Placing Values on Emoitions

[Ativan Prescribed]

About placing values on emotions...


When we do that, if we spend to much of the values we place on certain emotions, we, in effect can become emotionally bankrupt.
Which is ridiculous if you think about it.
It is in placing more value on one emotion over another.
We either go all out spending the higher values on one, or we neglect to realize there is still the values left from the others.
Either way, the problem isn't the emotions, it is the value's that we as individuals place on them ourselves.
When others seem to still have value left in theirs, we tend to think of ours as being spent by simply using them.
Emotional values are something that we do to categorize various emotions, like having a top ten list so to speak.

In doing so, we lessen the apparent values of other emotions and neglect them or see them as having a negative value and tend to call them negative emotions.
Simply because we have used a system of values to judge emotions.

Take away those values and just look at the emotions for what they are, without attaching this system of values to them.
It is the values that change and we perceive having spent those values, which in turn puts priorities on one emotion over another.
Without this system of values, emotions become what they are.
There is never a lack of any emotion, there can be, however the perception that we have spent all of one, because we spent the value.
The problem is never the emotions, it is in the values.

We then have an emotional famine, simply because we placed unrealistic values on one emotion over another.
We spend the value, the emotions never change, just the perception that they have, because of the values we have placed on them.

A person can never be emotionally bankrupt if they don't use a system of values that determine an emotions worth.
You can spend and spend, but the emotions remain as they are, because there isn't such a thing as them having a value.
That value system is the frailty of humanity showing itself.
When in fact, there is no frailty, only a system that that has frailty built into it.

People see my depression as something bad, because they see me as having spent some value somewhere and all I am left with is depression as a result.
This isn't true, my depression is a state of mind, of emotions that is introspective in nature, or looking at the world with a different set of emotions.
The emotions that are not in use, are not spent, they are simply not being used.
Depression is a state of mind, it is not emotionally spent or the black hole of emotions.
It's something that I do with my emotions, I take drugs to counter the effects of this twisting of emotions that is uncomfortable and makes it hard to move forward like I think I should.
But it isn't because those other emotions are gone or spent or used up, it is simply that they are not being used in an efficient enough way for me to move forward like I would like to.

The sense of normal comes from that value system.
People work hard at keeping the value up for a set of emotions that they have an agreement with others as to the set amount of value one has with them to be considered normal.
If there wasn't this value system, people would stop looking down on disorders as if those people are bankrupt and therefore devoid of the same sets of emotions as they have.
The truth is, is that they have no right to judge these imaginary values of another person, just because they use an imaginary system of values for theirs.

That's what's going on with the forum, is that this imaginary system of abnormal values has been upset, and they are having doubts about not only their emotional values, but of others as well.
Placing values on emotions places some of them at the front of the line, while leaving other ones behind.
If they use those ones they deemed important because of that false sense of value, they don't see the other emotions, because they feel their apparent worth isn't there, so they feel emotionally spent.
Which you cannot do without that sense of values that places some as more important than others.
They all have their uses, and people tend to leave a lot of them on the back shelf, because they don't see them because of their relative worthlessness to them.
They are more concerned about getting the value of the ones they placed up front back, once they feel they have spent to much of that value.
Take away that idea that they have this kind of power over you because of a system of value and you no longer have less of any of them.

They are not a quantity that a value can be place on, they are a quality, and each one has it's own unique use.
When used in sets, we set the quality of our emotions depending on the current situation of life and live in the now, rather than being upset that we spent this imaginary value as if they are a quantity to be used up and then replenished.

That's simply not true and is an illusion that is perpetrated by those who have a problem dealing with their egos or self, in relationship to anothers.
They use emotions as if they are a competition and have to use them wisely so they are not all spent up and could be perceived as being in a 'negative' or deficit filled set of emotions, and because of this they set the bar or standard as to how much emotional values are necessary to be deemed 'normal'.

Take away that system of values and the problems that come from them disappear as well.

