Going over the edge on trans

[Trinity]

Its one of my bad days, I have good and bad mentally now, its not really depression but whatever it is its pretty debilitating.


One of the reasons I protect my mind....


I think, as I look back, that when dysphoria broke me I went over an edge, tried to come back from it, and never really did.


It didn't affect my acting stuff, but it drove me deep into the theater again, and then things modded and I wound up here, but as I work out I realize that I have so much to offer if I can just get my head back on again, the art is really powerful that I do.  Pragmatically speaking, it just is.


What stops me right now is circumstance, also some fear, some financial stuff, a lot of safety stuff, and family obligations.


I just think that the overall stress of being trans in hostile environments kind of broke me, my wife and I talk about it, in some ways I have become disabled, certainly in the way I handle the old work stuff, and I basically lived that by grace for a lot of years.


Its an aggregate thing, events unprocessed or not handled right are like the grains of sand on a mound, it keeps on going up and then something gives.   Working the process toward healing, focusing on all of those things, but it takes a toll over the years.   And I do have a lot of years now.


But the topic is whether or not being trans, being nb, can put you over the edge.  I think there is a transition edge, once you get to a certain point I don't think its easy  to go back, yet I know people who have done just that.  For me, its a one way street.

My wife was always afraid I would go over the edge to full binary trans.  I don't feel that edge, but in truth I have lived there as well.

What do you think about the edge?


---- edit- I may take this whole thread down..... I don't want it to go into negative places or defeating type stuff.  Its more about self care and keeping your eyes wide open as to what we are dealing with

[Leena]

In general, society seems to be more accepting of binary trans people than non-binary people. Not sure why your wife seems to be the opposite way, though I suppose being married is a bit different than just tolerating someone existing.

I don't know that there is an edge. There are things that are physically permanent, but it's possible to go back socially even if you have them done. I think some of the old TS mindset resonates with you, it does with me unfortunately at times. The idea of there being no going back is a big part of that mindset.

I can still do guy mode if I feel like it, even doing it right now. Some people might see through it and gender me as a woman anyway, but that doesn't really bother me. People sometimes figured it out long before I started transitioning.

There isn't an easy answer or test if you are binary trans or non-binary. My feelings on it are still up in the air after all these years, but what has been totally clear for a very long time is that I am not cisgender.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Binary trans is by far worse when it comes to society, do bigots call out NB as NB? Not usually and if they do, there are more people who are going to give them shit for it.
There is still the stigma of binary trans, as if they are trying to trick you or cheat you or something on that order, as if that is the case, it's the old they didn't know until after the blowjob in the car thing, if they are found out, they claim that they thought it was a cis binary.
Because for some reason, that makes it more legit? Guys get a blowjob from whoever is there available, they don't care other than they don't want to get caught, because if it was from trans, then they are seen as liking trans, and there is no end to the grief they think they will get.
But it isn't the same thing with NB, that there are so many more people who are saying they are that others know, especially in music and acting, authors and more, while that seems to be OK and they are not kicked to the curb for it.
But if a trans person did that, it would be seen as different, the same old same old excuses, and people can more easily identify with NB than they can trans, even if they can't figure it out, there is that spectrum thing they like to use.
The biggest thing that people have to say about NB is that it is attention seeking and that it isn't really the same thing as trans, even if they realize that it is considered trans just the same, its somehow like a legit trans?
Some contestant in some beauty pageant sort of thing came out as Bi and they won't let her be in the parade on Staten Island, and yet bi is not seen the same as gay or lesbian, but then it has that just trying to fool you into something thing again.
And that's the weakness of cis to begin with, they seem to think that they are being taken advantage of, but with NB, it isn't like they got a blowjob in the car and then found out, they wouldn't know the difference if they tried.
The stigma for that kind of old and unreasonable thinking that is still used by bigots everywhere that trans is somehow only bad and that it is only bad people trying to cheat others is the reason why trans is still seen as bad and NB as not so bad.
People think they can easily see if someone is gay or trans, they aren't so sure about NB, what they used to think of as easy to identify as gay or trans, is now the same as they think they can tell about NB, but they know they can't, even if you tell them they go into denial and say it is attention seeking, so they don't know what to think and since there isn't the old old thinking that goes along with it, as if NB is a new thing in the last couple years, they don't have any idea of what to even say, other than attention seeking sort of bs, as if it is something new and has been only around for a few years, that and there just isn't some phony biblical bs they can throw out there, leviticus everything is evil and going to kill you verse or something on that order, there is only the bigot so called religious who claim it is wrong because the bible, but like most things in life, they can't tell you why or where to look in the bible to get that information, because it isn't there and if they actually look, bigots are far more worse than just about anything or anyone, and there is that directly in the bible, they just don't say bigot, but then that's just one way of saying evil in the bible.

