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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 2:47:44 GMT 8
There are many prices to pay, are there not?
Many choices to make.
The way of self, the way of family.
The way of pain, the way of freedom.
Giving up self centered fears, finding the heart to love others by helping them on the forum, in the community.
The dollars involved, the time involved.
The endless shots and meds, forever.
The bullying and the in your face lifestyle if your are out trans.
Its trite to say it.
i am not willing to pay with my family. I am willing to pay any price in dollars and forum time. But in open community, where the cost is the ciswife, no. Where I lose a daughter, no, I am too conflicted to do that. To open the home, I cannot. Present circumstances do not yet allow this to happen. The evolution of thye process must go on first.
The cost of patience, the cost of support when you hate what someone else is doing because of the collateral damage.
It is not a light question. Not a frivolous question, not if we are honest with ourselves.
What price are you willing to pay to be trans, to be part of the community of trans on this earth?
Pay the price of stealth's end?
What would we gain, if we pay the price, what is the cost, what are you willing to do, to give up, to get .... what?
A body, a community, a life?
What price are you willing to pay to be real?
TSJ
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Post by Edge on Apr 6, 2015 4:02:37 GMT 8
For me, I'm trans whether I'm willing to pay a price for it or not. However, I would pay any price to live as who I am.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 2:28:22 GMT 8
I don't really want to be trans now but of course it's too late because I am and am making the best of it. I probably could have lost my soul over it at one point but reigned it in rather than continued on transitioning at warp speed, which in effect is saying that it could have cost me my marriage and my family but it didn't because we worked things out and put them into perspective. There was some collateral damage, nothing to cry about just some dorks that were really just associates rather than friends, kind of hanger's on who show up when not wanted, call at inopportune times and disrupt my serenity, so no loss. Being trans really didn't cost me anything other than the money I might have pissed away on something stupid anyway.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Apr 7, 2015 7:25:09 GMT 8
Relative to the price I've had to pay in so many different ways for things I've done, who I was at different times in my life, it doesn't seem like there really is a price I've had to pay. I suppose it is a part of some things, a big part with other things, but never just because of being trans. It was just a part of it all in one way or another. I don't know how to separate that, to make it that distinguishable to be able to define a role it plays in life as it is right now. I've always been this way and there's very few things I could use it for, to say it cost me something. HRT, low dose certainly changed a lot of things, Spiro blocks the T enough that it takes a huge edge off of things for me. Mellows me out quite a bit, surprisingly so. Some might not think so, but then you don't look at it like I do, that having it makes it less likely that I will hurt you or worse. That right there is the price to pay for another time or part of my life I suppose. The E patch that I use smooths things out. Does that come with a price though? Neither costs enough to really worry about, I have no co-pay, so... no up front costs, I don't pay now for the insurance I have, I already paid for it quite awhile ago. I suppose if I wanted to factor it into my life and what the price has been over the years, then comparatively, it might be a pretty big price. But it doesn't feel like it needs to be that much of a factor, it doesn't feel that way, but no doubt it had a lot to do with decisions made. Actually, one price to pay brought trans front and center for a lot of things, and I suppose I am paying a price, for what that in turn had a lot to do with the price right now. But it was a part of a chain of things, not separate from them. Yah it was all as crazy as that just sounded, hard to explain, even when I have. It's just to integrated into so much that to separate it is useless in trying, But then, I've had a price to pay for so many things, I guess you could say a portion of the price I've paid for the life I've had is the price for admission to the trans part of it all. Kind of like the price of admission for each act in each ring of a three ring circus, is part of the price of the admission ticket to the circus that life really,.. has been. Ativan
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Post by Ayla on Apr 7, 2015 8:00:15 GMT 8
Playing Devil's advocate for a moment - perhaps the question could be reframed to read: What are the costs and benefits of being trans? Viewed this way I see many more benefits than costs to being trans. Being trans, and in particular being non binary, means that you have the need/opportunity to self author your life. It is too hard to just drift through encapsulated by a box and expectations that just don't fit. Being non binary caused me to question a whole lot of assumptions, and to reset and to reframe my life. This in itself was a good thing. Without this need or driver I may have been like many others who just take things and themselves at face value. What is achieved if there isn't growth, challenge and stress?
Safe travels
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 9:06:27 GMT 8
The rephrase is fine...
I was willing to pay any price. I fully expected to live alone in a small apartment, possibly drunk and stoned, with some low paying job in a dive. I was desperate enough to go there.
I was willing to pay the price for the best therapist and endo I could get. To keep at it after the letter for hrt was written. To dig deep.
I was willing to pay the price of patience, to delay each step till I could no longer, giving my body and family and emotions time to catch up.