It isn't an emotional issue that the forum is having, it is a issue of values that each person has assigned to those emotions.
None are more, none are lacking.
It is only the values that are, more or less, in peoples perceptions.
Emotions are a quality, not a quantity. And it's in that idea that they are a quantity that is a problem.
Some people think others are using to much of that quantity of certain emotions and they don't think it is fair, because it changes the values of their quantity of emotions.

Once they settle down and become more reasonable, they will treat emotions more like a quality, rather than a quantity.
Some people have the idea that others have used to much of a quantity of 'perceived as negative' or deficit emotions, so they have to spend their positive emotion to counter the effect that simply isn't there, because of using them as a quantity, rather than the quality that they really are.

The problems that society places on everything, because of the rise of the barter system, which is simplified by using money, so therefore, everything has its value.
Emotions don't, it is a perceived notion, and that's why people are bent out of shape, it's because of others, that they feel like their emotional values are being used up or the value of them has changed because of others.

It's an unrealistic way of going through life, but it is deeply ingrained into our psyche, to such an extent, that my depression falls below the bar they have set.
But by not subscribing to such ingrained bullshit as that value system, I am simply using a set of emotions in a way that I want to change, and can through the use of drugs and therapy by talking about them.
When I talk to my therapist about such things, I tell them to stop placing these preconceived notions of value on how I am feeling and ask them instead, to help me find the reason(s) i am using them in a set that is uncomfortable to me, but has nothing to do with others.
As it is not theirs to make a value judgement on them to begin with.

I use my depression as an example, but what has happened in the forum, is value judgments of others emotions, based on the values they have placed on theirs.
It isn't an emotional problem that is going on, it is a problem with these perceived values and their apparent worth.
Stop using value as a way to gauge emotions and instead gauge their quality instead, it makes it one helluva lot easier to understand others when you do this.
While this value system is heavily ingrained into our psyche, it is to anyone's advantage to let go of that and see the emotions for their qualities and not their apparent value.
Emotions are a quality, and there is never a lack of any of them. If there is never a lack, then valuing them as a quantity fails as a way to understand not only yours, but others as well.
Ativan

[Deleted]

I think we in this community seem to place more value on emotions that at times tend to overrule intellect and common sense. I can make this statement as the pragmatic type-A personality that I am knowing that it sets me apart from the majority here in many respects as someone who is inherently by definition not a nice person. I lack patience with others and their emotional and hormonally generated commentaries and responses no matter how hard I try, I have an extremely short fuze for BS. Internally I question other people's motives for everything they say and take nothing on face value, my BS detector is buzzing quite frequently even here so I have to work at being kinder, gentler and more understanding than many who just continually seem to gush affection for everyone and who go to tears over some things that I could care less about. Being patient with others is a constant work in progress for me, I was tough on my kids and tough on the men I had to deal with all my life and so as a non binary trans person I have to confess that it's not easy being me. 

Good commentary Ativan, it got me thinking of this stuff and it's good to get it out there.

[Ativan Prescribed]

It isn't easy for for me either. It's a very hard thing to shake off, this sense of value that we use all to often.
It's a difficult thing most of the time, to change our perspectives. We find ones that work and then tend to use them too much.
Everyone does it, but like you say, a person has to work at it. It is worth the effort, as you already know.

[Deleted]

Really good commentary Ativan. Depression isn't a bad thing. You can use it. Some may use it as being a type of daredevil. Some like me may use it in relaying it on the guitar as a more bluesy sound or I just don't give a fuck sound which usually comes out hard and heavy depending on if I am pissed or feeling down. Edgar Allan Poe was one that took the darkness form inside and let it out in the way of words. So yeah for me depression hurts. But that hurt I can use. That anguish I can use. It still hurts. But taking a negative emotion and turning it into something positive. Well I would say it is a good thing but it really sux to hurt so much so often. I use it but it still sux.

