What brought you to the forum?

[Taka]

define normal.....is it normal for you? do you want it to be normal? do you want others to think it is normal?
Here in the Androgyn[nb] Forest it's not even a question. It just is.

This quote is what made me stay in another place, and eventually brought me to this place when people moved away from some rather destructive forces.

That's eight years ago already,and I spent the next two years just trying to put myself together the right way. While playing with the children of the unicorn forest. Some of those children are still here, and new ones have come to join.

That is a joyful thing.

Other people may nit see us as normal. But we are all learning to be more normal to ourselves than what most people will ever realise should be a goal.

Letting go of all prejudice means letting yourself exist wholly and truthfully. This is what kept me staying, even though I rarely visit nowadays.

[Ativan Prescribed]

By gaining the ability to perceive yourself as normal, you begin to realize just how much the supposed normal just isn't.
Far too many people let the wrong things guide them in life, they follow rather than step out ahead and truly explore.
The chosen path that is right for anyone isn't going to be the normal one that is assumed to be the right one, that path holds no clues to life itself, it is a forced existence.
If it wasn't for the people who refuse to follow the path they are told is the one they are supposed to follow, there would be no advances in anything, innovation would cease to exist, then everyone would be stuck with the sameness all the time, stable but hardly worth living like that.
That old place had the one way to do what they expected of people there, the plan, the supposed only way to become the person you are, but they assumed that everyone wanted the very exact same thing, they drilled it into people to accept their plan.
They lost the ability to innovate in what they were trying to accomplish, it is its own matrix of unrealistic expectations, if you don't meet the standard then you are a failure as well, it essentially is putting a noose around peoples necks who just want help.
But there are no rules here, there is no one way, the way for anyone is the best way they can find, each person's normal is the normal they seek, it isn't a set of instructions, it's encouragement to find the path that is right for you.

[Leena]

I thought maybe I would fit in more at the old place after I started HRT, but I really do not.

I am not normal, and don't really want to be...I tried being a normal guy as an adult and I hated it...I'm not really wanting to be a normal girl either. It was a gradual change into wanting to be perceived as a normal guy though. Who I was as a kid was anything but normal, but neither were any of my attempts to be a normal guy either really. I maybe got a taste of being normal if I looked normal and didn't have to say or do much, but once people got to know me, they knew I was not normal.

Being a normal guy or normal girl works well for those that happen to be what this society perceives as normal. Maybe it does work well for some binary trans people once they transition. It doesn't work for everyone.

[charley83]

Jul 11, 2019 23:41:47 GMT 8 Leena said:

I thought maybe I would fit in more at the old place after I started HRT, but I really do not.

I am not normal, and don't really want to be...I tried being a normal guy as an adult and I hated it...I'm not really wanting to be a normal girl either. It was a gradual change into wanting to be perceived as a normal guy though. Who I was as a kid was anything but normal, but neither were any of my attempts to be a normal guy either really. I maybe got a taste of being normal if I looked normal and didn't have to say or do much, but once people got to know me, they knew I was not normal.

Being a normal guy or normal girl works well for those that happen to be what this society perceives as normal. Maybe it does work well for some binary trans people once they transition. It doesn't work for everyone.

Ha what is this so called "normal"? I have always said that no one has a right to say who is normal and whos bot because everyone is weird in so many ways. What is my normal is someone elses insane and then another persons odd. Society as a whole can not define what is normal or not because no one is the same. Even identical twins who by all appearnaces are the same are still so different from each other. I have always strived to be different even before I realized I was NB. I never wanted to fit into a mold and go along with what others wanted me to do. I rebeled and some people chastized me for it but most of the people who truly knew me and loved me applauded my rebellion and encouraged my so called "odd" behavior. So each person has thier own views on what is normal for them and has no right to judge anyone elses normal.

[charley83]

Saw this in a book I am reading and though of here.

"Comparing yourself to what is perceived as normal will always set you up for failure."

[Ativan Prescribed]