I gained more than my wildest dreams paying that price, the price that succeeds, once in a while.
A small price. A quarter of my paycheck..a small price I have other means that play, moonlighting, benefiting from past discipline, another price, another payoff.
But the truth is we don't know the cost of living trans. The courage it takes, the balls to be free.
We don't know what we will lose or gain.
We cannot see around the corner of the thorny path. Once in a while, we glimpse a dream...
We just do not know. But if the price was paid without self deception, we buy our freedom, we buy our pride, we win ourselves, we live out our truth, a rare prize in a world of posturing, a wealth so many never have.
And we get each other, if we desire that.
Cherish the gifts you bought, the harder roads sometimes yield great gains, but the truth is, we just don't know.
Speaking for myself.. cause all I know really is this.
I found me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2015 23:03:45 GMT 8
Edge and Mariah are spot on. There is no price to be trans, it either is or is not. However the price to live authentically and openly is the price of living and accepting of who we are. It is the price of remaining alive. There's no price to being trans? What about the carnage people create for their marriage and families? What about the loss of certain friendships and ostracism by others in the neighborhood, the church and other social organizations and in the workplace? How many have lost their livelihood having been deemed unemployable because they no longer fit company prerequisites and the business model? How about the tens of thousands of dollars for various surgeries, counseling and the sweat and tears? And being authentic, what the hell does that mean in light of all that? Here we are again, just laying out another load of crap for the seriously delusional and emotionally vulnerable just like what goes on at Susan's. The price for many is huge up to and including the loss of life to suicide. I don't buy it, the price it huge and it may cost you everything!
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Apr 9, 2015 23:45:00 GMT 8
There is a price to pay, you're nobody special. Not exempt. Neither is that group we walked away from last November. There's no need to bring that same ideology here, to be authentic is to be real, not a fantasy that it costs nothing. Authentic means facing the truths, every second of every day. Regardless, authentic is to know the price everyone pays to be who they are. I paid a very high price and I am still paying for it. It's the price we all pay, all the time. Knowing who you are and acknowledging those from your past is living in the now. The true authentic. It is, regardless. Ativan
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 0:28:58 GMT 8
They need the truth, they need to prepare themselves for the war they are going to be in, they need to be warned and they need to know where to go to get help.
It is a war, and a warriors world in the world of trans, it takes the same kind of balls, and the same discretion about what to say, when, who to take out, who to leave alone.
And when to be silent, and when to speak up.
It takes preparation to build strength, and knowing the full consequences that can unfold.
It requires truth, and the truth is not pleasant.
For any of the trans types.
What price to pay to be free, while conscious of collateral damage. The way of self will bear very sad fruit.
Now its time for me to be silent and listen and learn.
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Post by Edge on Apr 10, 2015 0:42:26 GMT 8
Of I definitely agree there's a price. I just also think I would be trans regardless of whether I'm willing to pay it or not and if I had decided not to transition, I'd be paying a different price.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 0:43:22 GMT 8
We're dealing with reality here, not some ephemeral pie in the sky poof and twaffle about the feeling of authenticity, we're dealing with the real price in terms of great personal losses incurred in the process to say nothing of the financial costs. I refuse to offer encouragement to people who are moved by the emotional issues and who have never counted the cost before plunging into the transition process, it's a prescription for disappointment for some and sometimes disaster for others. I know people are drawn to the trans life because internally they feel they are trans, but the process of self actualization is damned costly and we need to be honest with people about it. I don't buy into a lot of people's stories about being trans all their lives either, Julie you formerly self described as a "Gay Man" prior to transition, I was a "He Man" prior to mine and honesty has a lot more to do with being authentic than what I see going here.