[Deleted]

Mar 26, 2015 2:31:55 GMT 8 Shan said:

I think we in this community seem to place more value on emotions that at times tend to overrule intellect and common sense. I can make this statement as the pragmatic type-A personality that I am knowing that it sets me apart from the majority here in many respects as someone who is inherently by definition not a nice person. I lack patience with others and their emotional and hormonally generated commentaries and responses no matter how hard I try, I have an extremely short fuze for BS. Internally I question other people's motives for everything they say and take nothing on face value, my BS detector is buzzing quite frequently even here so I have to work at being kinder, gentler and more understanding than many who just continually seem to gush affection for everyone and who go to tears over some things that I could care less about. Being patient with others is a constant work in progress for me, I was tough on my kids and tough on the men I had to deal with all my life and so as a non binary trans person I have to confess that it's not easy being me. 

Good commentary Ativan, it got me thinking of this stuff and it's good to get it out there.

Really Shan? Ya don't say? I will give you this and that is that you are a type A personality. But you know what? What you have to say is no less important than what anyone else has to say. Be a Bitch or Bastard, you choose the title hon because sometimes we need to hear the god awful ugly truth. I think you lend a certain attitude to this place that I can't. That not too many others can. Oh we can argue and butt heads but in the end we are family and I love and respect you more than some of my own actual family members.

I don't think it's easy being any of us. I don't believe it is easy being human period. But if you are confident in yourself. That is who you are and be proud of it. Forget about all the BS shortcomings that you said about yourself. Be you. If you want to be a tough SOB then be a tough SOB. I wouldn't think of you any other way. Piss me off. I won't care. I piss you off, I won't care. In the end if we can argue and still go have a drink together and still be friends, isn't that more magical than anything else from a Disney movie?

[Deleted]

Mar 26, 2015 6:19:20 GMT 8 @jamie said:

Mar 26, 2015 2:31:55 GMT 8 Shan said:

I think we in this community seem to place more value on emotions that at times tend to overrule intellect and common sense. I can make this statement as the pragmatic type-A personality that I am knowing that it sets me apart from the majority here in many respects as someone who is inherently by definition not a nice person. I lack patience with others and their emotional and hormonally generated commentaries and responses no matter how hard I try, I have an extremely short fuze for BS. Internally I question other people's motives for everything they say and take nothing on face value, my BS detector is buzzing quite frequently even here so I have to work at being kinder, gentler and more understanding than many who just continually seem to gush affection for everyone and who go to tears over some things that I could care less about. Being patient with others is a constant work in progress for me, I was tough on my kids and tough on the men I had to deal with all my life and so as a non binary trans person I have to confess that it's not easy being me. 

Good commentary Ativan, it got me thinking of this stuff and it's good to get it out there.

Really Shan? Ya don't say? I will give you this and that is that you are a type A personality. But you know what? What you have to say is no less important than what anyone else has to say. Be a Bitch or Bastard, you choose the title hon because sometimes we need to hear the god awful ugly truth. I think you lend a certain attitude to this place that I can't. That not too many others can. Oh we can argue and butt heads but in the end we are family and I love and respect you more than some of my own actual family members.

I don't think it's easy being any of us. I don't believe it is easy being human period. But if you are confident in yourself. That is who you are and be proud of it. Forget about all the BS shortcomings that you said about yourself. Be you. If you want to be a tough SOB then be a tough SOB. I wouldn't think of you any other way. Piss me off. I won't care. I piss you off, I won't care. In the end if we can argue and still go have a drink together and still be friends, isn't that more magical than anything else from a Disney movie?

Thanks Jamie that's a two way street sister! btw I make a mean Cosmopolitan or if you're into manly drinks I do Manhattans that will knock your dick in the dirt if you have one. 

[Ayla]

Mar 26, 2015 1:56:53 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

About placing values on emotions...


When we do that, if we spend to much of the values we place on certain emotions, we, in effect can become emotionally bankrupt.....

