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Post by Trinity on Dec 7, 2020 9:08:54 GMT 8
It certainly sounds like it. I don't mind the gendering, as long as it matches the presentation I am giving. While I strongly identify with many trans people, there are a lot of differences in how I live and feel from binary trans. I don't have a desire to LEGALLY change my name, I use my "dead" name all the time, and its fine. Trinity is a stage name and a name I use when out stealth binary she in presentation and social function. I grew up in a town of 1700 people in the 60's and 70's. As far as the gender thing went, it was absolutely brutal until I got out of high school in 76, and then all hell broke loose as I went very wild, and sh'e went very feral... Personally I am fullt transitioned female... or more accurately, fully transitioned 100% androgyne by defiinition. I have no intention of GCS, due largely to circumstances, and I really enjoy my times out presenting male. So in the broad nonbinary descriptive, it fits, and beyond that, I am just me, and it took a long time to find out who that really is. Its funny how we feel among the binary trans, isn't it? I always panicked at the thought of changing my name or going through all the legalities. I give all the props in the world to my transgender brothers and sisters. I can’t imagine how hard that is. I really thank you for taking the time to share with me. It’s helped immensely already. I've lived it out and done a lot of it, but not the big ones, just HRT and being out there. But I really understand the binary trans folk as well as the enby folk, especially the older ones and the amab ones because that is where my truth comes from. Doesn't matter because there are so many commonalities with everyone that goes through this. There is no reason to change your name, unless you want to change your name.... the fun thing with the forum, is on here, you can change it as many times as you want and see how it feels. You write the show, play the roles, see how they fit, and eventually, you write the show, the role isn't a role anymore, and you are free to be you in the life you have been cast in. There are no rules, not in this place, except to try to find yourself and be happy.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Dec 7, 2020 12:21:34 GMT 8
When did you know you were non-binary and how do you know for sure that’s what you are? As far back as I remember, I have always had the voice in my head as either female or male and it can be and is mostly both at the same time, I can listen to my voice in my head and feel it as either binary gender and it can switch or become both as fast as I can evaluate whatever it is I'm thinking about. But there is a flow to it all and it is a constant process that I recognize but I don't ever try to change it to match up with what society or the matrix it uses for gender, it is what it is. What the gender matrix dictates as this is a masculine thing or feminine thing doesn't work, things in the way I think are not following those arbitrary rules of the matrix, what the matrix calls masculine, it just doesn't fit that way. There was a time in my life that carrying a scoped rifle and doing the overwatch on a group of people was my job, and there was no conflict in whether doing that and squeezing the trigger was masculine or feminine, it was both but I could listen to the voice in my head and hear it as both, like a fast crosstalk. It was very intense emotionally for me and emotions ran at a very high level, but to be honest, it was the feminine side of me that worked the job the most, it seems like when emotions run high to an extreme, that part of me is better suited. The need to remain in a fluid state of mind was extreme, but the emotional impact hit the masculine side of me in almost the same instant, like the aftermath... The masculine side of me could absorb the shock better and the feminine side sorted out the intensity of the moment, she orchestrated the movements and he took the brunt of the emotional impact of that, but all of this was going on in a coordinated way in my head. Think of it this way, he is aggressive but she is the movement, he is the force behind it all, but she is the thoughts that go from one thing to the next, she is fluid but he is the force behind the fluidity, the movements. She knows what is needed and what to do, he then follows through because she is right, so what is the voice in my head is the same as everyone has one, the conscious thoughts, sometimes as a voice, but for me it is a lot of crosstalk to get from one thing to the next. Just like typing this out can easily be like a voice for my thoughts as I do this, she decides on which key to press, he is making the movements, yet she is coordinating them so it makes it like one thing but at the same time I am aware that there is this she and he doing it at the same time. She is very tactical yet he can think beyond just that and say this is a possibility, that it can be done and she incorporates it into the tactical. And yet he and she can interchange roles in an instant if needed, it isn't as though he knows anything that she doesn't and vice versa, it is after all not the sum of the parts making the whole, the whole is greater than the sum, and this is because the viewpoints and introspection and vision of the whole is she and he as a whole integrated thought pattern that works like a crosstalk of things, but both he and she share everything and emotionally are the same, there is no real gendered she and he, because gender is not something that can work this like I do. I recognize myself as having a she and a he that are interchanging everything in almost a instantaneous way, its in that almost an instant that I can feel she and he respectfully as both are the driver and the navigator, it isn't at all like two people in my head at the same time, it is just me and the respectful sides. Its more of having two viewpoints for virtually everything at the same time, slight differences emotionally, what might be or could be lacking in judgement, is taken up as a consideration of any given situation, it isn't so much gendered as such, yet there are sides to everything that seem to be either she or he, yet both can and do become one side or the other depending on what is needed, and it isn't as if everything seems this way, for the most part, there is like an orchestration of thought that is coming from and going to the same places in thought, she and or he are the whispers that gender is not a real thing and yet there is a feeling of something that would seem to be gender, but saying this is the feminine thing and this is the masculine thing, it just doesn't work that way, and why try to force it to be one or the other, it's both and it's neither, always.
