncomfortable than talking and saying/hearing things, its an unpredictable outcome situation and cause people to squirm, also an unnatural body movement.
Watch people and evaluate who and what they are about in your estimation and you begin to see the little things you normally don't notice and are kinda a waste of time to stop and notice, but its the number of ticks that are combined that give you a picture of that person outside of what they in general are trying to portray, notice the ticks that are unnatural and just practice not doing those kinds of things, save all that for comfortable surroundings and people you can trust or somewhat trust, in unfamiliar surroundings, you want to blend into tha ambiance.
I think of it as dissipating into the ambiance, when you do people see what they are looking at and most everything else doesn't register at a conscious level, its like looking through a slight fog.
It isn't so much learning to do new things as it is to avoid in certain situations some things.