[Trinity]

Mar 3, 2020 8:57:16 GMT 8 Leena said:

In general, society seems to be more accepting of binary trans people than non-binary people. Not sure why your wife seems to be the opposite way, though I suppose being married is a bit different than just tolerating someone existing.

I don't know that there is an edge. There are things that are physically permanent, but it's possible to go back socially even if you have them done. I think some of the old TS mindset resonates with you, it does with me unfortunately at times. The idea of there being no going back is a big part of that mindset.

I can still do guy mode if I feel like it, even doing it right now. Some people might see through it and gender me as a woman anyway, but that doesn't really bother me. People sometimes figured it out long before I started transitioning.

There isn't an easy answer or test if you are binary trans or non-binary. My feelings on it are still up in the air after all these years, but what has been totally clear for a very long time is that I am not cisgender.

There are two edges.  One to binary trans, though if that is your truth, then you should jump over it and learn to fly. Meaning going full trans.  But the second edge is when trans breaks your mind.

I do have some of the old mindset, because I consider myself both ts and nonbinary, I don't see how it would be ruled out, since my sex and sexuality are binary trans female.  And I love being out as sh'e, I was out tonight stealth she again, loved it, needed it, felt great.  Still stealth right now at home in a sense, in the sense that I look totally female.

So yeah, you can revert, go back, though at a point your testicles will atrophy.  Mine have.  

I don't worry about the labels, I just worry about being happy.

But the mental edge, lets face it, living out being trans is stress maxed.

[Ativan Prescribed]

The mental edge of denying who you really are is far worse and accounts for most mental diagnoses.
I wasn't even close when I happened on to susan's, but there were most definitely a lot of conflicts going on for me until I just accepted myself for who I am and didn't bother to even try to find a name for it.
I didn't so much try to hide it as I did decide to be discretionary about it, don't ask don't tell sort of a thing, but the people who knew me best knew me better than I did myself in a lot of ways.
I have had so much more stuff to take me over an edge and I did go over, more than once.
I think once you admit you yourself who you are, there is no going back, you might be able to from a societal standpoint, but personally, I don't even know why a person would want to.

[Trinity]

Mar 3, 2020 11:01:58 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

The mental edge of denying who you really are is far worse and accounts for most mental diagnoses.
I wasn't even close when I happened on to susan's, but there were most definitely a lot of conflicts going on for me until I just accepted myself for who I am and didn't bother to even try to find a name for it.
I didn't so much try to hide it as I did decide to be discretionary about it, don't ask don't tell sort of a thing, but the people who knew me best knew me better than I did myself in a lot of ways.
I have had so much more stuff to take me over and edge and I did go over, more than once.
I think once you admit you yourself who you are, there is no going back, you might be able to from a sicietal standpoint, but personally, I don't even know why a person would want to.

You were talking me off the edge daily back when we were on Susans, and the ts people there were pushing me over the edge to binary ts which would have ended the marriage and probably my life.

The edge began to retreat as I accepted my nonbinary state of who I was, the big moment was the dance in the forest of he and she, entwined in each others arms, it was a breakthrough moment and it brought you literally to tears.

We saw people go over the edge and continue to see it, fear is one of the big driving forces that does that.  Its massive, binary transition, it changes everything, you can lose everything as well.   

Even on a nonbinary transition the same can be true.  So it takes getting support from somewhere, God, Forum, shrinks, we have to use every weapon we have in our arsenal, because there are a lot of people that hate us, and many think its cool to kill or rape trans women, most of my friends have been assaulted.   I personally have not...sort of.... there were attempts but it did not go well for the perpetrators, either in high school or in my latter years, though the high school one left an indelible mark.

So, edges, sure, its mostly fear driven, remember when you had to talk to me to just get me to breathe?

Private conversations, sure, but its good for folk to know how intense it was and still can be.  But it is Oh So Worth It.

