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Post by Annys on Dec 19, 2016 9:23:37 GMT 8
Gender does not have its own inherent traits; the defining difference between genders is I think one of perspective. A different approach to the world, and different expectations about what we want from the world in turn.
I could elaborate with a wall of text, but I am trying to keep this thought more concise, because it is difficult for me to fully articulate.
Thoughts? Agree or disagree.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 19, 2016 9:52:31 GMT 8
Gender does not have its own inherent traits... the defining difference between genders is I think one of perspective. A different approach to the world Thoughts? Agree or disagree. Having different reactions to this. Neither agree nor disagree....for myself. My personal gender is pretty well defined. I dont have expectations from others. But perspectives, yes, that gets interesting. Hard to verbalize it.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Dec 20, 2016 1:14:37 GMT 8
Gender does not have its own inherent traits; the defining difference between genders is I think one of perspective. A different approach to the world, and different expectations about what we want from the world in turn. I agree, gender in and of itself has no inherent traits, it is an illusion,.. it's the matrix. From my perspective as NB, I see those who believe in traits belonging to one gender or the other. I see that despite the beliefs that those traits are exclusive, they all share those traits to one degree or another. So it does come down to a matter of perspective for them, as far as how they define their genders, especially in a binary way. Being NB is a perspective that allows one to not only see those traits as mutual, but to also have the ability to feel that as well. It's in that ability to also feel the various traits of gender that defines the core of the NB gender. That perspective varies as much as each individual does, it can move from seeing the traits as one gender or another at times, but it shifts. That shift is dependent on each situation, so the perspective shifts as it needs to. For me, that shifting of perspective is also the perspective of my own gender, it depends on the situation. I think for a majority of people who think of themselves as binary, it is dependent on their gender and not the situation so much. But I can see it, I can feel it, when they do have a shift in perspective based on the situation, but they return to their gender perspective once the moment is gone. I wonder though, just how much that shift in the situational perspective for them stays in their subconscious, if it collects and shifts their binary perspective... I wonder if they have a momentary vision of what lies beyond the matrix, that they see for themselves the illusion that it is. Does that make sense?
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Post by Annys on Dec 24, 2016 4:04:14 GMT 8
My personal gender is pretty well defined. I dont have expectations from others. Don't you? Do you ever have to hide aspects of things you like, such as jewelry, accessories, or similar? Is it not necessary to alter your presentation based on what you expect to encounter that day? (esp. work)
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Post by Annys on Dec 24, 2016 4:12:18 GMT 8
Gender does not have its own inherent traits; the defining difference between genders is I think one of perspective. A different approach to the world, and different expectations about what we want from the world in turn. I agree, gender in and of itself has no inherent traits, it is an illusion,.. it's the matrix. From my perspective as NB, I see those who believe in traits belonging to one gender or the other. I see that despite the beliefs that those traits are exclusive, they all share those traits to one degree or another. So it does come down to a matter of perspective for them, as far as how they define their genders, especially in a binary way. Being NB is a perspective that allows one to not only see those traits as mutual, but to also have the ability to feel that as well. It's in that ability to also feel the various traits of gender that defines the core of the NB gender. That perspective varies as much as each individual does, it can move from seeing the traits as one gender or another at times, but it shifts. That shift is dependent on each situation, so the perspective shifts as it needs to. For me, that shifting of perspective is also the perspective of my own gender, it depends on the situation. I think for a majority of people who think of themselves as binary, it is dependent on their gender and not the situation so much. But I can see it, I can feel it, when they do have a shift in perspective based on the situation, but they return to their gender perspective once the moment is gone. I wonder though, just how much that shift in the situational perspective for them stays in their subconscious, if it collects and shifts their binary perspective... I wonder if they have a momentary vision of what lies beyond the matrix, that they see for themselves the illusion that it is. Does that make sense? Perfectly! You're wordier than I am (and I'm an author), and I think that's why I've paid attention over the last couple years. But yes, this is precisely the sentiment I am trying to express. Thanks, Ativan.
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Post by Taka on Dec 24, 2016 4:53:29 GMT 8
gender seems innate. but traits are not. except that they are.
it's odd and interesting.
most men are attracted to women. most women are attracted to men. some believe that the genes that make people gay are misunderstood, and that the actual sexuality gene doesn't make the difference between homo-/heterosexuality, but gyne-/androsexuality. and that's not even a binary, as both attractions or neither can exist in the same person.
there will be statistic generalisations that make traits seem innate. it really does seem that more women get some traits and more men get other traits.
but nobody really knows how that works, how much is genetic, what has to do woth the gender, and what is due to socialisation.
most women don't want to dress in a way that's perceived male and vice versa. that might be an innate gender trait. but what's perceived male or female in the ways of dressing, is a social thing.
and there will always be the odd variations withing the same gender group.
research is interesting to read. but it's even more interesting how i so seriously want to have a male body, but can't figure out how to want a male identity.