....That's simply not true and is an illusion that is perpetrated by those who have a problem dealing with their egos or self, in relationship to anothers.
They use emotions as if they are a competition and have to use them wisely so they are not all spent up and could be perceived as being in a 'negative' or deficit filled set of emotions, and because of this they set the bar or standard as to how much emotional values are necessary to be deemed 'normal'.

Take away that system of values and the problems that come from them disappear as well.

It isn't an emotional issue that the forum is having, it is a issue of values that each person has assigned to those emotions.
None are more, none are lacking.
It is only the values that are, more or less, in peoples perceptions.
Emotions are a quality, not a quantity. And it's in that idea that they are a quantity that is a problem.
Some people think others are using to much of that quantity of certain emotions and they don't think it is fair, because it changes the values of their quantity of emotions.

Once they settle down and become more reasonable, they will treat emotions more like a quality, rather than a quantity.
Some people have the idea that others have used to much of a quantity of 'perceived as negative' or deficit emotions, so they have to spend their positive emotion to counter the effect that simply isn't there, because of using them as a quantity, rather than the quality that they really are.

The problems that society places on everything, because of the rise of the barter system, which is simplified by using money, so therefore, everything has its value.
Emotions don't, it is a perceived notion, and that's why people are bent out of shape, it's because of others, that they feel like their emotional values are being used up or the value of them has changed because of others.

It's an unrealistic way of going through life, but it is deeply ingrained into our psyche, to such an extent, that my depression falls below the bar they have set.
But by not subscribing to such ingrained bullshit as that value system, I am simply using a set of emotions in a way that I want to change, and can through the use of drugs and therapy by talking about them.
When I talk to my therapist about such things, I tell them to stop placing these preconceived notions of value on how I am feeling and ask them instead, to help me find the reason(s) i am using them in a set that is uncomfortable to me, but has nothing to do with others.
As it is not theirs to make a value judgement on them to begin with.

I use my depression as an example, but what has happened in the forum, is value judgments of others emotions, based on the values they have placed on theirs.
It isn't an emotional problem that is going on, it is a problem with these perceived values and their apparent worth.
Stop using value as a way to gauge emotions and instead gauge their quality instead, it makes it one helluva lot easier to understand others when you do this.
While this value system is heavily ingrained into our psyche, it is to anyone's advantage to let go of that and see the emotions for their qualities and not their apparent value.
Emotions are a quality, and there is never a lack of any of them. If there is never a lack, then valuing them as a quantity fails as a way to understand not only yours, but others as well.
Ativan

Ativan

I think that the forum, and our family, is under stress because folk are not respecting each other.  It is a fact that humans are social beings,  it is also generally accepted that one should aspire to be values driven.  In this forum many folk with different identities, from different cultures, demographics, experience and narrative have come together to provide support to each other in a mutually respectful environment.  This implies respect for ideas, feelings and experience.  It does not support invalidation, personal attacks, or other action which may be seen to cause or to sustain another's discomfort.

As a result I don't see the current discomfort of some, as merely a clash of egos or disagreement as to the 'worth' of perceived values, and certainly don't regard this argument as justification for a mea culpa thus permitting the conscious or casual disrespect of others, their ideas or their feelings.

In terms of specifics:

- the Queens Budget has clearly, and is clearly causing a significant number of our community significant distress.  This has led to some leaving or choosing to no longer participate until this thread is shut down or dies from a general lack of interest.  As a self moderated forum I think Jacey is right in letting our community sort this out.  However is it okay to continue to run this thread when the hurt we have suffered is now long gone, and it distracts attention and harms our culture given its caustic and corrosive carping on something that is best left buried?  There is no right and no wrong answer, but if we are truly values driven and we preach respect and support, is this thread really helpful?  I hurt, I feel real loss when a significant contributor has to withdraw given our collective inability to move on.  The question is, will we define ourselves by the past or by our collective dreams and aspiration?

