Do you identify as trans or nb or both or neither?

[Trinity]

Without getting into labels, which the longtimers in here are totally not into because we feel them to be limiting, box building, do you identify as trans or nb or both or neither?

I identify as nonbinary trans, I am full transition hormonally, but socially live as any and all genders, stealth or out.

It is my truth.

as to the body, I am very trans, even to the point of that being binary.

What about you?

[Ativan Prescribed]

I truly think gender is nothing more than a social construct and because of that, everyone has a differing opinion of what gender is, so basically it is an illusion.
Everyone is fully capable of having and using all aspects of self that people have, some choose to use these and some use them, but they are not exclusive to either sex.
Sex is a biological function and even then there are those who are not either sex or both sex, or intersex as they call it, but they still share the very same aspects as all people do.
Gender is a learned thing and for most people they learn it in a very very basic way and take it to heart that it is as they learned it or experienced it, but it's a construct regardless.
I mean think about it, societal rules that some get to wear these clothes and others can't, some have to have this length hair and others can't, some have to walk and talk like this and others have to walk and talk like that...
Think about it like this, what if blue did mean boy and pink meant girl and its only that sense of it in the last century, otherwise it was the other way around as a way to identify babies, but what if society made up some rule that these people have to wear orange everything and those people have to wear purple everything and always always and then made it a law, break the law and you go to prison and have to wear striped everything or some other dumb idea based on prejudices of the ruling class.
How about every third step these people have to skip once and those people have to spin around once, I could go on and on with this framework, but thats the insanity we all live with right now, nobody made it a rule and yet people consider it to be a rule, but it just isn't, its preferential stereotyping by some people who seem to think they are the rule makers, but no single group dictates the rules of society, if it did we would have political chaos... which we do because some seem to think they are the chosen rule makers for everyone else.
Don't like big govt in your face? then don't be in anyone else's face. Grown up and see the world as a remarkable thing that is always changing and evolving and try to keep up with it, if you fall behind, don't expect everyone else to stay behind just because, it isn't hard to just be a decent human being, there is no need to defend where you are in life and there is no need to demand others be in that same place, it really is live and let live, the key thing here is to let live.

[koiandras]

Neither. I'm AFAB but have never really felt like a woman beyond being familiar with having a female body. Internally, there's a substantial agender component to my identity, so in many ways, being physically/socially considered female didn't clash with anything as such or give me dysphoria. I simply felt like "female" or "woman" wasn't *all* I was. I feel more comfortable with genderqueer, rather than non-binary.

[kalima]

Hey all! Been gone for a while, but I think of y'all a lot. Grateful for what I've learned here.

I have been telling people I am pangender lately. That is the label that literally gives me permission to express any way I feel. It is the out-of-the-box box. I do also think of myself as trans non-binary, just because I don't fit into the binary. But it seems like in popular culture non-binary has become another gender rather than just saying what we're not. So I use pangender more these days.

[Leena]

I feel like nonbinary now has certain stereotypes much like trans has had for much longer. A lot of them don't fit me, and I've been pursuing transition goals that are pretty binary so I definitely consider myself trans.

I have a different way of thinking about gender than most binary trans women though. Perhaps once I did see outside the binary, I didn't want to box myself in to the other binary, though I can understand a lot of the reasons why they do. Safety and discrimination are big reasons, and it's part of why I generally want to just blend in most of the time.

[Ativan Prescribed]