For almost all people, normal is a standard that they are expected to reach or at least aim for by trying to be that normal.
Ask anyone and they have no idea what it is, but they seem to know it when they see it, but seeing it is only their perception.
So it is always a path towards failure and other things, life can be a disappointment for you if you try and can't reach the perceptions that others have, that you perceive they have.
So long as a person can have the feelings of normal for themselves, then they can be happy and pursue life in the way that is normal for them, it isn't dependent on others perceptions, because perceptions are always an illusion of sorts.
Trying to satisfy others expectations of their perceptions of anything is hardly going to be a fulfilling life, you are always following and have no idea where it is leading you, there is that feeling of being lost and unsure of yourself even.
But people can't define normal, they can give an opinion of something as to whether it meets their perception of whether it is normal, they can also grade you according to what they think is normal, you're a genius, you're a failure.
Or they can just stare and wonder if their perception is actually real or not, most people are confused to one degree or another.
I worked on the cutting edge of product development and that pushed the science to the edge as well at times, nobody had any real idea of what we were doing, so many tries failed, but that is why it is called research and development.
I was very good at it, never afraid to just kick something over the edge and see if it came back the right way, life is like that and I think it is the very same as far as we research and then throw that together as the development and hope it works.
I dislike the people who are so absolute in their perceptions, as if everyone has the same ones, nobody does, it's a game of who finds the best stuff and then puts it together in innovative ways, that's the win almost always.
Life is very much the same approach as science that is available at the time, if we get the right combination, we come out on top, the genius, and its one more thing that civilisation uses to move forward.
For any individual to move forward, you have to look for the information and then put it together into something that moves you forward, we test things out by taking them to the edge and sometimes kicking it over to see if it works like it should.
People should be thriving on not the normal, but on what it takes to move past that, to get ahead of the crowd, to maybe hope that we can break the barriers and just be ourselves and never worrying about what others perceptions are because we left them in the dust.
There is no prize at the end, we just get there and in that final moment, we take a look at the sum of our lives to see if it was indeed even better than that.
Children have one job, to figure it out, so that they can then have children who do the same, if we don't have children, then just watch them when you can, they have a perception of normal, but they are too busy to really give a shit.
Normal is that bottom line that we are expected to at least be that if we can't just be better, so without a real definition of normal, and the realisation that it is very overrated, we can always innovate in our normals and then let others try to reach that level, if they even try.

[Leena]

Knowing what's considered normal isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of what I do is really pushing on the edge of what's considered normal. Not just how I present, but how I work, how I play music, how I do most everything. Too far away from normal, most people are just going to see it as weird and will often have a very negative reaction.

It is a problem if seeing yourself as not normal makes you see yourself on some sort of hierarchy and below those that are considered normal. It doesn't help that many of those who do see themselves as normal do see it that way, and let it be known. This hasn't really been all that much a problem for me personally, though perhaps at times...

[Trinity]

Jul 14, 2019 8:36:24 GMT 8 Leena said:

Knowing what's considered normal isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of what I do is really pushing on the edge of what's considered normal. Not just how I present, but how I work, how I play music, how I do most everything. Too far away from normal, most people are just going to see it as weird and will often have a very negative reaction.

It is a problem if seeing yourself as not normal makes you see yourself on some sort of hierarchy and below those that are considered normal. It doesn't help that many of those who do see themselves as normal do see it that way, and let it be known. This hasn't really been all that much a problem for me personally, though perhaps at times...

Among just us, cis would not be normal, because we are who we are and that is normal to us.

Its easy to then look down on them too.  Especially if they force thier normal on others.

Live and let live.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Cis isn't necessarily not normal and we don't have to look down on them, we can pick out the ones who try to undermine our lives though, if they were trans it would be the same thing, just don't take us down if you don't want it in return.
If others perceptions of anyone is to the point of it being to weird, that can go either way, most of the innovators of our times and through history were looked down on as just simply idiots who chases things that aren't real.
Almost all in the truly innovative people in history are also the ones who endured the ridicule and persisted, they had their normal and didn't care, they knew they were going to the ones to do whatever.
The Wright brothers were seen as the bicycle makers who flew kites instead of making bikes, people outright laughed at them on the streets, they even laughed at their gliders, just saw them as big kites, they saw them as abnormal.
Its the same for so many people, instead of letting people do the things they see as important, even their failures aren't real failures, its in those mistakes that others find the data that is the information they needed.
It's the no science people who are now the real idiots, the deniers and at the same time conspiracy believers, but they don't think science is important as they write that shit on a computer that instantly anyone on the planet can see, they don't see science in that.
They see it as like some magical voodoo thing because they just can't comprehend it and if they can't, then there is something wrong with it, because they consider themselves to be smart, smarter, the smartest, but they are the fools of our time.

It is so necessary for the human spirit to be able to create, to invent, to write music and stories, to just be here is such a disappointment, those people will end their lives not having a sense of ever doing anything that mattered in the least.
It's what people like the republicans as they are now want people to be, the drones they need to make them money, when they know that if they have it all, it means nothing, and at the point they are at now, their wealth means nothing to anyone else, they are seen as nothing more than fools who have too much money, they don't do anything of any importance, except those few who do innovate, Tesla and Space X are just two of the better things, but have they really done anything worth the time and money they spend on it?
For them it is important, listen to Musk as he talks about the future that he is trying to make, the very same people who deny science are depending on his scientists to get man on the moon again, but we won't see the same benefits and innovation that can be used for so many things as what NASA produced back in its moonshot days, but humanity is still being dragged along behind the people who actually do things that is more than just seeing how much more money they can take out of circulation, when the dollar drops in value, people don't really care, but if you have most of the money, you just dropped in value, and their entirety is based on that value because they got there without having anything else of value.
People like trump see that people like Musk and others who have way more than he will ever have as people to turn his nose up at, because they spend that money to not only make more, but so they can do more, it isn't a matter of who has the most, they don't care.
And that's where the children come in, all of most everything is not something they care about, they care about finding something new to think about and use to grow up, they innovate all the time, but they don't care about money, they don't have that need to hide it away.
People like trump are the real village idiots of our time, they say a lot but don't say anything that is important, they just stir the pot and hope they get more money out of it, what has trump ever done that is of any importance, that he will be remembered for in the years to come?
He considers himself to be the normal that others should look up to, he fucking demands that attention, he's nothing more than an idiot.

