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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jan 17, 2021 10:05:17 GMT 8
I've written a book and a story thats somewhere on here in my blog space, and I use the terms she and he when I talk about things. But the reality is, I don't relate certain emotions as she or he, the more intense they are, the more it has a feeling of she, the more analytical things are the more I tend to think in terms of he. The idea that certain emotions and feelings are feminine or masculine just doesn't seem right for most of the time. And on top ot it, there isn't much of a divide between what seems like a masculine state and feminine one, it's almost always a fine line that seems to move the second I think about it. It's like aggressive is hardly masculine to me, and most of the time it is actually very feminine, doing things that are like fighting aggressive is very feminine, it's like a fine art more than blind rage. And rage... that is directly associated with feminine for some reason, as in total bitch mode kinda thing, pissed off is the same but a lesser level, mad about something is masculine for the simple reason its much more analytical. Mad has its reasons and can be expressed in terms that others can identify with, pissed off sorta sidetracks that with heightened emotion, rage goes from screaming at someone to aggressive moves on them to just blind rage that is hard to even remember what just happened... But the flip side of all that is equally true of heightened emotional stages of caring and love, there is always an analytical part to it that is the mechanics and the rest is just emotional reaction. I in general feel like the body movements I make most of the time are feminine and yet very few people have ever commented on it that way, but it's not masculine either, pretty neutral I suppose. I used to lift weights at times to stay fit and that is like an art form to me and anytime anything feels like its an art form of whatever type, that feels feminine even if I don't think what I'm doing is feminine at the same time. Working on projects that is anywhere from guitar building to house construction to heavy construction to things like welding or soldering or just painting a damn wall with some color thats acceptable with a roller and some brush work is mechanical and yet feels feminine. I guess I see a lot of things that way, there is an art to doing most everything, even a chainsaw is that way, hammering nails is for sure, just in general physical things can always be seen that way, so most of my world is feminine in nature. It doesn't matter to me how others see it when I am doing something, walking is walking, reaching for a glass of water is reaching for a glass, the way I speak is pretty much just a this is what it is sort of thing, take it anyway you want. To me, the world is basically feminine save for a few things, and its debatable as to the few things that I guess I would consider masculine, grunting a noise vs saying good morning maybe? I think it would be a lot of work to try and do things as masculine as possible and it is for so many things, and yet people don't much notice anyways, you have to really be putting on the man act to come off as pure masculine and seriously, most men can't pull it off all that well. I see that feminine side of most things in most things they are doing or even just talking about, after all, it isn't like they have a different language, words are words and the better use of them that you have, the better sounding you are, regardless. There just isn't anything that men can do that women can't, with the exception of wacking their dicks, but then men can't get off like women can either, so thats a wash, but take any profession and if looked at objectively, women tend to do better overall. But dividing things up as masculine and feminine just doesn't work for most things and when it does there are so many exceptions to it that you might as well quit where you are, because nothing is exclusive. This is why the gender matrix, the gender construct isn't real, where is it written and where is the proof, to me there just isn't either, it's a given and people try to live with that given and for most everything if not everything, it stunts people from doing their very best in life.
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Non-Binary
Sh'e, H'er, they them, she, he, whatever....
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Post by Trinity on Jan 17, 2021 11:31:40 GMT 8
For me, and it took a long time to get there, its not he and she, its trans, its sh'e. You could easily use they as well, conveys the same idea but in a different way, there is a physical dominant side to me that is very trans, and even fully out in the matrix as an androgyne male presenting and reading, in my mind I am still clearly sh'e, its just the covering is conforming to a matrix he, yet, not he, long nails, clear polished, the fake diamond ring with the real wedding band, the trans ring that is so standing out on my right long nailed hand that has blue pink white pink blue stones in it. Eyebrows and all that, boobs but in the big shirts, doesn't read.
Very easy and comfortable presentation, not one person has ever made a comment about it here in Florida.
But my movement is fluid and my dance is unique and very fluid, you can see it in my show, it's all right there.