It's mostly in articles that they have a difficult time trying to define NB, as if it needs a definition, it doesn't, it simply isn't a binary thing and it isn't really a gender at all or even a lack of one, its just not the standard binary gender cis thing.
This has always been the problem with media of all sorts when talking about it, they need parameters of what it means and since it really doesn't mean anything other than the people who are NB are just using it as a placeholder to separate them from cis binary.
but of course everyone else needs this definition that doesn't exist, so a lot of the time they stumble around with trying to make a definition and it ends badly because no matter what they say, it is not going to be an overall definition.
They always try to combine elements of the binary genders to make a new one, as if it is like a car that is half chevy and half ford, just to be able to talk about it.
This is really apparent in the fashion sense of NB, there is no NB look, there isn't a NB aisle at the clothing store and everything is just worn by NB people as they see fit, it isn't like its a trend or something and yet they treat it as if it is.
If there really was a look, then you can bet that cis would scoop it up in a heartbeat like they did during the androgynous era of that being a fashion, and taking it on just ruins it for people trying not to look so damn cis binary all the time, which is pretty boring if you ask me.
Same as like is that a NB haircut? No such a thing, is that a NB car you are driving,lol...
They desperately want to be able to say this is like a look or something so they know, but really it isn't anyone's business because it really makes zero difference if you are or not, they want to be able to yell some stupid thing at you as you walk away is the general cis binary thing, you know what I mean.
It's like the horror of using they/them pronouns, og my god you can't do that, its its its, stumble all over themselves as if you created a tear in the space time continuum, laws of nature and language and just in general stupid shit because cis binary tends to get bent out of shape so easily.
I honestly can see why some people will say they are NB when they really have little idea if they are or just having a moment, I wouldn't want to be known as a hard core cis binary and people are starting to realize that having that gender stick up their ass is a worthless thing to hang on to.
I mean who really wants to be known in life as a total jerk and asshole who has limited capability in making reasonable decisions?
NB is not a gender no matter how hard people try to make it one, it is simply not being a part of the cis binary, it is whatever gender you want it to be and many NB go by one or the other cis binary gender because its an easy way to float through life without incurring the wrath of those people with a gender stick up their ass.

[Trinity]

I seldom identify myself as nonbinary. I might identify myself as androgyne and often do, or as a "blend" and I do that even more, but most likely I just say I am trans and make sure the medical insurance says I am female or they won't pay you.

Its like the mamogram, you have to pay 700 for the mammo, no, my insurance lists me as female and my body is female and screw my drivers license because its not correct. And then the copay drops to nothing because female with boobs not male with gynomastia.

But try to get hormone shots on insurance....

Mine is through a grant, thank God, in Orlando.

But I do identify as trans, and oh by the way I am nonbinary. Just the way it feels to me.

There was a time when folk insisted that if you were trans you were binary. Bullshit....

[Ativan Prescribed]

Oct 27, 2021 11:38:09 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

I truly think gender is nothing more than a social construct and because of that, everyone has a differing opinion of what gender is, so basically it is an illusion.
Everyone is fully capable of having and using all aspects of self that people have, some choose to use these and some use them, but they are not exclusive to either sex.
Sex is a biological function and even then there are those who are not either sex or both sex, or intersex as they call it, but they still share the very same aspects as all people do.
Gender is a learned thing and for most people they learn it in a very very basic way and take it to heart that it is as they learned it or experienced it, but it's a construct regardless.
I mean think about it, societal rules that some get to wear these clothes and others can't, some have to have this length hair and others can't, some have to walk and talk like this and others have to walk and talk like that...
Think about it like this, what if blue did mean boy and pink meant girl and its only that sense of it in the last century, otherwise it was the other way around as a way to identify babies, but what if society made up some rule that these people have to wear orange everything and those people have to wear purple everything and always always and then made it a law, break the law and you go to prison and have to wear striped everything or some other dumb idea based on prejudices of the ruling class.
How about every third step these people have to skip once and those people have to spin around once, I could go on and on with this framework, but thats the insanity we all live with right now, nobody made it a rule and yet people consider it to be a rule, but it just isn't, its preferential stereotyping by some people who seem to think they are the rule makers, but no single group dictates the rules of society, if it did we would have political chaos... which we do because some seem to think they are the chosen rule makers for everyone else.
Don't like big govt in your face? then don't be in anyone else's face. Grown up and see the world as a remarkable thing that is always changing and evolving and try to keep up with it, if you fall behind, don't expect everyone else to stay behind just because, it isn't hard to just be a decent human being, there is no need to defend where you are in life and there is no need to demand others be in that same place, it really is live and let live, the key thing here is to let live.

[Trinity]