[Leena]

Jul 14, 2019 9:49:36 GMT 8 Trinity said:

Among just us, cis would not be normal, because we are who we are and that is normal to us.

Its easy to then look down on them too.  Especially if they force thier normal on others.

Live and let live.

It is easy to look down upon entire groups of people, but I think it's better not to.

I don't really know what the solution is to deal with people that look down on you other than to avoid them as much as possible. Changing people's minds rarely works, and it doesn't work by rational discussion.

[Trinity]

Jul 15, 2019 2:08:14 GMT 8 Leena said:

Jul 14, 2019 9:49:36 GMT 8 Trinity said:

Among just us, cis would not be normal, because we are who we are and that is normal to us.

Its easy to then look down on them too.  Especially if they force thier normal on others.

Live and let live.

It is easy to look down upon entire groups of people, but I think it's better not to.

I don't really know what the solution is to deal with people that look down on you other than to avoid them as much as possible. Changing people's minds rarely works, and it doesn't work by rational discussion.

Detachment.

If we dont buy into or agree with them, there is no blow to our self esteem, only a cwrtain sadness at the effects of their pride on others and the poison that can be spread.

At least for me.  Took a long time to get here

[Ativan Prescribed]

Read a thing about NB microdosing, same thing as low dose.
But what caught my eye was the statement from a healthcare provider who has about 250 trans patients, and out of those, about a 100 consider themselves to be NB.
I've always said that there are likely more NB than there are TS, and while this isn't more, it is pretty much in the range that it could be, this is just one person talking about their patients.
So while the people like trump who thinks they can just run right over trans and gay, they don't have a clue, they don't know and there are way more people who just don't put it out front.
Since it isn't an apparent thing to the pence can suck mine crowd, it narrows them down even further by the stupidity of them, and it isn't a hate kind of thing, it is a lot of disgust.
Society has come a long ways and they can't turn back the clock, and they want to because they don't understand society as it is today, so the disgust is for them trying to force society to bend to them.
It isn't going to happen and sure if they are ignored, then that's one thing, but if they can actually disrupt others lives because they think they have the power to do so, then turning away isn't the smart thing to do.
What is, is to fight back with the logic that they simply don't have and find hard to comprehend.
Trump tweeted that the women of color in the house need to go back to the country they came from, the idiot knows they are citizens and to make my point, people need to tell the fucker to go back to his country, if Ireland would even take him.
But just taking it from the haters just lets them continue on and they think they are winning that way, taking that away from them is the thing to do, so voting all of them out is just one big thing that needs to be done.
And then run all over their heads with remarks that they certainly aren't going to like but are more true than their brand of bullshit, and the people who support that are going to just have to take it, turn away from the fact that they are more than just wrong.

[Leena]

Jul 15, 2019 9:45:15 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

Read a thing about NB microdosing, same thing as low dose.
But what caught my eye was the statement from a healthcare provider who has about 250 trans patients, and out of those, about a 100 consider themselves to be NB.
I've always said that there are likely more NB than there are TS, and while this isn't more, it is pretty much in the range that it could be, this is just one person talking about their patients.

Doesn't mean there isn't more, as not all non-binary people seek medical treatment. Not all binary trans people do either for a variety of reasons, but I would expect less non-binary than binary trans people eventually seek it.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Which is why I think there are way more NB than any other trans, it just stands to reason to me, I've known and have seen it all my life, but you just can't walk up to anyone and tell them you know, maybe they don't want that at all.
But like TS have a more immediate need to get to where they want to be and that takes having to step up and say something, NB just don't have to do that, life goes on and they can be just as happy either way.

[abbynormal1929]

Hello,. I'm new to this forum. There's only so many places I can say this without being recurved by skepticism, but I just wanted to say somrwhere that I am non-binary, and proud ofit. I prefer they/their promouns. I'm biologically male but not strictly a man. I have many feminine parts if my prrsonality that I'm very proud of and love to express, but I'm not strictly a woman. Only place I can express this outside of internet land is a trans/Ally chorus that I am a member of. Every time someone new joins we all introduce ourselves and say our pronouns, and I feel like myself there. Many kinds of peiple: trans male/transfemale, male/femake, non binary, and I'm proud to call all of theses individuals my friends. Not because of their identifications, but because they're all amazing and accepting. This is kinda of an after work late night rant. I just wanted to say I'm happy I found this site and I'm happy to be supportive of others here.