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Post by nyx on Jan 20, 2021 1:59:46 GMT 8
When did you know you were non-binary and how do you know for sure that’s what you are? From the crib, but never knew what it was. Found out about nonbinary 7 years ago after beginning an MTF transition, thought I was just trans but knew something was different. To read this is kind of a relief to me! I've read so many texts of people describing how they knew since forever that they were trans or enby but just didn't have the right terms for it. But I felt more like there is 'something' about myself that is different but I had no idea it was even related to my gender. And still, there are so many moments of insecurity. Sometimes I can't sleep because I am anxious about... I don't actually know what I am afraid of. Of being weird? Of losing something? I catch myself wondering if I would be legit as whatever I am if I wear my feminine dresses one day and t-shirt and jeans the other day - although my rational part knows that this is not about presentation. There are hundreds of stupid thoughts like these. Sometimes I think I'm gonna burst if I don't come out at work so they would stop calling me a woman. Then again I think I will NEVER EVER talk to anyone at work about it. I came out to some friends I trust and they were all cool, but I don't feel safer now, knowing that they know even makes it harder for me to talk because I am very disphoric about my voice. I tried to talk to my mom but she doesn't get the whole nb thing AT ALL... And I can barely breathe while writing this... So my question would be, will this insecurity go away by any chance?
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Post by Iona on Jan 20, 2021 2:12:33 GMT 8
So my question would be, will this insecurity go away by any chance? I wish I did have a definitive answer for you, but really being pretty new to this myself, I'm still quite insecure quite a lot of the time. I would say, I certainly hope so, but even if it never goes away entirely you'll find ways to handle it and the more you gain confidence in knowing who you are - for you, not for anyone else - the smaller those insecurities will become. Those are my hopes for myself too - but I do feel my insecurities and uncertainties shrinking as I follow my path. They can still feel pretty paralyzing sometimes though. And I think it's probably OK to be honest with yourself about that too.
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Post by Leena on Jan 20, 2021 7:55:30 GMT 8
So my question would be, will this insecurity go away by any chance? I knew I was trans as a kid and I still had a lot of insecurity.
It really spiked when I started to explore the possibility of not being in the closet. It mostly went away after I started transitioning physically and socially, though I still have some to be honest. My family and most of my friends don't know I'm transitioning yet, and I don't expect most of them to be accepting. Keeping things a secret from them doesn't help though and is the cause for a lot of anxiety.
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Post by Trinity on Jan 20, 2021 8:26:51 GMT 8
Welcome to the forum Nyx
It was hardest in the beginning, but I am far less insecure now that I am out than I was when I was hiding.
I also over time found my comfort zones living in and out of society, and I have a straight cis wife, and am physically transitioned by hormones, so the source of my greatest insecurity is fear that she would one day not be able to handle it and would leave. So far that has not happened, nor is it really likely, but there are some things I have to do for her comfort, and sex is just gone. That part is hard on both of us.