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Post by Edge on Apr 10, 2015 1:10:11 GMT 8
I don't know what's "sky poof," "twaffle," or not real about biological organs and the scientific studies that have been done on them, but good job insulting people.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 1:38:19 GMT 8
I don't know what's "sky poof," "twaffle," or not real about biological organs and the scientific studies that have been done on them, but good job insulting people. Honesty has everything to do with being authentic, if being honest is insulting then so be it! Being "liked" has never been important, it's why I am not on Facebook because sometimes I say things that aren't warm and fuzzy, sometimes I'm hated for it and I don't care, because honesty and integrity are infinitely more important than being liked or by being well received by everyone. Be honest and be real, it's an important quality in the real world and we need to share that with others, it needs to be a part of who we are here and we needn't feel that we need to tell someone that they look pretty or beautiful when we know in our hearts that we wouldn't even invite them to a dog fight. It's worse than being insulting to lie to someone about things that are forever going to impact their lives.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2015 2:06:16 GMT 8
Well I have paid for it from the very beginning. Even when I was really young like around five years old, people thought I was a daughter to my parents instead of a son. OK so I have been called gay. I am not gay, I am bisexual. I have been called a "faggot". Well I am not a "faggot ( that was one o the words that was used when I was younger.) I am bi and even though I have a "dinger" I was still female inside. I have been verbally abused and a few times physically abused. I have been called "sissy" by some butch lesbians. My answer was that I could show them a real lipstick bitch. A couple have even took me up on the challenge. I have been called a tranny and I would ask how many gears did I have? 4, 5, or 6? Maybe in a big truck was I 9 speed, 10 speed, 13 speed or 18 speed? Was I an automatic or a standard? Yeah my smartass stage but better to be a smartass than a dumbass. Again some have challenged me on the statements. I have been called a "shemale". So big deal. You think that hurts my feelings? Not really. I have to be something and I am not a male and not a female so anything with "she" in it delights me to the fullest. Sorry if that offends anyone. Again some have thought they would test me on that description. Most are taken aback and left me alone. Others had their own little "kinks" and "desires". OMG thinking back. I could have been killed just for being a "gay or tranny or shemale" smartass. I didn't really care though. Some people really surprised me. Some I think my have surprised themselves. Some have been ashamed and some I have been ashamed to have been with. Others fell in love but I didn't and I have fallen in love and they didn't. Some we both fell hard but drifted apart. I think I have paid for it already and now I have the title in my hand and own it. LGBT or cis. Who cares? Love and caring is love and caring and being who you are without fear or shame is priceless. I am me and I own everything that I am. I have lost friends which is a price to pay but made better friends, true friends. I have lost family members that have disowned me but some have accepted me and found other family that is not genetic, that is priceless. I have paid the price. But I feel I owe so much more because the family that does accept me is true. The friends that accept me are true friends and not the fake BS because of this that or the other. Being Trans isn't the best thing in the world to be but not the worst thing either. It has allowed me to weed out the idiots and fakes from the true friends and family. This is when I was younger and now. But it has cost me a wife that I loved that loved the female me but couldn't ever come to terms with it. Someone better always will come along though if you are open to it. Someone better came along for me. Someone that I can hang onto and hang on to me in a bad thunderstorm and stroke my hair and tell me it's gonna' be OK. Someone that will not let anyone call me the derogatory names even though they don't bother me and I will always wear them with pride because that is me and who I am in the perception of society. I'm Trans. Deal with it. We are here and we are stronger than what most people think. I've paid the price but I think I owe much more. No it's not a good thing and has caused me hell but has instilled something in me that nothing else ever could. It really is a two edged sword. One question that you need to ask is what is the price you should pay for being trans? It gives us a way deeper understanding of ourselves even though it is confusing sometimes and painful other times. We know ourselves inside and a lot of times unfortunately outside too in the way of dyphoria but we should all live according who we are on the inside and not the outside. Society is a monster of it's own making and we should fight that monster. And we do because we go against society's current of thinking. So the price? How much more do I owe for being trans? Yeah I have paid for it. I own it. It has made me who I am. It has made me a thoughtful caring person regardless if anyone thinks or cares about me. It has given me a great sympathy not of only LGBT but anyone else that is different.
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Post by Edge on Apr 10, 2015 7:21:39 GMT 8
I don't know what's "sky poof," "twaffle," or not real about biological organs and the scientific studies that have been done on them, but good job insulting people. Honesty has everything to do with being authentic, if being honest is insulting then so be it! Being "liked" has never been important, it's why I am not on Facebook because sometimes I say things that aren't warm and fuzzy, sometimes I'm hated for it and I don't care, because honesty and integrity are infinitely more important than being liked or by being well received by everyone. Be honest and be real, it's an important quality in the real world and we need to share that with others, it needs to be a part of who we are here and we needn't feel that we need to tell someone that they look pretty or beautiful when we know in our hearts that we wouldn't even invite them to a dog fight. It's worse than being insulting to lie to someone about things that are forever going to impact their lives. Fine. Fine. So now you're complaining about the price despite the fact that you're also simultaneously insisting that being trans is a choice and, therefore, you willingly chose to pay said price for no biological or psychological reason. Since you've apparently made yourself miserable of your own free will for no reason, you assume that the rest of us must also make ourselves miserable of our own free will for no reason. This is despite the evidence found in scientific studies that supports the fact that people are born trans. This is also despite the fact that some of us actually don't lose everything. (I haven't lost anything, actually.) And now that you're being called on out it you're whining about how you're being "hated" for being "honest" when what you're really doing is projecting yourself onto everyone else. That's the impression I get. Although, I also get the impression that arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall, so I don't know why I'm bothering.
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