The Law, The Lord, and The medical facts of transgender

[Trinity]

Once again the word abomination was raised, so I did a bit of a more in depth study on it, since I am driving deeper into my Christianity now and need to do that.


My first reaction, when reading Deuteronomy, was to become my typical depressed and slightly suicidal self.   Basically its the verses that state men must not lie with men and men must not wear womens clothes, they are an abomination to the Lord.


But when I consider who we are as trangender people, and some of the new findings of the MRI's of trans patients, the medical proof is stating (as some of us know) that gender is not what is between your legs but is a function of the hardwired brain.

They found that trans people and nonbinary peoples brains are structurally the same as their perceived genders.

As a desperately devout Christian that information is vital to me.  I do not in any way pass judgement or even want to have an opinion on the whole gay thing, that is between a person and their God, and is none of my business except the command to love them unconditionally.   And I am bisexual anyway.

But as a DES trans nonbinary androgyne, it is really critical for me to understand that there is a physical difference between me and men, and even me and women.

It takes any possible condemnation away, even if you are trying to apply old testament law to this.

The new testament, except for the Romans road which describes the slide into complete lasciviousness, which makes sense to me actually, does not address our situation.  Cult prostitutes are addressed, the worship of sex is addressed, and the mistranslation of effeminacy in the King James is addressed (it actually means something like given over to sensual lust of the flesh, living for that).   And above all, all of sin and error is addressed including willful choice to sin and the need to submit to the will of God and to do it.

The position of the church against being transgender I can only ascribe to being in error as a result of not trying to understand that trans is a medical condition, and condemning us as a result of a mis application of scripture.

The frightening thing is the consequences of getting this wrong.  Spiritually I know where I stand, and I have the DES smoking gun that as far as I know clearly causes nonbinary trans in fetal development by altering the brain and the wiring and the endocrine receptors and skeletal development, and causes depression, that much I know DES does.   And I know God does not make mistakes and I very much doubt that He created me to be "an object of His wrath" based on the way He knit me together in the womb.  I just cannot subscribe to a loving God doing that, and my experiences with Christ and the Holy Spirit fly in the face of being condemned.

I fear leading anyone down the wrong path on their gender, it is such a deeply personal thing.  And I greive that so many of us are cast out of the church and the result of the bigotry and the error of this theology result in the death of souls, it is the one thing that would grieve the Lord the most, pharaseeism,   the thing that made Him the most angry of all.  

Its not to condemn the church that I write this.  I write it to release my greif and my fears and my sadness, I only want to please my God and save my soul, and not to imperil anyone elses.

By their fruit you will know them, said Jesus.  I look to the fruit as well, the fruit for us is a lot of pain, but the fruit of living a lie is worse, and that also is stated many, many times as an abomination to the Lord, lying and deception.

Only by taking the entirety of scripture can we find the truth, and by prayer to find God and what He feels.

I am fearful writing this, I don't want anyone to hurt themselves by what they say, and I am nor forcing my beliefs onto others.  I am just saying that as I follow Him with all of my heart mind and soul, the only conclusion I can have is that I may have started in the womb as male, but by the time I got out I became something else, and therefor I stand outside of the Levitical law, and the law of Jesus inside my heart then is the only paramount thing for me to obey.

Thank you for letting me vent my heart about this.   I fear the political church  more than anything.  But it was that very spirit in the church of that time that nailed Jesus to the cross, and He said to forgive them because they did not know what they were doing.   

[Iona]

There's so much to unpick when it comes to religion and morality, not just the decades we've been alive, but millenia of thought and interpretation. Which is to say that what I have to say here is very much limited to my own thoughts and feelings and should be ignored if not helpful...

I came out to some of my community by way of a kind of service (the kind we did, not much like any traditional service), kind of a meditative liturgy. And I looked quite intently at the concept of abominations. As that was what I felt like growing up within the church, hiding who I was.

The first thing is that in the Hebrew there was more than one word that came to be translated as "abomination" and they didnt necessarily hold the same implication of moral exceptionalism.

You can see the inconsistency (in translation) when you look at what was translated as abominations. Some I found:

Lying lips and a false balance; winged insects and swarming things; the devious and perverse at heart; incense; the vulture and the buzzard; those proud in heart; fish without scales; the justifier of the wicked and the condemner of the righteous; haughty eyes; hands that shed
innocent blood...

Pretty varied stuff. Also, that verse in deuteronomy 22 is: A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your
God detests anyone who does this.

We tend to ignore the first half of that, so socially accepted it is.

I find it hard to understand paul a lot of the time, but what makes it unclear as to his intention I believe, was that the context of talking about homosexuality (aside from questions of translations) was in the contrast of living by the law/being justified by faith. The idea that if you live by the law, you must keep all the laws - including laws prohibiting homosexuality. He seems to be implying that living in faith in Jesus, "all things are lawful but not all things are beneficial" (and perhaps we can now discuss what is beneficial - I'd argue homosexual relationships most definitely are).