But it did fade away a lot, what is left is normal, and isn't even gender related, its just life related stuff. Fear of losing a special friendship- which is groundless but it exists anyway, thats my trauma and self exteem issues playing out- fear of losing the wife, fear of old age, just all normal stuff now. But it took a really long time to get here and in the beginning the fear was paralyzing, took me right to the edge and it was a battle every night to keep from going over it.
So, nobody can really predict how it would go for you, but one thing I can say, is that that you found a place here where you can talk about your fears and insecurities and share them with us, and we will be kind listening ears, share our own experience with you, and care.
I choose who I reveal myself to. I don't entrust my gender identity to everyone, they have to earn that trust first, and then I might reveal that intimate part of who I am. But as far as being judged for being who I am?
I could give a rats ass about what other people think. What is important to me is what I think, and the fact that I earned the right to be who I really am, and nobody gets to have the power to make me live a lie.
Hugs.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jan 20, 2021 11:30:09 GMT 8
The more you know the better it will be, but sure there is that bazillion questions you ask yourself all the time. Just know in your heart that there is nothing wrong with you, and others who don't like it are just wrong about their assumptions. You don't owe it to anyone what you decide about your gender, it is about yourself and has nothing to do with them, so again, if they don't understand or don't like it, it isn't wrong for you, they are the ones who are wrong for not caring and not understanding. You owe it to yourself to be who you really are inside, it is no different than sy if you wanted to be a painter and make fine art of one sort or another, you make the art fit you, you don't fit the art, if someone doesn't like your art, thats on them, not you.
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Post by nyx on Jan 23, 2021 19:36:17 GMT 8
I didn't feel ready to answer here because I was SO UPSET just about everything (mostly myself) but today is better so I'm back now. Thank you all for your answers to my kind of silly question. I know this is something that, in a way, I can only answer to myself because... I think most of my insecurities are coming from my anxiety-depression-mix-disorder (my psychiatrist doesn't want to label it, because I am seemingly complicated, LOL) and sometimes it is hard to understand who is talking, my anxious bits or the depressive bits or whatever else there is. Currently, my anxious parts are kind of the boss and everything in my life is affected by fears and insecurities. Welcome to the forum Nyx It was hardest in the beginning, but I am far less insecure now that I am out than I was when I was hiding. I also over time found my comfort zones living in and out of society, and I have a straight cis wife, and am physically transitioned by hormones, so the source of my greatest insecurity is fear that she would one day not be able to handle it and would leave. So far that has not happened, nor is it really likely, but there are some things I have to do for her comfort, and sex is just gone. That part is hard on both of us. But it did fade away a lot, what is left is normal, and isn't even gender related, its just life related stuff. Fear of losing a special friendship- which is groundless but it exists anyway, thats my trauma and self exteem issues playing out- fear of losing the wife, fear of old age, just all normal stuff now. But it took a really long time to get here and in the beginning the fear was paralyzing, took me right to the edge and it was a battle every night to keep from going over it. So, nobody can really predict how it would go for you, but one thing I can say, is that that you found a place here where you can talk about your fears and insecurities and share them with us, and we will be kind listening ears, share our own experience with you, and care. I choose who I reveal myself to. I don't entrust my gender identity to everyone, they have to earn that trust first, and then I might reveal that intimate part of who I am. But as far as being judged for being who I am? I could give a rats ass about what other people think. What is important to me is what I think, and the fact that I earned the right to be who I really am, and nobody gets to have the power to make me live a lie. Hugs. It is really good to have a place to try things out and ask questions, I am thankful for that. The weird thing about the coming out stuff for me is that I am still at a stage where I can't even explain some things to myself. So all I can tell people is that I don't like the whole concept of the binary because it feels wrong and it is just not me. And to any following questions, my answer would be - I don't really know. I don't know which pronouns to pick, mainly because the german language doesn't offer anything itself, in german everything is gendered. We don't have one word for 'the' - it is 'der, die, das' (m, f, n), we have no genderless pronoun like 'they' and so on! I hate it. And of course I don't owe it to anyone to explain myself or to use easy-to-learn-pronouns, but it makes thing not only complicated for others, but for myself as well! I know a lot of people who ramble about all the discussions about gender-open language and when I try to explain to them why I think it makes sense to work on those issues (which I was convinced of even before realizing I was nonbinary) they just reject what I say or start talking even more stupid stuff and sometimes I just leave them be because otherwise I get angry but still won't convince them... There is a part of myself that is very angry all the time and wants to smash the status quo, and maybe this is the part that makes me want to figure out my gender so hard because if I had the right answers for myself, I could run and teach people the same way I teach them about other things (I can be an annoying political smartass...)