[Leena]

Mar 3, 2020 10:46:48 GMT 8 Trinity said:

Mar 3, 2020 8:57:16 GMT 8 Leena said:

In general, society seems to be more accepting of binary trans people than non-binary people. Not sure why your wife seems to be the opposite way, though I suppose being married is a bit different than just tolerating someone existing.

I don't know that there is an edge. There are things that are physically permanent, but it's possible to go back socially even if you have them done. I think some of the old TS mindset resonates with you, it does with me unfortunately at times. The idea of there being no going back is a big part of that mindset.

I can still do guy mode if I feel like it, even doing it right now. Some people might see through it and gender me as a woman anyway, but that doesn't really bother me. People sometimes figured it out long before I started transitioning.

There isn't an easy answer or test if you are binary trans or non-binary. My feelings on it are still up in the air after all these years, but what has been totally clear for a very long time is that I am not cisgender.

There are two edges.  One to binary trans, though if that is your truth, then you should jump over it and learn to fly. Meaning going full trans.  But the second edge is when trans breaks your mind.

I do have some of the old mindset, because I consider myself both ts and nonbinary, I don't see how it would be ruled out, since my sex and sexuality are binary trans female.  And I love being out as sh'e, I was out tonight stealth she again, loved it, needed it, felt great.  Still stealth right now at home in a sense, in the sense that I look totally female.

So yeah, you can revert, go back, though at a point your testicles will atrophy.  Mine have.  

I don't worry about the labels, I just worry about being happy.

But the mental edge, lets face it, living out being trans is stress maxed.

I'm still not sure what I gain by going full time.

I love having lower T and higher E, and I'm glad I got rid of the facial hair, but I don't think I like the way most people treat me when I present as a woman. It's hard to tell if they are truly reading me as a woman, maybe it's just different than I expected. Regardless, I don't like it.

I kind of like how people treat me when they initially gender me as a guy, and I can choose whether to let them see my feminine side or not. It's sort of how I used to do things when I was younger even though I didn't usually present all that feminine, I would open up and act more feminine around people I trusted.

I guess I'm still pretty genderfluid, it's always been that when I feel more feminine I do feel like I am just a trans woman. Except now, I basically am physically. I can still wear whatever I want on any given day though. 

There is a lot less stress when I just wear clothes from the men's department, at least the outermost layer.

[Trinity]

Mar 4, 2020 0:25:59 GMT 8 Leena said:

Mar 3, 2020 10:46:48 GMT 8 Trinity said:

There are two edges.  One to binary trans, though if that is your truth, then you should jump over it and learn to fly. Meaning going full trans.  But the second edge is when trans breaks your mind.

I do have some of the old mindset, because I consider myself both ts and nonbinary, I don't see how it would be ruled out, since my sex and sexuality are binary trans female.  And I love being out as sh'e, I was out tonight stealth she again, loved it, needed it, felt great.  Still stealth right now at home in a sense, in the sense that I look totally female.

So yeah, you can revert, go back, though at a point your testicles will atrophy.  Mine have.  

I don't worry about the labels, I just worry about being happy.

But the mental edge, lets face it, living out being trans is stress maxed.

I'm still not sure what I gain by going full time.

I love having lower T and higher E, and I'm glad I got rid of the facial hair, but I don't think I like the way most people treat me when I present as a woman. It's hard to tell if they are truly reading me as a woman, maybe it's just different than I expected. Regardless, I don't like it.

I kind of like how people treat me when they initially gender me as a guy, and I can choose whether to let them see my feminine side or not. It's sort of how I used to do things when I was younger even though I didn't usually present all that feminine, I would open up and act more feminine around people I trusted.

I guess I'm still pretty genderfluid, it's always been that when I feel more feminine I do feel like I am just a trans woman. Except now, I basically am physically. I can still wear whatever I want on any given day though. 

There is a lot less stress when I just wear clothes from the men's department, at least the outermost layer.

ya know, if we take advantage of our throwback days, when it was the 60's and 70's or whatever it was for you, we can reach back and develop our own style.

I have my own style, the nonbinary creative bohemian look, so you could probably bend some of those boundaries, the matrixy ones or the ones that are where you don't like that male presentation.

There are male clothes I simply will not wear, just don't like it.

Seriously, have fun with the outer presentation, real fun, get a leather cowboy hat, or a side purse ( I have one of those it looks cool and is very nonbinary) - find stuff that turns you on and fuck the matrix, wear what makes you happy and see how that goes, and if others don't like it, well, don't empower their dislike, its none of their business and maybe some day you will feel that there reaction is none of your business either, because your happiness and self worth is so much more valuable than their disapproval of something that they are totally clueless about.

