nonbinary wiring

[Trinity]

How are you wired?  Physically and emotionally?

I'm not talking about labels here, I mean, how does your body work, your feelings work?

I always walked like a woman, meaning fluidly, with swing, in the bottom.

I always responded physically like a female does.

Emotionally, I have always been very sensitive, all that stuff.

Yet, I can be very aggressive, intensely competitive, which of course traits I share with Danika Patrick....so maybe we can drop the stereotypical assigning of attributes, or maybe not....

How I speak and how I sound, can vary, on the phone I am always gendered male, I know binary trans females that speak like men speak, but we both know that the voice and nuances are not reflected in our bodies.  I have seen that so many times in transfolk that refuse to mod their voices.  And yet, I also know others who you would swear were girls, Valerie has a voice like that.

Enough so that my wife heard her voice calling me recently and all hell broke loose, thought I had a girlfriend.

Um, no.... that's not how it works with me..... attractions are much different.  I think I'll drop it there

But when it comes to the body, I am wired a certain way, way over to the female sexual nature.  Walk that way, sit that way, though my body language changes when not at rest, when out and about, characteristically as  a male androgyne.   I allow in stealth mode to slide all the way to the female body language.

Binary trans women work hard on walking a certain way, talking that way, all the stuff of the matrix.

I don't work at it at all.  It all comes naturally to me, it just is, its the wiring.

How are you wired, emotionally, physically... even socially, what does it feel like to be you?

Hope the newbies weigh in on this, could be a good thread, because it describes what it feels like, to be nb and trans, or to just be you, forget the nb and trans part, its just, us, isn't it, and how we feel and live and breathe as the special people we really are.

Love to all here

Nails out, head up, heart wide open

Trinity Satin Joy

[Leena]

I'm not sure on my voice. I actively started faking a deep voice when I was in high school, mainly because people made fun of me having the highest voice when the teacher called roll. I ended up doing this elsewhere though I was only able to do it for mostly one word.

At some point, this became more of my natural voice, but I still stuck with one word responses. I eventually got more talkative, but this got mixed in with social phobia, and I became a very shy person.

I've been starting to do a similar thing with my voice, instead trying to do a higher voice for my one word answers to cashiers. This probably isn't the best way to do it. I really should do real voice training if I'm going to change my voice. I don't really want to go back to doing one word answers for everything. I have a fairly wide range with my singing voice, it seems like I should be able to get my speaking voice higher.

