Some scattered top-surgery thoughts

[Petri]

I think a lot about top surgery, Im going to meet a surgeon in about a month for consulting and info. Im very excited, and very worried. It's not something you want to do and then regret it. I photoshopped some pictures of me with a flat chest, just to see sortof how it would look, and my heart went and did little jumps of joy at the result. There's so many pieces of clothing that I avoid wearing just because my boobs are RIGHT THERE, like "hello! remember us? yeah we're still here allright!"

I guess I carry a lot of internalized transphobia, because I find myself thinking that it's a shame to remove my boobs because they look great on my body. "A shame for such nice tits" or something?? And another part of me is like BUT YOU HATE THEM, life would be so much easier (dysphoria-wise) without them, even if I'd get scars or my nipples maybe won't be in the perfect place. It'd still be so much better.

I find myself wanting to be so very pretty. I don't want to be pretty, I just want to be me. I don't want to care about what others think or how I look.

I just want to be comfortable in this temporary life-shell.

My family is not happy about the surgery. "Why can't you be happy just the way you are?? You don't have to change anything! Be yourself!" Im trying to be myself, finally! Im so much more happy now than before, all thanks to coming to terms with being non binary.

[EchelonHunt]

My family wasn't happy about me getting top surgery either. My sister tried to convince me that if I got super thin, they'd be as flat as the athlete runners. I knew very well for a fact that if I got down to that weight, I would be unhealthily thin. Plus the top surgeon said most of what was inside my breast was just breast tissue, very minimal fat. So I had already lost enough weight to get the fat cells down to the lowest amount possible in the breast region, the rest was genetics out of my control.

She also said, "Like I hate my nose but I'm not going to change that." That's your prerogative, I can't just "live with it". Going bra-shopping results in me having a mental breakdown, I have zero erotic sensation in the nipples but post-surgery, when I grab my chest, it feels SO, SO GOOD! I think that's gender euphoria. Plus, I no longer have to sweat profusely whenever I wear a binder in summer, those were the worst times.

After she's had two kids, I find it incredibly amusing that my sister is comfortable enough to talk to me about wanting to get breast implants since her boobs have lost their shape and she's unhappy with how they look.

You're not alone with your thoughts. I know Chase Ross felt the exact same way about his body before top surgery. He liked them, enjoyed playing with them and having them played with by others.

There's also nothing wrong with wanting to be pretty. Pretty doesn't need to involve breasts or be female.

[Petri]

I long for the day when I can go swimming in just swim-trunks or go on a walk with an open shirt.

The boobs take a lot of energy, you know? I don't want to think about them all the time but I do anyway because Im so uncomfortable with them being there. And still Im not absolutely sure that I'll do the surgery.

Did you hesitate?

[EchelonHunt]

I didn't really hesitate? I hated them from the day they grew in puberty and I knew they just had to go, one way or another. Sorry, I'm not much help in that department! I was emotionally manipulated by my then-abusive-partner to delay top surgery in order to meet my then-abusive-partner in Detroit, which made me even more sure that I needed top surgery, if that helps any.

What doubts/hesitation are you having about the surgery?

Part of me wanted A-cups so I could have the choice of appearing female one day, male the next. I kinda got that anyway because the surgeon wanted to give me "pecs" but I was firm that I wanted a flat chest, as "pecs" wouldn't look good because I have an overweight body, not a body builder body. I woke up with "pecs" and while I was happy that the boobs were gone and I was flat but I wasn't overly thrilled like many transguys were post-op because as recovery went on, I noticed I had A-cup "pecs" that jiggled when I walked and OMG, it made me feel SO insecure. It was like I swapped DD breasts for A-cups.

I eventually developed dysphoria over A-cups "pecs", I would rarely go shirtless and this depressed me because the whole point of surgery was to be comfortable in my skin, walk around shirtless proudly but it felt like top surgery did the opposite of that. I eventually got a revision done with another surgeon (since my original surgeon refused to see anything wrong with his results, he thought it was "perfect"), he explained to me that my original surgeon left a ton of what he called, "feminine fat" left over in my chest that makes my chest look feminine rather than masculine. I was horrified, my original surgeon just basically did a lazy half-assed job on me. The new surgeon, bless him, he corrected all the mistakes, fixed the "cleavage" fat area that the surgeon left behind, did nipple reconstruction (since floating graft nipples end up being flat and I needed my nipples to protrude out as thats how I see them in my head.) I woke up from that revision surgery and when they showed the results, I wanted to cry. I was happy, THIS was the result I was meant to have gotten the first time!

I know the feeling all too well, boobs were a huge source of dysphoria because they were THERE all the time. I loathed washing them in the shower, I had to close my eyes and quickly do it. Now I love washing my chest in the shower, it's the first thing I look forward to washing.