- calling out another member or questioning their motives on forum or via caucus is not respectful.  If we have an issue with someone, take it up with them directly.  If still uncomfortable, then it is probably in most folk's interest to participate on different threads and just agree to disagree.  This is ok as we are linked by the trans experience, not by blood, religion, political ideology, nationality etc.

In short, my comments are not directed at any specific individual.  However we say that we are values driven and we have talked respect and support ever since this site was first established.  I have seen many corporates crumble from inattention to culture, values and behaviour,  my earnest hope is that we do not throw away the guiding principles of respect and support because we reduce discomfort to a mere clash of ego rather than discomfort caused by behaviors which run counter to our founding principles and values.

Safe travels

Aisla

[Ativan Prescribed]

I think you missed the point here. It is generally accepted that one should aspire to quality values and not the quantity values that some aspire to.

And while I can see your concerns about the queens budget, that topic was gone before I wrote this.
I think that bring it back up by twisting my words around to favor your personal judgment of it is exactly what you are complaining about in the first place.
I think your suggestion of of taking up an issue directly is good.
Again twisting my words around to further your personal agenda and making an accusation that I am calling out another member, seems to be what you have just done.
So I do think your suggestion is a good one.
In short, I think your comment is very directed. And the definition of value that you are using is not the same as in the topic above.
I suggest rereading it a little closer after your done reading the rest of the forum before making a judgment call about something that is no longer here.

[Ayla]

Ativan

If I have misread your post then I apologise My intent is to support and to sustain a strong community

Be well

Aisla

[Deleted]

Ahhh, emotions.

And I personally am one of the wildest there, a constant roller coaster ride. Many times accused of destroying with them.

Quantity, quality, results?

They are high powered octane, racing fuel, nitrous sometimes, in motors designed for ....?....

Put two side by side, rev them up with no where to go, and ... boom. Or a wreck.

Channel all that power and it'll take off, wheels skimming the ground, cars that skip across the pavement, avoiding the wall. Bumping and jostling other cars, leaving donuts on their sides, a bent peice here, there, all in the exhilaration of the race.

Nobody wants to take the other guy out, not unless they lose their cool, and get black flagged to the back.

But they will nudge wont they, move them out of the way if they have to.

Emotions and fire tongues. Fire because it ignites the emotions and the passions of the heart.

I speak from deep emotions. We all care deeply about the forum and about each other. How another responds to our words and imagery and emotions, isnt that up to them? Collectively here. How we choose to respond ourselves, what we do as a result.

Isnt the thread really about vulnerability, responsibility, needs, understanding the power of the tongue and heart, and also understanding that we have our own responsibility in how we respond to what we hear?

Trust me, the last couple weeks I am emotional. Have not held my tongue either. Just careful with it....

Values and emotions? My core values create my emotions, or my emotions create my core values.... huh?

That is worthy of pondering thought.

Words have power. I was written up for saying "dear" at work to someone that decided I was a pervert. That individual will not acknowledge me at work now. What does that have to do with me?

Their problem, not mine. Everyone else is fine with it, but he singles out those of like mind and feeds his hate and anger with more hate and anger from another person. I am not saying we do that. But emotions, whether love or anger or hate, they will attract each other, and fuel each other, and go sometimes out of control until some outside force corrects it, or it burns itself out.

How people get along together, well, that is the human condition is it not?

How the people of trans get together driven by the cis world and its violence, is another thing altogether.

What a surprise that we feel so deeply. React. Talk from wells of pain and anger and love and sex and joy. Oh yes, we have deep wells inside us.

Emotions once were described to me as a wind. They hit us, pass through us, leave us, if we dont resist them. Catch the wind, repress the feelings, and the boat tips over.

Fear is the corrosive element, and fear is in play. It dominates, it eats, destroys, colors words, affects behavior, creates the need to fight or to fly. It is good, it is bad, it is fear. Its there because it needs to be there.