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Post by Annys on Dec 24, 2016 4:57:18 GMT 8
edit: quotes are broken this belongs in the bubble above but it's even more interesting how i so seriously want to have a male body, but can't figure out how to want a male identity. This. I agree with the rest, I'm not blocking the rest of the quote for any other reason than I find this interesting.
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Post by Taka on Dec 24, 2016 5:04:27 GMT 8
haha. if you disagreed, you quote that part, wouldn't you. no need to explain yourself.
i take on a female identity. it's not very comfortable, but quite practical. i like parts of it and don't ever want to shed it completely. buy at the same time, i also dont get how that's supposed to contrast a male identity, or the parts of the male identity that sit well with me.
mix it up right, and that turns non-binary. but i don't know if that's because society decided that a man or woman can't be my way, or because i really am neither and.
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Post by Annys on Dec 24, 2016 5:12:45 GMT 8
haha. if you disagreed, you quote that part, wouldn't you. no need to explain yourself. i take on a female identity. it's not very comfortable, but quite practical. i like parts of it and don't ever want to shed it completely. buy at the same time, i also dont get how that's supposed to contrast a male identity, or the parts of the male identity that sit well with me. mix it up right, and that turns non-binary. but i don't know if that's because society decided that a man or woman can't be my way, or because i really am neither and. I seriously don't want to dominate this conversation; I want more thoughts from all of you. I have much, much more to say, but feel like adding that I do agree. Just coming from the other side! I like parts of the "male" identity. I like the parts of the "female" identity even more, and I hide them more too. Because I "should" not have them. But really, how much of those are societal perspectives and expectations, and how much is actually me? Is the grass greener, or am I unwatered grass?
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Post by Taka on Dec 24, 2016 5:40:01 GMT 8
what if you're a rare flower waiting for the right weather conditions to bloom?
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Post by Annys on Dec 24, 2016 5:49:44 GMT 8
what if you're a rare flower waiting for the right weather conditions to bloom? What if? Sounds an awful lot like "potential" which I have apparently had and thrown out the window. The exact same I wish for you, even if I know you not. I just want to be. Somehow happily.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 24, 2016 6:59:51 GMT 8
My personal gender is pretty well defined. I dont have expectations from others. Don't you? Do you ever have to hide aspects of things you like, such as jewelry, accessories, or similar? Is it not necessary to alter your presentation based on what you expect to encounter that day? (esp. work) Ahhh. Yes of course, sure. What i dont expect is acceptance.
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Post by Trinity on Dec 24, 2016 7:15:32 GMT 8
what if you're a rare flower waiting for the right weather conditions to bloom? What if? Sounds an awful lot like "potential" which I have apparently had and thrown out the window. The exact same I wish for you, even if I know you not. I just want to be. Somehow happily. Thrown out the window? Potential, it doesnt die. And we manipulate the matrix as we wish, to our advantage. But the flower is still a flower, your own unique truth. You are both special to me. You deserve to be all you are. If there is no water, i hope sincerely you find some, and drink ot deeply.
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Post by Annys on Dec 24, 2016 15:53:00 GMT 8
What if? Sounds an awful lot like "potential" which I have apparently had and thrown out the window. The exact same I wish for you, even if I know you not. I just want to be. Somehow happily. Thrown out the window? Potential, it doesnt die. And we manipulate the matrix as we wish, to our advantage. But the flower is still a flower, your own unique truth. You are both special to me. You deserve to be all you are. If there is no water, i hope sincerely you find some, and drink ot deeply. So I am told. Please pardon my interjection. I wish to return to the topic I first presented. The male and female are as my avatar; I am an angry lion at peace. The elf is there, constantly, telling me the way. Neither are "correct". They are two conflicting views, endless war and peace.
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BeanSimulator
New Member
just a small bean trying to grow
Posts: 14
Gender: Non-Binary
Presentation: Gender Neutral
Presentation: but sometimes 'boyish'
Pronouns: They/Their/Them
Pronouns: bur maybe he/him sometimes
Orientation: Pansexual
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Gender Neutral
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They/Their/Them
bur maybe he/him sometimes
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Post by BeanSimulator on Jan 30, 2017 9:27:49 GMT 8
Interestingly enough, I realized just today that perhaps I haven't been looking for myself been looking in the right ways. What was once scary and seemingly impossible to decipher seemed so simple and plausible (not certain, maybe just less scary) when I turned some thoughts around. What was intimidating about being a masculine presenting agender I couldn't seem to apply to an androgynous presenting male. I know that's horribly vague but even though it's a tough question I wanted to share.
So the short answer from me, is agree.
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