[Petri]

It's a scary thing, surgery. I've never done anything like that, I've got no broken bones, not even stitches. I don't know why I even hesitate, it's not a difficult choice. I don't want my boobs, they don't feel like a part of me or my body. I guess I'm just afraid. Scared of the surgery. Scared of the recovery period. Scared I'm not going to like the result. I'm a control-freak. I know what I have but I don't know what I'll get.

[Von]

As my date draws nearish I'm scared too. Mostly of the recovery, but also with the results. and above all my partner's reaction. I keep having this reoccurring nightmare that he either doesn't bring me to my surgery, or dumps me once I'm healed.

I think it's natural to be nervous, especially if you haven't had a procedure before of any kind.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Jul 2, 2018 21:22:23 GMT 8 Von said:

As my date draws nearish I'm scared too. Mostly of the recovery, but also with the results. and above all my partner's reaction. I keep having this reoccurring nightmare that he either doesn't bring me to my surgery, or dumps me once I'm healed.

I think it's natural to be nervous, especially if you haven't had a procedure before of any kind.

I read a thing today that is basically just what I have found to be true, not that things don't go wrong, but it's a better way to push through those things.
The anxiety only gets worse the longer you hold on to it, it takes down everything, depression gets worse, the fear eats away at you.
Easy to say, but it's hard to do until you do and succeed, it might take a few times or even more.
The fears we have are usually not all that bad once you sit down and face them squarely, step past them.
The simplest of them can feel like a huge battle was won once we come to terms with them, yet most of them are minor, anxiety turned into fear.
I can relate to these kinds of things, recently broke my arm up at the shoulder into four pieces, shards of bone cut me up inside, the blood turned my arm black for over a week, then slowly went away, had to wait for a month without anything except a sling, a cast would do no better, I tensed up on it all the time, more pain.
Went back to the Dr and he said I had to have a plate put in, it wasn't healing right, so the procedure was to open my arm up with a 7" slice right by a major nerve and an artery on the other side, peel it back and break it again, then reset it and use a plate and a handful of screws. I about puked.
It had to be scheduled of course and I had days to think about it, anxiety maxing out, letting the dear roll in with some unnecessary stuff that wasn't going to happen, the what ifs.
Second day of thinking it through and I just pushed past it, told myself to look forward to it, sure it's going to hurt all over again, but at least it will be fixed.
I had no choice really, I could have said no and had problems forever, and I still do but very minor and far between.
Once I had it straight in my head how it was going to work, the day came and I walked in and was ready to go, no problem.
It hurt like a mother from that, worse than it did to begin with, a nerve somehow got pinched in my neck from it, didn't know that was the pain, the worst I had ever felt and I'm the king of pain, can't remember all of the major ones, to many, but in the end, it worked out and as far as the surgery itself, I woke up and they said I was good to go, which I was until the painkiller they used wor off, but I had a bottle of percocet to tide me over, but it all reminded me that just like I had learned at an early age, fear is bogus, you step right up to it, you walk past it, in the end it has nothing on you, it's made up. Even if there is danger, you have to step up to it to get past it.
I don't really know how it works enough to say a lot, but it isn't hard to figure out and to do, but it takes doing it so that it doesn't have control over you.
Something like that, fear and the anxiety it comes from, should never have control, it does and you have to push it away, it's the result of hesitating and letting it get the best of you, just like a good fight, you step into it, always. Grab it by the balls and force it to let you by.
It really isn't a matter of it's easy to say, it's a matter of stepping up to it which can be hard, but are you going to let it take control over your life?
You'll do fine and it will be a breeze, if anything goes wrong, it won't be the end of it, you can always find the way, you step forward and step up to it.
You're tougher than it is and you can do it and make sure it is all going to take place, step forward and take control.

[EchelonHunt]

Petri & Von,

I'll share my experience, in hopes that it helps you both out.

My first surgery was cochlear implantation which was in 2014. If I hadn't had that, top surgery would've been my first surgery.

I didn't experience much fear because I told myself that this procedure was going to improve my hearing and that this was a positive step forward. My hearing in my left side had deteriorated so much that even the most high-powered hearing aids wouldn't do anything for it, the logical next step would be a cochlear implant.

From there on, I had...

- Top surgery (2015)
- Hysterectomy (2016)
- Chest revision by original surgeon (2016)
- Chest revision by different surgeon (2017)

After having these procedures, I actually look forward to hospital procedures because it's so interesting how intricate it all is and it's exciting because each surgery, allowed me to get one step closer to being more comfortable in my body, it's helping alleviate dysphoria.