Nov 12, 2021 9:05:11 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

Oct 27, 2021 11:38:09 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

I truly think gender is nothing more than a social construct and because of that, everyone has a differing opinion of what gender is, so basically it is an illusion.
Everyone is fully capable of having and using all aspects of self that people have, some choose to use these and some use them, but they are not exclusive to either sex.
Sex is a biological function and even then there are those who are not either sex or both sex, or intersex as they call it, but they still share the very same aspects as all people do.
Gender is a learned thing and for most people they learn it in a very very basic way and take it to heart that it is as they learned it or experienced it, but it's a construct regardless.
I mean think about it, societal rules that some get to wear these clothes and others can't, some have to have this length hair and others can't, some have to walk and talk like this and others have to walk and talk like that...
Think about it like this, what if blue did mean boy and pink meant girl and its only that sense of it in the last century, otherwise it was the other way around as a way to identify babies, but what if society made up some rule that these people have to wear orange everything and those people have to wear purple everything and always always and then made it a law, break the law and you go to prison and have to wear striped everything or some other dumb idea based on prejudices of the ruling class.
How about every third step these people have to skip once and those people have to spin around once, I could go on and on with this framework, but thats the insanity we all live with right now, nobody made it a rule and yet people consider it to be a rule, but it just isn't, its preferential stereotyping by some people who seem to think they are the rule makers, but no single group dictates the rules of society, if it did we would have political chaos... which we do because some seem to think they are the chosen rule makers for everyone else.
Don't like big govt in your face? then don't be in anyone else's face. Grown up and see the world as a remarkable thing that is always changing and evolving and try to keep up with it, if you fall behind, don't expect everyone else to stay behind just because, it isn't hard to just be a decent human being, there is no need to defend where you are in life and there is no need to demand others be in that same place, it really is live and let live, the key thing here is to let live.

Is that a delay effect or reverb?

Matrix

[Leena]

While there isn't a single nonbinary look, there are some that are more common, and that unfortunately is what a lot of people think nonbinary is.

It is hard to talk about nonbinary though, and I don't know that there is a good SHORT way to explain it to cis people, or even binary trans people. I haven't found one yet anyway. I can really only speak on my experiences and those are different than those of a lot of nonbinary people, and similar to those of binary trans women in most ways.

I don't know that I even want some of the social things they want. I still don't know that I really want to stealth if that is ever possible for me. When safety and discrimination isn't a concern, I kind of prefer that people don't think I'm cis.

[Trinity]

Nov 12, 2021 9:14:03 GMT 8 Leena said:

While there isn't a single nonbinary look, there are some that are more common, and that unfortunately is what a lot of people think nonbinary is.

It is hard to talk about nonbinary though, and I don't know that there is a good SHORT way to explain it to cis people, or even binary trans people. I haven't found one yet anyway. I can really only speak on my experiences and those are different than those of a lot of nonbinary people, and similar to those of binary trans women in most ways.

I don't know that I even want some of the social things they want. I still don't know that I really want to stealth if that is ever possible for me. When safety and discrimination isn't a concern, I kind of prefer that people don't think I'm cis.

I just prefer dropping all the bullshit and being myself when I am out, and it seems to work ok.

Not saying its bullshit, just saying my personal bullshit, no acting, just being.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Social contracts are there so that you are being what others expect you to be, and since most people believe they are some sort of reality, they live in that matrix and have zero idea that they are characters in it and nothing more.
It takes an extreme event for most people to have the realization that they are an entity that is independent of society, and that everyone is, but most people will go through life happily thinking it is just as the do, and never venture past that point.
Things like the realization that gender is this fucked up thing for them, it is an event for most people, or the knowledge that they have never really believed it to begin with, the result is the same, you see the matrix for what it is.
You are nonconformist and for most people that is a bad thing, but for those of us who think it is a good thing, we walk around inside the matrix or social constructs and boob and weave our way through life, we see what others fail to see.

[kalima]

I tried to fit in as male for decades. I was so afraid that people would think I was too feminine that I would overcompensate. It wasn't until I woke up from that and experienced the freedom and joy of not having to constantly prove my masculinity that I started to drop my cis-gender identity. The reason it was always such a struggle to come across as male was because, well, I'M NOT MALE! Or at the very least not limited to that. It is so freeing to not have to try to fit in to any gender boxes.

[koiandras]

I agree that NB is treated like it's a gender identity in itself, rather than simply being an umbrella for identities that aren't male/female.

This is one of the reasons I don't like the term NB for myself. I don't perceive myself as sitting outside of the binary or rejecting the binary in some way. I simply feel I have a queer relationship with the binary (hence genderqueer) and while I could also be considered gender non-conforming, I don't really feel that covers it. There are plenty of tomboyish women in terms of their gender expression and I conform to that. A masculine female gender expression happens to closely align with my being ambigender.

I would use the word "genderqueer" because to me, that's a much more accurate term for how I relate to the concept of gender in general terms.

[Leena]

I don't really reject the binary, it rejects me. I tried, but I couldn't be the man everyone wanted me to be. I don't know that I'll ever really be treated the same as a cis woman either. How I am definitely is not, most of the time anyway.