My mannerisms have always been very feminine and I used to spend a lot of energy in keeping them masculine. I don't do that much anymore unless I'm around scary men.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Everything is a mix of what some think of as gender attributes, I know all about them and I don't use them that way, but I can if I want to, and sometimes do depending on the situation.
I can become the person I am around the most and I can also pick up on the things of others that make them different, unique I guess.
This isn't any different between male and female although male is easier to do, but female holds a fascination because I can pick up things and become them.
That is just natural, male stuff comes natural, and the combinations are all natural, to the point that I don't if there is a dominant part to things, it always depends.
I can be just downright harmful to others physically and mentally, just destroy their day, their week, tha year and longer, I aim to inflict permanent damage on some so they will never forget that they shouldn't have messed with me ot those I care about, and at the very same time be as kind gentle and caring to the person next to them or nearby, the next person I run into.
There is a certain thing that I don't think people expect out of others and that's the gender thing, it is expected and people play to that in the expectations of it being a meaningful encounter, if that is what they are aiming for.
But this takes the stereotype to the limits sometimes and backfires right away, for me if I sense this gendered thing, I go right after it in my head and wait for them to say or do some thing that caters to the stereotype.
I used to party with the best of them and was taken for who I was to them, and it was never discussed, but I had a much wilder time in my younger years, that fricken stereotype just wasn't something I cared about using towards others, the situations got very different than what most people took as normal for the time, it simply didn't matter to me and I always had a comeback if anyone tried to call me out.
I expected others to be this same way most of the time, to me if you held to your particular gender stereotype, then I would screw with it on a friendly basis and always get the conversation into one that opened eyes a bit, expanded on the possibility that there are in life, and always questioned everything even if it was something that was me.
The hippie kind of label got stuck on me because of this and there was a stereotype as well, but that also gave me a lot of leeway in how I could do things.
Sex drugs and rock n roll, dealing and riding bikes with the bad ones, I grew up with guns and never shied away from them, got damn good in fact, become a way of life there for awhile.
And at that same time I had a trans girlfriend and I knew the rules and kept it low profile, but I know others knew, they had to have and yet nobody said a thing, I don't think they knew what to say really.
It never mattered to me at all who she was born as, what mattered was that I saw her as female and despite that I could see the male in her facial features somewhat, I could see even more of it in a lot of people.
And there is that thing, it doesn't take a genius level of facial features to be able to see that there isn't all that much difference, but society has this idea of what we are all supposed to look like and those are the Ken and Barbies, the rest of us don't matter and aren't a part of the ones who judge by looks over everything.
None of this stuff mattered to me at all and it was in my own thinking that I must be a very odd person and that grew on me, a misfit and the only one kind of thing although I knew that wasn't true.
So it was a decade or so ago that I looked a little farther into this just to see and damn there a lot of people who identify as trans of one sort or another and even more than that who are hiding it, their choice, reasons.
So it's been a long list of things that I have taken that are mine own thinking and adjusted them to others to a point, and the ideas have been piling up for a long time, not me, everyone and it makes this easier on others.
But it also brings me back around to square one, do others like me exist in the same way as they just don't care who you are on the surface, but the potential of who you are inside.
The thing about wiring, I don't know, I'm wired like me and none of the this and that wiring stuff really take into account that I can be wired for everything, and that's pretty much where others have said I am over the years, just wired to take it all in and spit it back out in the way I want, not the way others think it should be, kinda a rough on the edges take on how to get from this year to the next.
It's always about being on my path and it has never changed, I don't know how that would even happen, I'm not your average person and I don't expect anyone else to be either.
There is a lot more to life than just the usual stuff of having to do it the right way, there is no right way other than the way you do it, there just isn't enough time to get it all in, we get cheated on the years it would take.
Make the best of it and when in doubt, knock'n out or just go on to the next thing, which is pretty much muy wiring, nothing much to do with sex or gender, those are all included in the wiring and it's too hard to just take it apart and then have to put it back together again, it solves nothing for me, ny need for therapy is for other reasons.I've been accused of being stone cold at times and I suppose I deserve it, but I am also accused of being selfless when it comes to helping others, and I suppose that is true sometimes, those are the things that being wired for mean something to me more than the nb wiring or what gender attributes I have.
It's a journey and the destination will get here soon enough, none of us got time to bleed, life sucks when you let it and when you don't, it's a marvelous thing to see.
The wiring for sex baffles me, isn't it all wired for sex? There are some things that people just don't want to try because they think it is wrong or immoral or whatever, so long as it stays within species, it's all good and it's all fun and some of it is better than the other, but that can change at anytime too, so if you don't know how you are wired for sex, go find out, I think we are wired for all of it, no gender differences that are there and the differences by birth sex, well improvise, the best thing there is about wiring, you can always improvise.

[Iona]

I'm not sure I know the answer to quite how my physicality works - what I have always been (felt, presented) is a mumbling, lumpen mass.

My voice is deep, but I speak quietly. I am rather tall, but I slouch. I dont feel quite at home with the attributes I have. Not that I don't like them, they just dont quite, always, exactly, feel like me. And sometimes I dont like them.

I have always behaved as I have - as I assume I'm supposed to, as I assume will appear 'normal'. But is that actually 'me' or just decades of conditioning?

So just recently I've tried to let myself move slightly more gracefully - delicately, at least.

I dont know if this is natural, if it feels or will feel natural, but I feel the need to give it a chance. I've been lumbering for so long I still assume that's me, even if it doesnt feel quite right.

In terms of my emotional responses, and internal qualities, so much does seem 'feminine'. Just today I was trying to gauge what in me tends to be more thought of as 'masculine'. I couldnt come up with much. Love of horror films? Annoyance and impatience when driving? Sterness with the dog? Moments of violent anger directly inwards (thankfully not for quite some time now)?

I like my internal attributes, but they do feel housed in such a strange body.

[Iona]

Hmm, I'm sure online psychological tests are absolutely the worst places to get definitive answers, but I was just looking to see if I could shine any light on my more masculine internal responses. It didnt help with that. The test I took landed me on 81% feminine, 0% masculine. Not sure about the other 19% - kind of in between I guess.

So, any opinions - online psychological tests, useful resources or not so much?