And my transition isn't over yet either, I still have at least 3 more surgeries (3 stages for RFF Phalloplasty in the UK, hopefully) and that's not including any possibly revision surgeries. The first stage of RFF Phallo is VERY intense recovery-wise and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't scared/anxious about that.

One thing I noticed, is when patients are waiting in the pre-op room to be rolled into the OR room, I was alone when I was waiting for 2nd chest revision surgery, there was a girl across from me who was bawling her eyes out, terrified of the coming surgery and her mom was consoling her. If you can, have a family member or a supportive partner there to keep your company, reassure you and distract your mind from anxiety until it's time to go. I realised I would've liked my mom to be beside me at that moment, it just would've been nice to have someone familiar there and say goodbye to. There were some times where I was glad my parents weren't there, like the pre-op room prior to hysterectomy, I got extremely emotional because it'd been literally a decade since I expressed my wish to my GP to have a hysterectomy and I was so relieved that those organs were going to be gone forever.

Just know that you are in the hands of a professional. They are qualified and trained to do their jobs. But I completely understand having that fear of the unknown, giving up all sense of control and placing your trust and body in the surgeon's hands.

It's a very vulnerable place to be in, but it's okay. Any worries and anxiety you have is a normal reaction to surgery. We are here for you and we'll help you through it.

[coco]

wow... this is so weird guys.. I just woke up, go on here and wanted to write about EXACTLY this topic, almost literally, and how you guys think about this.

[coco]

I mean, I could argue with myself that it's just the body and not so important.. but.. see the way men always look at your boobs - I find it so - I cannot even find a word for this feeling. Disgust? No, it's disrespect? I think it distracts from who I am as a person? Sometimes, I would hold my breasts in my hands and wish they were not there.
How would I feel when they actually are gone? My best female asset, lol. But it has not brought me any joy and benefit lol so why not remove them altogether and become more myself?
Will there be some scares? Or will they do it nicely, like a man's breast?

[Trinity]

May 22, 2019 8:32:10 GMT 8 coco said:

I mean, I could argue with myself that it's just the body and not so important.. but.. see the way men always look at your boobs - I find it so - I cannot even find a word for this feeling. Disgust? No, it's disrespect? I think it distracts from who I am as a person? Sometimes, I would hold my breasts in my hands and wish they were not there.
How would I feel when they actually are gone? My best female asset, lol. But it has not brought me any joy and benefit lol so why not remove them altogether and become more myself?
Will there be some scares? Or will they do it nicely, like a man's breast?

Our top surgery folks haven't really been on, I wanted to respond so you know we are seeing you

My head is of course 180 degrees from here.

Anyone got something on top surgery to share?

Big decision.  Hard for me to get my head around, because of my dysphoria in the other direction.

I know folk that had it and are happy about it, and a couple  that are not.   So, its a heavy thing.

Seems easier for us that go the other way and grow  them.

[coco]

Thank you, Trinity. I appreciate your comment. Yes, it seems so controversial, and strange. We are all different, and I was thinking yesterday, where this wish to be different comes from. How come that, even at a later stage in one's age, we would like to change the way we look. Why can we not accept the body we are in, and have been given? I was thinking about babies born with down syndrome.. they cannot just change their body? As their whole being is different.
Is there an underlying frustration I experienced with men, what fuels my wish to change? But then, I remember having manly traits all my life, and it's not just from the past months. I think I do believe in non-binary. I'm usually attracted to more feminin males (gays as well) and manly men scare me, tbh.

[Trinity]

May 23, 2019 11:55:06 GMT 8 coco said:

Thank you, Trinity. I appreciate your comment. Yes, it seems so controversial, and strange. We are all different, and I was thinking yesterday, where this wish to be different comes from. How come that, even at a later stage in one's age, we would like to change the way we look. Why can we not accept the body we are in, and have been given? I was thinking about babies born with down syndrome.. they cannot just change their body? As their whole being is different.
Is there an underlying frustration I experienced with men, what fuels my wish to change? But then, I remember having manly traits all my life, and it's not just from the past months. I think I do believe in non-binary. I'm usually attracted to more feminin males (gays as well) and manly men scare me, tbh.

They scare me too, and with good reason.

The drive to transition is an intense one, in me.  I HAD to transition, it wasn't just something on a whim or anything like that (not saying yours is either).  But it got to the point, at 55 years old, that I was willing to risk absolutely everything and go on hormones.  Dysphoria shattered me.

And transition is imperfect, my hips are what they are, the bone structure, my shoulders, my face (though  that can be altered).  But the hormones helped, growing a pair helped too, quite a lot actually.  I have no regrets except that I did not do it earlier.