For the longest time it was he and she, then the dance, then the symphony. Now its all so integrated into me, a trans me that is clearly nonbinary, that has all these characteristics that the matrix has labels for, but the actual characteristics for me is simply what trans looks like for me.
I look like trans, so does Kate Bornstein but she is just as nonbinary as i am and had all the operations and work done, it doesn't change who she is, we know we are different. And that is the difference for nonbinary trans, I think, binary trans females insist they are females and that is their truth, and I have met many of them and frankly, I'd agree with that, they really are female and its right to the core. Some, maybe I don't agree but that's not for me to judge, they are who they are.
And they drop into stealth and live their lives totally female and are happy about it. But that is not my personal truth.
So to build on the thread, who is to say its masculine this or feminine that, in my personal case, when its all sh'e and how that feels and is true for me?
And why would that be true of anyone else, when it is just my own experience of being trans and freed from the matrix for the most part, yet, not totally? For I am not sure any of us are totally freed from the matrix, I think it has some effect at some levels, the social conditioning is just too strong.
I have always maintained that I am binary trans female on a physical level, but even that is an over simplifiecation, because at some level, there are things I can handle that other trans females cannot, such as facial hair, I really don't want to go through the electrolysis nightmare, and it doesn't bother me so much that its there. Otherwise I'd shave more, but I get lazy, and then what you see at night or even during the day is this transitioned person who has a shadow or more than one, or is running around with mens jeans on and their shirt off and my most comfortable bra, because I rarely go without a bra unless I am in my nightgowns. Its not comfortable, I need the support or they get sore.
So yeah, its interesting to look at it, sides and assignment of traits, when as trans folk, nonbinary folk, its kind of not true, for me, because the traits are just me and are the traits for my particualar symphony of nonbinary trans sh'e.
And with the merging and integration and understanding that this is just the way my body is and this is what I need to see in the mirror and these are the parts I need because sex for me is all female, it brings my dysphoria levels way down.
But in the beginning, and some here will remember this, dysphoria was mindbreaking and my gender was fighting itself and I called that gendersplit and that really sucked.
What a journey we have had.
And that book Ativan wrote is a very good book.
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Post by Iona on Jan 17, 2021 11:46:05 GMT 8
It is tricky to talk about gender without resorting to concepts of masculine and feminine. To me those terms are only useful as a kind of shorthand - what's implicit is not that things are in any way intrinsically masculine or feminine, but it is about things that the broader society sees as masculine or feminine.
Which in a way makes it meaningless.
I used to lift weights at home a bit, with the aim of living up to 'masculinity', but I found it more comfortable, enjoyable and effective when wearing 'feminine' clothes.
For so long, things I felt were supposed to be 'masculine', I felt out of my depth in (diy, mechanics, whatever), and nowadays I'm far more comfortable with them in the acceptance of myself as I am. Whatever else I am, I'm not very 'masculine', as far as the world outside would be concerned.
But in actuality, the more I embrace my nonbinaryness the less meaning these terms ultimately have.
Is any of this relevant? I don't know.
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Post by Iona on Jan 17, 2021 11:53:08 GMT 8
I may have once seen masculine and feminine sides in me, but I think I've begun to see it more holistically, and hopefully a little more outside the matrix. It's still hard to shake the ways we've been conditioned.
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Post by Leena on Jan 18, 2021 4:33:01 GMT 8
I don't quite see it as sides anymore, although I sometimes still express it like that. It's just for a very long time I was convinced my life would be better if I stayed closeted, and I sometimes still feel that way because it was. I actually felt more free when I was closeted, though I might feel the most free if I were able to stealth. Being visibly trans really limits where I can go and what I can do. If transphobia didn't exist I'd probably feel differently, but it does exist.
But yeah, I don't like the idea that women feel and act a certain way and men feel and act a different way. I especially don't like the idea that trans women have to limit themselves to being a stereotypical woman as was more the case when I was younger, when my cis women friends at the time had the many of the same interests as me. Kind of pushed me further into the closet right as I was stepping out.