When we fear damage to relationships, or to our support systems, or to loved ones, we will react strongly. Protective instinct fires up. Based on emotions. Based on, what?

Some on the board are very fragile and sensitive, others, strong and somewhat gruff. Both need each other to balance it out.

Both rely heavily on each other.

Freedom to speak out is so important. Understanding the effect of words as they are processed through the mental filters and experiences and understandings of the listeners is also important. Words can tear down or build up, they can heal, or rip open old wounds or create new ones. They are words, and words are the forum. Images and emotion, people on keyboards, speaking their hearts, hoping to be understood, guided, valued, held, loved. Unconditional love drives this forum. That is emotion and a value.

So easy to upset others. So easy to touch their hearts, wide open and vulnerable on a forum like this one. Sometimes a rough hand is needed, sometimes gentle.

But we are responsible for the words we say, the emotions we have, the effects we have on all. And they are responsible for how they handle it. We can choose to interfere, or not. Stand aside, let it work itself out. It takes great wisdom to know what to do there, and even so, many things are best left alone, or unsaid.

And other things need saying.

We are trans people. We have not had a fun time my dear ones, we have been through hell and hell sometimes hunts us down. But as i look at this forum and the people on it, one thing always remains for me.

This is where I grew up, this is where my friends and loved ones live. This is my home. My dad yelled at my mom every day. It is still my home, and they are better, and dad takes care of mom. Dad loves mom and mom loves Dad, they remain together. But dad has a problem with anger when he is drunk, chemically influenced. Does that change anything? I ran away from there at 18. Then I came back, and I love them dearly. I found ways to communicate with him, the relationship was totally restored. Ironically it was by going to the big races, a childhood event brought into the present, that did this, quality father son time, respect came, love came. And dad knows I am trans and underwrites my 300.00 a month HRT bill.

So that was my family dynamics, dad and mom. Estranged sister now returned to me. Feelings out of control, talked out, boundaries agreed upon, values in place. Is there anything different here?

And by the way, we bring our family relationships into the forum, expecting others to behave like our families did. But there are as many families as there are members, and the rules for each may be so much different. Shall we impose our rules on others? Or learn what theirs are?

I am criticizing nobody here. Family is family, emotions are huge, values are too. I may not fully understand all the posts in this thread, I mean that, I dont really understand it well, but this is what the takeaway was for me on it.

That emotions are the high octane that fuel the tongue, and we race together towards a common goal.

The goal of finishing the race together without wrecking out.

Love you all. You know that....

[Deleted]

Mar 26, 2015 8:05:51 GMT 8 Shan said:

Mar 26, 2015 6:19:20 GMT 8 @jamie said:

Really Shan? Ya don't say? I will give you this and that is that you are a type A personality. But you know what? What you have to say is no less important than what anyone else has to say. Be a Bitch or Bastard, you choose the title hon because sometimes we need to hear the god awful ugly truth. I think you lend a certain attitude to this place that I can't. That not too many others can. Oh we can argue and butt heads but in the end we are family and I love and respect you more than some of my own actual family members.

I don't think it's easy being any of us. I don't believe it is easy being human period. But if you are confident in yourself. That is who you are and be proud of it. Forget about all the BS shortcomings that you said about yourself. Be you. If you want to be a tough SOB then be a tough SOB. I wouldn't think of you any other way. Piss me off. I won't care. I piss you off, I won't care. In the end if we can argue and still go have a drink together and still be friends, isn't that more magical than anything else from a Disney movie?

Thanks Jamie that's a two way street sister! btw I make a mean Cosmopolitan or if you're into manly drinks I do Manhattans that will knock your dick in the dirt if you have one. 

Nah the cosmopolitan sounds just fine. I'll stick with the girly drinks. Sometimes beer but most often wine. Oh you wouldn't want to see me drunk though. I'm one of those that the more I drink the more fun I have. It definitely brings me up instead of down.