Top surgery by its nature baffles me, yet I know it brings relief to quite a few, and some do regret and try to grow them back, just as some trans women transitions are also regretted.  Its not a large percentage, and the binary transition can really trainwreck a life if its not the right choice.

I believe in nonbinary because I AM nonbinary and I know I am real.  LOL.

But what fuels the wish to change?

Thats a thread topic honey, and I'm gunna throw it up there - or even better, why don't you?  Could you do that, launch a thread on "What fuels your wish to change"?  Its afabulous topic and question.

Hugs

[Ativan Prescribed]

The wish to change yourself both mentally and physically is a constant process that goes on all your life.
I'm old, and I'd give anything to have my younger self back again, mentally and physically, to be in my prime would be the goal.
But look at the industry of changing a person body, diets to workouts to implants to having things removed, it isn't a fring industry.
It's on the fringe of the fashion industry that says we have to have this latest because it is the very latest and to not have it is to be scorned by all beauty queens forever, banished to the sidelines of life.
Clothes are just clothes and there really isn't even anything new, trust me, been there and done that and almost all of it is rehashed stuff from decades ago, colors and styles, and pants are pants no matter how hoard you try to say they just aren't.
Makeup is huge, the world turns on these things or so the people spending all their money on it think, I don't think it does at all, in fact the world would be better off if we used that money for better things.
But the urge to change ourselves comes from the inner workings that we always want to excel, or it comes from the fact that kids can be cruel and we grew up having to put up with the impression that we are somehow flawed.
This is a lot of what the Matrix has done to people, even the agents of the Matrix are susceptible to it, everyone gets ahead by stepping on everyone, instead of always lending a hand and being open minded about others, we tend to flame them to make ourselves look better.
So the changes we want come from a few different things and they can feel inbred, but the truth is that we are taught to dislike ourselves and we have to have those changes, take away the bully shit and it becomes more straight forward.
The desire to strive to be simply better by diet and exercise is enough for most people and take away the wasted time catching up to the bully crap and we would have plenty of time.
But just like people always want to see what is over the horizon, we want to be different simply to see how that is, we might have things that we want to change, but don't have the time for, and again it is a matter of what is more important.
I'll tell you what, there is something to it to be physically fit and more, our abilities in other things change for the better, instead of working harder to pay for the same thing, take the time to just get fit and be done with it, never stop.
I have clogged arteries going to my legs and that is devastating for me, lose my legs and I might as well quit it all, but I'm getting them fixed in a week and I should be good until the clogged ones in my heart kill me.
There was a point where I stopped getting exercise and now it is killing me slowly, b and the turn around isn't going to be easy at all, but I don't care about the Matrix shit, I just want to be healthy again, I feel better and think better, life is better.
So wanting to change is always going to be around, if it isn't one thing it's another, and if its because of the cruelty of childhood, then forget about it, let them waste their lives on that crap, change for the reasons that you want to just be better to you, not to be acceptable by people who could give a shit, strive to make the changes that are going to make you happy and if lopping them off sounds good to you and you have your reasons, then do it and don't pay attention to others and what they have to say about it, they are yours to do with as you please.
But body alterations are so common and they are getting cheaper all the time and the moral issues are bunk, there is no moral issue, there are only people who can't so they say you can't, the unholy unchristian types who think your business is theirs.
Don't let people sway you from being the person you want to be, change anything you want so long as it is really what you want, gotta be careful with some things, they are pretty permanent at least they are now.
With the ability to reproduce human parts with a 3D printer, it is just going to get better and better so long as the morality finger wavers stay out of it and take care on their own and not everyone else, you know they think the world would just be perfect if only it could be exactly like they think it is supposed to be and they use false gods to say what it is supposed to be, but guess what... I think the world would be the perfect place if things just were the way I want them and so do you and everyone, so the people that are brought to you by the letter M for morality are just wasting time because they are the ones who make it so hard on everyone else, it isn't like they are some kind of majority, they are just inflated egos with inflated heads who want your money because you don't spend it the way they think you should.
Yep, a long round about way to get to the point of why do we want to change, we want to change everything, the only difference between anyone is what they want to change, and so long as it isn't hurting anyone else, them so be it.
I grew up in the 60's, and if you think that the times are the same or that now is better, it isn't, the world was rocking on change and it was happening, it is the most influential decade in our history, we redefined the world and the way it works.
And it was all based on changing the things we could and we didn't let the naysayers get in our way, we just gave them a joint and told them to peace out while we actually changed things for the better, something they couldn't do.

[coco]

Hello Ativan Thank you for your huge parttaking here. Hope all will go well with the surg and you can enjoy life even more again. True that, a healthy life is the fundament of enjoyment and everything else (like, change) is second. I should be thankful and yet, we are always in transition and want something we don't have? Going to ponder about this today. Thanks again