Anyway, ultimately that looks either side of Jesus. He said nothing about sexuality or gender identity. such as my faith is nowadays, I hold onto what seems to me to be central to Jesus' message, when it comes to how I (try to) approach myself and others: love your neighbour as yourself.

[Iona]

I hope it was ok to add those thoughts.

Especially in the current climate it must be so hard to be fully in the church, being trans. I confess I have rejected too much of the dogma to really feel a part of it anymore. But I just cant and wont let go of Jesus.

[Trinity]

Apr 18, 2020 3:04:18 GMT 8 Iona said:

I hope it was ok to add those thoughts.

Especially in the current climate it must be so hard to be fully in the church, being trans. I confess I have rejected too much of the dogma to really feel a part of it anymore. But I just cant and wont let go of Jesus.

Its more than ok.

I'm not sure how many of us on the board are Christian, its a very personal thing.   And every one of us has been wounded by doctrines that I don't think reflect the love of Jesus.

An odd thing happened after I wrote this post.  A friend who had my email address through another kind of support group that is Cis, contacted me out of nowhere, and basically said that I was probably closer to heaven than most of the Cis, because I am what I am.   It was very encouraging and I needed it.

Don't let anyone, anywhere, drive you away from the Christ.  We seek to please Him and the Holy Spirit inside of us, not man, for if we please man rather than God that is a form of idolatry, and is very wrong.   It puts them above God.   So those who are wrong about the doctrines in their error, ultimately, its between you and our Creator.  IMO.

But don't let anyone steal your birthright.   That would be the greatest evil of all, and sadly, many have stepped into that trap, and it must grieve the Holy Spirit intensely that His people are driven away from the church and worst from God Himself because of others error.

I am not fully in the church and cannot be, but I do go and hide in plain sight, I don't know how long I can keep doing that, but my faith, my church in my home, that remains strong and I seek Him every morning.  I am well aware of both God and the devil, and that LGBT is being used as a pawn by the enemy, a pivot point, and they have involved trans in this now as well.

Many hearts will be revealed, and in this time now, that separation is taking place, hearts sifted, many turn to the risen One, others harden their hearts and blame us, not realizing it is their own hate and way of life that has brought down this plague and the ones to come.  

Its a tipping point, and people see only this side of life, its what is going to happen on the other side that will be the final outcome of the battle, not here.

Its not my purpose to debate politics or the political church, that just spreads more poison, we already know what the conditions are for us.  The real key is how do we keep our faith when we are trans/nonbinary, born that way, in the face of the hostility around us?   But for the true Christians, that has always been a problem, and the answer is that Greater is He that is in us, than he that is in the world.....God inside us, can you imagine, and yet, that is what we are promised, and can live.  And that has nothing to do with gender at all.

IMO

[Trinity]

BTW I loved your initial post.

I looked at that, I was dealing with one specific Hebrew word, which is the one that reflects how God feels about it. And more than anything else that came down to a pattern of the deadly sins, pride, arrogance, lying, cheating, the incense was when it was offered in an impure way as in living like hell and then coming to make sacrifice and basically is making God a mockery because you don't follow His ways. Prayers themselves are said to be incense in the throneroom of grace, so prayers by people who don't give a crap about who God really is are an affront to Him, He isn't a Genie God, He is an untamed and extremely powerful Spirit that loves us, especially those of us who have been walked all over, and if anything, trans people trying to live pure would be oh so close to His heart.

[Trinity]

I fall far short with unconditional love, yes I have it, but of late it has been trampled, and that is not good. The yeast of the Pharisee, the poison of our time, poisoning the soul, it has to be avoided at all cost and our media is filled with it. I feel poisoned, and I want my healing.

[Iona]

Me too, I fail miserably at loving - myself as well as others.

Just one other thing your posts reminded me of - something else from Paul, in Galatians: There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

[Trinity]

Apr 18, 2020 5:44:27 GMT 8 Iona said:

Me too, I fail miserably at loving - myself as well as others.

Just one other thing your posts reminded me of - something else from Paul, in Galatians: There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Love is everything, loving yourself is the beginning, and what you don't love, you can ask for Him to remove.

As to gender self loathing, if you have that, stick around.... it gets way better.

[Iona]

Apr 18, 2020 7:42:07 GMT 8 Trinity said:

Apr 18, 2020 5:44:27 GMT 8 Iona said:

Me too, I fail miserably at loving - myself as well as others.

Just one other thing your posts reminded me of - something else from Paul, in Galatians: There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

Love is everything, loving yourself is the beginning, and what you don't love, you can ask for Him to remove.

As to gender self loathing, if you have that, stick around.... it gets way better.

I think the core of it probably always has been gender-related, if not always explicitly. But thank you, it is already beginning to get better!