... Also there is the wish to figure out who I am to learn who exactly I need to lern to love beacause my psychiatrist keeps telling me I need to work on self-love but I can't bring myself to it. There is just no thing like self-love inside me. It is hard to find something you don't know of what it looks like. But I keep searching... The more you know the better it will be, but sure there is that bazillion questions you ask yourself all the time. Just know in your heart that there is nothing wrong with you, and others who don't like it are just wrong about their assumptions. You don't owe it to anyone what you decide about your gender, it is about yourself and has nothing to do with them, so again, if they don't understand or don't like it, it isn't wrong for you, they are the ones who are wrong for not caring and not understanding. You owe it to yourself to be who you really are inside, it is no different than sy if you wanted to be a painter and make fine art of one sort or another, you make the art fit you, you don't fit the art, if someone doesn't like your art, thats on them, not you. I understand your point here. Or lets say, my rational side understands it, while emotionally, it is hard to grasp. I kind of feel the urge to figure something out I can tell people, but not only to tell them - maybe more to tell myself. Something like, I don't am into labels but I kind of need a label to navigate because at the moment, I feel lost in the blue. Does this make any sense? The comparison to art is a good idea anyways. Never looked at it like this. It makes me realize how much these social norms are internalized: art is art so it's ok if it's subjective, but with gender there is this phenomenon that people tend to think it is not subjective - like gender would be the same as sex and therefore something that can easily be categorized - which of course is not true. So thank you for this insight!
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Jan 24, 2021 5:23:17 GMT 8
You don't owe anyone an explanation of how your gender is for you, others don't try to explain their version of gender either, if people question yours, question theirs. If they want to know how you know yours is the way it is, ask them to explain theirs... in detail. For most people, their entire worldview is based on simple assumptions, they question very little of what they have always been told. It's kinda like most people get lost if they travel more than a few miles from their regularly traveled streets, new part of the country, they are lost, they lose their sites that are their bearings, it has none of the same corner store they always turn at to go home. It's always the adventurous who look for the things that are new for them, if you want to use the traveling outside your comfort zone thing, you actively look for those things that make the trip an adventure, you don't look for the corner store to be able to navigate. It's like this in virtually all things, the less you step outside your comfort zone, the more and faster you lose sight of why you ventured out, and here's the thing, you don't owe anyone a reason as to why you ventured out, other than you did and you discovered there is so much more than the usual confines of the comfort zone, people become stagnant and positive that there is always going to be a corner store where they need to turn to find their way forward, they lose sight of the fact that the world is always changing and evolving, sooner or later that store will close and the building torn down. In this country, eating at most of the fast food places in virtually every corner of the country serve the exact same food and it always tastes the exact same, always. The reason they are successful isn't so much how the food tastes, its because people know it will always taste the same, they have lost the adventure of eating foods that are new, there are some people who can't go the entire day without stopping and getting the same order of food they always get, they lack the ability to seek change, and this is the reason so many people cling to old beliefs, change is a scary thing when they never venture out of their comfort zone, they lack the ability to just enjoy different food and it's like this with most people in most things, if you never seek change or deny it exists, then you are just that little rodent who never ventures far from the opening to their little nest. How do you know something is wrong or right if you never have to confront right from wrong? Whos to say it is wrong when they can't explain what they believe to be right in logical and factual ways, life isn't just so, it is always changing and evolving, seek the higher road to get a better view. You always have to put in a little more effort to get that view, but for everyone who has been there, they always say it is worth the effort, expand your yiews to fit the world around you, when that view becomes the same old thing, find another viewpoint.