[Ativan Prescribed]

None of those tests are accurate or meaningful in the least, they come from and are assuming that you are one of the people they like to see as on a spectrum.
That is a made up thing from the cis binary matrix of the rules we are supposed to follow and they all do without questioning it at all, but they all question themselves always.
Stop considering that your sex is anything but that, your gender if you want to use that, is totally different.
The problems with it is that it is a part of the matrix rules, ying and yang, women and men, feminine and masculine, and they label them as one or the other, without any real proof.
There is no real gender, you have your birth sex and that just is an indication of how your parts work, gender is the thing they all depend on to be the rules they go by and they expect everyone to.
You don't have to play that silly game with them, they use it for themselves and because they think they are right because they invented the matrix to tell them they are right, they are right and have the final say.
But they don't, they can't explain gender anymore than they can explain why they are one or the other and if that is true for everyone, they are brainwashed by their own set of rules that they made up because they can't answer the question.
One of the best things you can do for yourself is to stop labeling things as one or the other, because almost all things just are and have no gender, so why try and say they are a part of one?
They call ships she, yet ships are mostly run by ment, so what kind of freudian thinking is that there? Besides, ships don't have a gender and there is nothing masculine or feminine with them, they are ships and nothing more.
That is just the rough example of that, stop and think before you label things as one or the other and even if they are a gender thing, there is no one or the other, the world isn't black and white and neither are the keepers of that cis binary the ones who decide, you decide, all on your own because it is what it is to you, they have it as if they gotr the things locked in when they don't.
Take for example that women are just as likely to be doing all of the men things and don't feel the need to explain themselves, they can do whatever they want and don't have to live that matrix crap that pretty much men invented and then told woman to obey their rules of gender and all other things in the universe, they can't claim it all for themselves and actually nobody can claim any of it at all.
But to label things all the time as masculine or feminine is just bowing down to their need of the matrix because they can't answer the question of what is gender and why are things labeled like they do, they don't know.
So when you find yourself thinking that something needs a gendered label, stop and ask yourself why.
If you feel that you are doing something that can be labeled as a gendered thing, ask yourself why.
All of that is just how you see it all and how you are, how you think and react, gender is a made up concept that the fashion industry and all sales are based on.
Fashion rules the world we live in, everyone looks at what everyone is wearing and judges people by it, they hardly use anything else to judge a person by.
The sales of almost everything is geared to woman or men, they even use that same idea on how they should make decisions on what to buy their kids and babies, as if they could give a shit, they are kids and babies and don't have time for the petty shit that the matrix makes all others grow up with and do what they have to, obey the rules or armagecon or something worse, trans and gay, and they are asking for equal rights, that is worse to the white men in this country than anything else, they can deal with the apocalypse, they will just go out and kill shit and destroy until it is all gone and then they can declared themselves the winners.
But in the meantime, just ask yourself if something really is gendered and if it needs to be one or the other and why can't it be both, because in the end, there is no gender and it all is both, all of us people.
NB is a strange concept to grab ahold of and I am not one who thinks that bigender is a real thing, that is an offshoot of the matrix rules of one or the other but if not, then it has to be something else and why not think in terms of it as being just two genders that don't really exist.
NB is a much easier way to think of yourself, instead of playing their game, play your own and be neither, if they insist that you have to be one or the other or something along the lines of that, defy it all and say you aren't having any of it today, that they can take the rules that has been nothing but trouble to you your entire life and they can shove it for at least one day, and then tomorrow and then the days after that.
Because once you grab ahold of the idea that they want to box you into a corner because they boxed themselves into a corner, you are on your way to finding the truths that are uniquely you.

[Iona]

Thanks for the response. I'm very much at the beginning of trying to understand quite who I am. I found bigender a helpful, though not definitive, way of looking at it, simply to know that it's ok to be where I am.

But what you say is so helpful to me - it reminds me I still do live by these totally arbitrary rules. Or rather I still feel like I'm breaking rules which dont exist.

I am wary of labels, but find it very hard to shake off. I just want to be me, and for the first time I'm feeling that I might be able to be.

I'm trying to see beyond the labels and rules but it's slow going - you may have to bear with me!

[Trinity]

I see myself as myself.

Its not a boy or girl thing, because I am physically not a boy or a girl. I am me.

Labeling is not quite right, because I like what I like.

But its complicated, and all I know is how my body works and what I like.

Who I fit in with and who I dont.

Clearly I am not a man.