That's what I hate about men.  They have these stupid rules about how you are supposed to look and act, that is tyranny imo and total bs, but seems to be part of the way they think.

I am glad I am not a man but a hybrid instead.

[Leena]

Mar 4, 2020 0:44:01 GMT 8 Trinity said:

Mar 4, 2020 0:25:59 GMT 8 Leena said:

I'm still not sure what I gain by going full time.

I love having lower T and higher E, and I'm glad I got rid of the facial hair, but I don't think I like the way most people treat me when I present as a woman. It's hard to tell if they are truly reading me as a woman, maybe it's just different than I expected. Regardless, I don't like it.

I kind of like how people treat me when they initially gender me as a guy, and I can choose whether to let them see my feminine side or not. It's sort of how I used to do things when I was younger even though I didn't usually present all that feminine, I would open up and act more feminine around people I trusted.

I guess I'm still pretty genderfluid, it's always been that when I feel more feminine I do feel like I am just a trans woman. Except now, I basically am physically. I can still wear whatever I want on any given day though. 

There is a lot less stress when I just wear clothes from the men's department, at least the outermost layer.

ya know, if we take advantage of our throwback days, when it was the 60's and 70's or whatever it was for you, we can reach back and develop our own style.

I have my own style, the nonbinary creative bohemian look, so you could probably bend some of those boundaries, the matrixy ones or the ones that are where you don't like that male presentation.

There are male clothes I simply will not wear, just don't like it.

Seriously, have fun with the outer presentation, real fun, get a leather cowboy hat, or a side purse ( I have one of those it looks cool and is very nonbinary) - find stuff that turns you on and fuck the matrix, wear what makes you happy and see how that goes, and if others don't like it, well, don't empower their dislike, its none of their business and maybe some day you will feel that there reaction is none of your business either, because your happiness and self worth is so much more valuable than their disapproval of something that they are totally clueless about.

That's what I hate about men.  They have these stupid rules about how you are supposed to look and act, that is tyranny imo and total bs, but seems to be part of the way they think.

I am glad I am not a man but a hybrid instead.

It's not like women don't have stupid rules too, though they aren't quite as rigid as they are for men. More complicated though, I'm sure I've been breaking some rules I'm not aware of.

It's a little different when you are purposely breaking or bending the rules. I used to a lot more, though I have to be in the right mood for it. A lot of times, I just want to do whatever I'm out doing and not think about gender.

I kind of always just see myself as a trans woman though, and always have. I don't think I really have a label to describe how I dealt with knowing that I was trans as a kid, and young adult, and not really being in a position to transition. A lot of trans people want to forget about the past, but the way I dealt with it my life really wasn't that bad. I want to draw on the attitude I had then more than any specific style, though some style choices from back then looked good on me, and might still look good on me. Back then, I was OK with dressing like a guy as long as I had my hair long, at least for work, I'm not sure why I shouldn't do that now. At least for a short time.

[Ativan Prescribed]

The biggest slam we can make towards the haters is to simply ignore them.
They call you out, ignore them.
People give disapproving looks, ignore them.
Their game is to try to make you uncomfortable because you make them uncomfortable, but you aren't doing it to intentionally make them uncomfortable.
It's like I said before, being called out has only two responses, one is to ignore, the other is to just say bigot and walk away.
They can't stand that they are being ignored over something they think is right, but the more it happens to them, the more they are going to eventually realize that their opinions don't matter to anyone but them.
Or you can always do the thing with disapproving looks from women as looking them square in the eye and tell them they don't exactly look like women either, that all the money they spend on trying to is just wasted money, because they fail.
Same with men, look at them and tell them it isn't exactly like they are the epitome of manliness, that no matter how hard they try, they just fail.
But the most easiest and effective thing to say if you want to just ruin their day, is to simply say bigot and walk away, they will deny it up and down, but when the people around them say they are a bigot, that hurts, there is nothing more evil than bigots trying to force the world to their views.
What if the country continues to have a bigot in the highest office and all the ones below that, its hard to decide if them being the nazi fascists they are or bigots is worse, but they both go hand in hand.
The idea that NB is hated is going to far if you ask me, if that was true, then trumps and republicans would be devising tests to see if someone was NB so they could deny them their rights as well, but they can't, there isn't such a thing as saying this is the line where people go from being cis binary to NB, the variables are just to many, but they have their definite rules for LGBT, but how are they going to say this person is Q or not? Ask them if they want to be discriminated against?
It's already getting to the point of so much carry over from LGBT to Q that even their simple rules of idiocy are starting to fail them, where they used to be able to just lump anyone they didn't like into one big thing they know nothing about, its painfully aware that they know nothing about NB and can't have any kind of guide for stupid rules, their not christian base can't come up with anything concrete, they can say they don't like NB but then they can't say who is or isn't, another fail on their part to be able to be bigots, and to call them bigots hurts them more than them saying anything about LGBTQ.