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Post by Droomvlucht on Feb 3, 2021 20:31:43 GMT 8
And to any following questions, my answer would be - I don't really know. I don't know which pronouns to pick, mainly because the german language doesn't offer anything itself, in german everything is gendered. We don't have one word for 'the' - it is 'der, die, das' (m, f, n), we have no genderless pronoun like 'they' and so on! I hate it. This is very recognisable! German is even more gendered than Dutch. Are there even options for you if you'd want to change your pronoun? It makes me wonder if language defines your identity, if we tend to think more binary because of our native language and lack of other options?
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nyx
Full Member
Posts: 175
Gender: FTM Non-Binary
Pronouns: He/His/Him
Orientation: Queer
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Post by nyx on Feb 4, 2021 21:29:18 GMT 8
And to any following questions, my answer would be - I don't really know. I don't know which pronouns to pick, mainly because the german language doesn't offer anything itself, in german everything is gendered. We don't have one word for 'the' - it is 'der, die, das' (m, f, n), we have no genderless pronoun like 'they' and so on! I hate it. This is very recognisable! German is even more gendered than Dutch. Are there even options for you if you'd want to change your pronoun? It makes me wonder if language defines your identity, if we tend to think more binary because of our native language and lack of other options? I think there is always a connection between our native language and our thoughts. Many things I think about become something like a dialogue with myself - and of course, the usual language is my native one, it happens automatically. There aren't actually any options for gender-neutral pronouns in german, or at least there are none that are naturally part of the language. We have very many neo-pronouns that have been suggested by various groups or persons but nothing that is widely spread and recognisable for "normal" people (I mean those who are not into any gender discussion and don't know outed nonbinary people). Which makes it quite difficult to introduce your pronouns. In the most cases, it won't be enough to say that you prefer certain pronouns - if it is not 'er' or 'sie' you'll have to explain a bit about what you mean and if they don't know anything about nonbinary it'll be a longer conversation... And yes, I think the language underlines the binary. If you don't have the vocabulary to describe your identity it is harder to define. It is great to have this forum to talk about things that, in real life, sometimes are not easy to talk about.
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Post by Droomvlucht on Feb 4, 2021 21:43:26 GMT 8
This is very recognisable! German is even more gendered than Dutch. Are there even options for you if you'd want to change your pronoun? It makes me wonder if language defines your identity, if we tend to think more binary because of our native language and lack of other options? I think there is always a connection between our native language and our thoughts. Many things I think about become something like a dialogue with myself - and of course, the usual language is my native one, it happens automatically. There aren't actually any options for gender-neutral pronouns in german, or at least there are none that are naturally part of the language. We have very many neo-pronouns that have been suggested by various groups or persons but nothing that is widely spread and recognisable for "normal" people (I mean those who are not into any gender discussion and don't know outed nonbinary people). Which makes it quite difficult to introduce your pronouns. In the most cases, it won't be enough to say that you prefer certain pronouns - if it is not 'er' or 'sie' you'll have to explain a bit about what you mean and if they don't know anything about nonbinary it'll be a longer conversation... And yes, I think the language underlines the binary. If you don't have the vocabulary to describe your identity it is harder to define. It is great to have this forum to talk about things that, in real life, sometimes are not easy to talk about. Yes, this is exactly the same as in Dutch. There are some suggestions but the media doesn't use any of them, and the most common one now is 'die' which is nice in text but not really in spoken language because then it sounds the same as '(t/d)ie' (hij = er/he)... A friend of mine uses 'die' though, which is great because it gives me a chance to get used to it a little more. Don't think I'll be brave enough to do that myself though. I've also heard some people think without language, but my thoughts are Dutch and sometimes English (when I think about posting here, for example).
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