But i am not a woman either.

Nonbinary fits, because I am niether male nor female.

Mental attributes are cis binary rules, assigning one to the other, men dont cry, women dont race...

Bullshit. Ive raced a woman, and she trophied that night.

Hot girl too, good driver, good tech. Southeast champ.

Rules and taboos.

When you are nb, anything goes. We are outside the binary, we live as we feel. Dtrip theconditioning and find ourselves.

Its a fluidity, a freedom.

[Ativan Prescribed]

It can take a while to get used to it and to finally feel like you are free from the matrix.
Everyone here has been doing this to one degree or another for a short time to a long time, maybe even a lifetime.
It all starts somewhere and you have started, so enjoy, it just gets better and better, and the happiness it can bring can be astounding at times.
You aren't breaking any rules if they are just made up rules for the sake of them having rules that they need to explain themselves to themselves, that is the matrix.
Lift the veil and see how far it goes and how it has held you back for all these years.

[Iona]

Thank you, both. I would like to be able to grasp that I dont have to be 'man' or 'woman'. Maybe I'm beginning to, but trying to fit into being 'man' and feeling incomplete I have been trying to embrace the 'woman' in me. Such an inadequate way to understand or communicate what's going on inside - and outside. I guess 'feminine' and 'masculine' play the same game.

I am struggling very much in expressing myself. I feel the need to blurt out all this crap that's been pent up for 40-odd years. I imagine a lot of it wont be helpful

[Trinity]

Mar 8, 2019 12:57:59 GMT 8 Iona said:

Thank you, Trinity. I would like to be able to grasp that I dont have to be 'man' or 'woman'. Maybe I'm beginning to, but trying to fit into being 'man' and feeling incomplete I have been trying to embrace the 'woman' in me. Such an inadequate way to understand or communicate what's going on inside - and outside. I guess 'feminine' and 'masculine' play the same game.

I am struggling very much in expressing myself. I feel the need to blurt out all this crap that's been pent up for 40-odd years. I imagine a lot of it wont be helpful

Blurting it out is how to learn.

And social condiyioning is tough to beat.

I knew i was nb since birth but i had no idea what it was, just knew i was different.

Thats good enough.

My history had a lot of abuse and severe bullying in it by the male agents of the matrix.

Now i am freed, and all their shaming is worthless.

They can have their circle jerk, I live my truth, they have no hold on me.

It was all an act based on fear.  Ditch the fear and the act disolves.

And if they bully, and shame, its on them, its the definition of ugly to me.

I refuse to kiss their hairy asses because i was set free of their cruelty.

You will learn to be free, to shed the fear.  To value the beauty of kindness to who you really are, by esteeming and seeing its value.

Its right here at your fingertips, breathe and be free to be real.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Much of the way we talk about things and the words and phrases we use are a collective thing.
Some of us have been doing this on forums for years and years.
It has very slowly came about to the point that we are teaching what we know because of all the work everyone put into just figuring it out.
It wasn't easy and I doubt some of us would have survived it if we hadn't talked as much as we did.
People come and go, but there is a core group here that collectively has as much and probably more than you can find in any one place elsewhere.
We didn't know or use the term NB when we started, it came about and we latched on to it and fought for the right to be called that.
Lots of things said by a lot of people over the years and no one person did as much as the group has done.
So we all have been there and there is nothing you can say that would seem out of line or even wrong, we made the most mistakes and that is where we try to help others now.
It's an ongoing thing, there will never be any real end to it, the ideas and the thinking still has a ways to go and I'm looking forward to it.
So you can gain a lot just by hanging around and like always there are no wrong questions, there certainly aren't any dumb ones.
Just read through the threads that interest you and there is always going to something that will bring you back to others from the past and the ones that are ongoing all the time.
The concepts you come across are the ones that tested out and stayed so we use them and take off from them all the time.
The forest came from elsewhere, but then we were there and took it to new levels so that it is ours now, for everyone to use a reference, the concept is sound, same with the matrix one.
That we found these ones that are helpful not only to us but to new people to get the ideas and the knowledge going and not becoming stale, they are our key ones that this revolves around mostly.

[Iona]

Mar 8, 2019 13:20:50 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

there is nothing you can say that would seem out of line or even wrong

That is very good to hear! That fear is what usually keeps me from saying anything. Thank you. I will hang around, read and think and probably make more comments I'll cringe about later!