Nonbinary people here and elsewhere helped me out of it, and I am grateful for that. I don't know that I do want to come out to people as nonbinary though, I don't like trying to explain it to cis people and life is much easier if they just assume I am one of the binary genders.
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Post by Trinity on Jan 18, 2021 8:19:10 GMT 8
I don't even try explaining it. I feel like I shouldn't have to, feels like being on defense instead of on offense or just watching the show.
If I do get pushed, I have the easy way out, DES trans, and I use that explanation. Its not for everyone, but its true for me.
But most of the time, I just say I am trans. I figure the nonbinary part is most likely fairly obvious anyway.
It's not like I differentiate much between nonbinary and trans. I'm both anyways. Odd though that I don't like the label of "transgender" although I'll take it when its being talked about in news or government. Just trans works for me.
Don't sell yourself short, you can be stealth if you like, from what I have seen.
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Post by Leena on Jan 19, 2021 5:58:28 GMT 8
No matter what terms I use to describe myself there's going to be some that want to say I'm not that.
I don't think I'll ever be 100% passing. It isn't really a yes/no thing anyway, though most people talk like it is. I pass some of the time to some people, and don't some of the time to some people. Beyond that, I don't think stealth is as easy to do now as it once was. I can't live my life in hopes that I will. I've wasted too much of it as it is.
It's really a matter of how I want to live the rest of it. Or even the next chunk of it. Whatever loose plan I had for my social transition went out the window last year.
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Post by Trinity on Jan 19, 2021 6:56:31 GMT 8
Yeah the planning part of all this doesn't seem to be all that predictable in general does it
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jan 19, 2021 9:31:29 GMT 8
Regardless, its still better than being a bigot. I've really gotten to the point in life where I really don't care what people think of me, and there is a lot of freedom in that. The realization that no matter who you are and what you do is never going to make everyone happy, that there is always going to be someone who disagrees or doesn't me is really the realization that that is life for everyone. It doesn't matter who you are, you can never please everyone and some people you just can't please no matter what, everyone has the downsides to their lives. But by knowing yourself and not caring about those who don't like you for whatever reason, by always striving to be the better person, you win, because so many people are losers and suckups and they have to live the lives that they think others will accept. It doesn't matter, those people who think you should be this or that, there is always going to be those people, and if you cater to their bullshit, then life is going to be just that. Better to be yourself than someone else.
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kalima
New Member
Posts: 45
Gender: Non-binary / pangender
Presentation: Androgynous
Presentation: Androgynous
Pronouns: They/Their/Them
Pronouns: Depends on context
Orientation: Pansexual
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Post by kalima on Feb 15, 2021 12:27:34 GMT 8
Reactivating this thread. I get confused when I consider my masculine side and my feminine side. I have a male side and a female side. My male side has feminine and masculine qualities and my female side has masculine and feminine qualities, just like a cisgendered female could have a strong masculine side and a cisgendered male could have a strong feminine side. Female and male are much more complex and nuanced than feminine and masculine and work better for me when considering my inner experience.
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Post by Trinity on Feb 15, 2021 12:38:30 GMT 8
Reactivating this thread. I get confused when I consider my masculine side and my feminine side. I have a male side and a female side. My male side has feminine and masculine qualities and my female side has masculine and feminine qualities, just like a cisgendered female could have a strong masculine side and a cisgendered male could have a strong feminine side. Female and male are much more complex and nuanced than feminine and masculine and work better for me when considering my inner experience. At the risk of taking this out of context because I didn't read through it again...
Theres a place where I realized, for me, that it wasn't about masculine and feminine any more. It was about whoever it is that I am, since the gender I have is not of the binary, how can I have a masculine or feminine side? What I have is me. Its like, well, theres maybe male and female, and then theres me, and I'm nonbiinary trans, and its not going to fit these things. I came to realize that i am my own thing, my gender is nonbinary trans sh'e, there was a time when I swung back and forth on he she things, but then it all integrated together, became me.