[Yuki]

I'm lucky that trans hasn't taken me over any edges.

My husband accepted it relatively quickly, and no one else has really given me shit about it, either. At least, not to my face.

And I'm pretty certain that I'm somewhere in the middle, and not binary trans. I've never doubted that. So that hasn't been an issue for me, either. Really, I just try to not over think it. I see it like, if I figure out later that I am binary, then I can always transition further. But transitioning back is kind of hard.. I'd have to find a way to get rid of the hair from T and things like that.

I'm perfectly fine sitting in the middle while I figure other parts of my life out.. or forever, because I don't think binary genders fit me anyway.

I've definitely had other things push me over an edge that I never fully came back from. But nothing related to my gender. My gender hasn't been much of a problem in my life at all, compared to everything else.

So I'm lucky, as far as that goes. I'm free to be me, and no one is pushing me in any direction. No one really seems to think about or mention my gender at all. I'm just Yuki to everyone.

But I am way too familiar with being pushed over edges in general. You mention being disabled by it happening to you, and that's definitely true for me. I don't know if I'll ever be fully capable of doing what most people can do, because of it. But that's just the way it is.

But my gender is fine, at least. Lol.

Maybe if I did work and I was out in public more, it might be different and more difficult.. I don't know. But right now I can choose who is around me.

And being in a truck, being someone who is read as female but leans masculine is probably pretty normal so I'm sure no other truckers at truck stops or anything will think much of it, either. I'll probably blend in there, aside from not being white.. but even then, it seems like more and more non white people are in trucks now, too, anyway. So no one will probably even notice me much.

But also being AFAB nonbinary is generally easier than AMAB for most people anyway.

[Leena]

Mar 4, 2020 13:43:31 GMT 8 Yuki said:

I'm lucky that trans hasn't taken me over any edges.

My husband accepted it relatively quickly, and no one else has really given me shit about it, either. At least, not to my face.

And I'm pretty certain that I'm somewhere in the middle, and not binary trans. I've never doubted that. So that hasn't been an issue for me, either. Really, I just try to not over think it. I see it like, if I figure out later that I am binary, then I can always transition further. But transitioning back is kind of hard.. I'd have to find a way to get rid of the hair from T and things like that.

I'm perfectly fine sitting in the middle while I figure other parts of my life out.. or forever, because I don't think binary genders fit me anyway.

I've definitely had other things push me over an edge that I never fully came back from. But nothing related to my gender. My gender hasn't been much of a problem in my life at all, compared to everything else.

So I'm lucky, as far as that goes. I'm free to be me, and no one is pushing me in any direction. No one really seems to think about or mention my gender at all. I'm just Yuki to everyone.

But I am way too familiar with being pushed over edges in general. You mention being disabled by it happening to you, and that's definitely true for me. I don't know if I'll ever be fully capable of doing what most people can do, because of it. But that's just the way it is.

But my gender is fine, at least. Lol.

Maybe if I did work and I was out in public more, it might be different and more difficult.. I don't know. But right now I can choose who is around me.

And being in a truck, being someone who is read as female but leans masculine is probably pretty normal so I'm sure no other truckers at truck stops or anything will think much of it, either. I'll probably blend in there, aside from not being white.. but even then, it seems like more and more non white people are in trucks now, too, anyway. So no one will probably even notice me much.

But also being AFAB nonbinary is generally easier than AMAB for most people anyway.

My dysphoria was not all that bad when I was working full time. Less time to think about it perhaps.

Spent part of the day out in business casual clothes I used to wear to my last job. While that isn't my preferred way of dressing, I'm not sure about presenting in professional clothes from the women's department just yet. Maybe someday, but I strangely look more feminine wearing clothes from the men's department, and super masculine while wearing most clothes from the women's department.