That was freeing to say the least, my gender used to fight when I percieved it as part male and part female, but I never knew it was all simultaneous. I don't think of it as part this or part that, I think of it as, Trinity has this and that and feels this and that and the deep emotions and soft things and body transition and all of that, but sh'e is just Trinity.
But it took years in transition to get here.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Feb 15, 2021 12:44:25 GMT 8
Once you stop considering things as masculine or feminine they become qualities rather than gendered things. Gendering things is a binary way of thinking and locks into it harder and further than it actually is. Leave the masculine and feminine in the box and live outside of it. The realization that this and that are not masculine or feminine opens up life as it is outside the matrix, the gender construct. Are those socks masculine or are they feminine, or are they just f'ing socks? Is that a masculine trait or feminine trait, or are they just f'ing human traits? Step past the idea that things have actual sides to them as some gendered thing, realize that it is not a real thing to think of things as gendered, they are what they are. Consider that people will refer to ships as a she, is this a reality based assumption or is it the tendency to gender some thing that obviously has no gender, even if they painted that ship pink, it is just a ship, a big boat. And consider that it is men more often than women who place a gender on stuff, to the point of naming their rifle Betty, giving their truck a gendered name, see it for what it is, very very few things in life are gender based, living things can have a sex, even both sex's, but would you gender a tree? I do things that are me, not masculine or feminine, but me.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Feb 15, 2021 12:54:24 GMT 8
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nyx
Full Member
Posts: 175
Gender: FTM Non-Binary
Pronouns: He/His/Him
Orientation: Queer
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Post by nyx on Feb 15, 2021 14:53:27 GMT 8
Hey friends, I'm a bit quiet sometimes, but still reading your posts. Just sometimes don't feel like posting, there is much in my head and sometimes it is too much to handle. So here are some of my thoughts to this thread:
I recently bought a book about gender stuff (It's german and the title is 'Gender-Kram' which literally means 'gender stuff'). It is a non-fiction comic that explains a lot about gender, how it is a social thing and presents a lot of different gender labels and people who identify as these. Why I tell you about the book, it's because I read in it a thought that was really important, I think (this is my translation because I think the book hasn't been translated in english):
'All you have to do to be a man / a woman: identify as man / woman. Done. It doesn't matter which biological treats you were born with, or if others believe you or perceive you as this - if you identify with a gender, then this is your gender identity and therefore real and true and legitimate.'
It sounds simple, but if you think about it: there are no feminine or masculine characteristics needed to be a woman, man, whatever. But then, I wonder, are there really such things as feminine or masculine? When you try to define them, you can either put up some stereotypes or your very personal associations but in the end, it's all ascriptions. If a ship doesn't have a gender, why should a pink dress have a gender? Couldn't I be wearing a pink dress and say, this feels totally masculine to me? No offense intended if you think otherwise, but to me it doesn't make sense to divide things in terms of feminine and masculine and simultaneously try to overcome the gender matrix. Of course we can reinterpret the terms, say 'femine means to me (insert despcription) and masculine means to me (insert description).' But then, what do we need the terms for, it's like making up some new vocabulary for things we can describe with better words already.
But maybe this is just my perception of things. I tend to be a bit analytical. The more I think about it, I can't find anything inside myself that is definitely feminine or definetely masculine. There are aspects of my personality that others would describe as one or the other, but to me it's just giving things names...
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Post by Droomvlucht on Feb 15, 2021 23:43:30 GMT 8
Theres a place where I realized, for me, that it wasn't about masculine and feminine any more. It was about whoever it is that I am, since the gender I have is not of the binary, how can I have a masculine or feminine side?
Same for me. So I don't get this nyx, could you explain it further? 'All you have to do to be a man / a woman: identify as man / woman. Done. It doesn't matter which biological treats you were born with, or if others believe you or perceive you as this - if you identify with a gender, then this is your gender identity and therefore real and true and legitimate.' I mean, I understand what they're saying and I understand what you say, but I don't really identify as either, is that even a possiblity in your book?
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