[ti]fish[/ti]Help i am confused!

[Tristan]

Hello, i already introduced myself a while back but i haven't been around and i have a couple questions so iv'e come to ask.

I am 22 years old and have been identifying as a Agender/Male when in reality i'm still lost i probably am going to transition 

but my problem is i feel like everything in me is confused. I don't really like to apply myself to a gender but do feel masculine

and i also feel feminine i want my body to look and feel more male the more i think about things i may eventually even do both surgery's.  But in the end i don't feel like even with transition i'll ever be male maybe it's because i was brought up one way?Or maybe its because i can't understand gender or my gender?

I really don't have  a clue i only wish i understood. 
I just know i am NOT female and NEVER will be female however i do feel feminine and sometimes i hear myself saying i sort of miss that feeling of being seen as female? Maybe because there seen a certain way? I don't know but its becoming really hard for me to cope with and all of these's feelings i wish i had a answer too and i don't. I was hoping someone around here could help?

[Trinity]

Aug 13, 2016 0:43:18 GMT 8 Tristan said:

Hello, i already introduced myself a while back but i haven't been around and i have a couple questions so iv'e come to ask.

I am 22 years old and have been identifying as a Agender/Male when in reality i'm still lost i probably am going to transition 

but my problem is i feel like everything in me is confused. I don't really like to apply myself to a gender but do feel masculine

and i also feel feminine i want my body to look and feel more male the more i think about things i may eventually even do both surgery's.  But in the end i don't feel like even with transition i'll ever be male maybe it's because i was brought up one way?Or maybe its because i can't understand gender or my gender?

I really don't have  a clue i only wish i understood. 
I just know i am NOT female and NEVER will be female however i do feel feminine and sometimes i hear myself saying i sort of miss that feeling of being seen as female? Maybe because there seen a certain way? I don't know but its becoming really hard for me to cope with and all of these's feelings i wish i had a answer too and i don't. I was hoping someone around here could help?

There are a lot of people who can help honey.

Non binary feelings are like this, and we are all kind of different and kind of the same.

How we are brought up, in the binary system, influences are thoughts a lot, we see things as being in a line, one gender, another gender, an in between gender.

But we are really not in a line between male and female, we are experiencing both at the same time, sometimes they fight, sometimes one dominates, sometimes we are able to blend it together to become our own unique gender experience and expression.  And there is no reason you cant be ftm and still express female when you want to.  I am full transition to female, less the surgeries, which I don't want or need right now.  But even if I did have the surgeries, I still can enjoy all of the gender experiences I want to.

It doesn't change who I am or how I feel.  I can race a car, or turn a head just being sh'e and being an attractive older woman, which I am, when I desire to be, but I am not a woman.  Nor am I a man.

I am nonbinary trans, and full transition on hormones, so you could argue that I am also transsexual, and I am, I changed my gender from one, to a new one.  One that is my own.

we have to unlearn the gender binary, then learn our selves, and take the best of whatever we want to be and feel, accept it, own it, live it, and finally have joy in it.  And that can be anything.

Leading up to.... how do you feel?

[Leena]

Aug 13, 2016 0:43:18 GMT 8 Tristan said:

Hello, i already introduced myself a while back but i haven't been around and i have a couple questions so iv'e come to ask.

I am 22 years old and have been identifying as a Agender/Male when in reality i'm still lost i probably am going to transition 

but my problem is i feel like everything in me is confused. I don't really like to apply myself to a gender but do feel masculine

and i also feel feminine i want my body to look and feel more male the more i think about things i may eventually even do both surgery's.  But in the end i don't feel like even with transition i'll ever be male maybe it's because i was brought up one way?Or maybe its because i can't understand gender or my gender?

I really don't have  a clue i only wish i understood. 
I just know i am NOT female and NEVER will be female however i do feel feminine and sometimes i hear myself saying i sort of miss that feeling of being seen as female? Maybe because there seen a certain way? I don't know but its becoming really hard for me to cope with and all of these's feelings i wish i had a answer too and i don't. I was hoping someone around here could help?

Substitute feminine for everywhere you said masculine and vice-versa and I feel much the same way. While there are pressures to pick one binary gender or the other, you don't necessarily have to. I'm taking steps towards making my appearance more feminine, though I'll never completely be a woman.

I sometimes like being seen as a guy, and go out in guy mode. More often lately, I go out as a mix of the two. I am always me though, no matter how I present. Gender is only a part of who I am, really the other parts are important too.

[Tristan]

Aug 13, 2016 3:12:45 GMT 8 Trinity said:

Aug 13, 2016 0:43:18 GMT 8 Tristan said:

Hello, i already introduced myself a while back but i haven't been around and i have a couple questions so iv'e come to ask.

I am 22 years old and have been identifying as a Agender/Male when in reality i'm still lost i probably am going to transition 

but my problem is i feel like everything in me is confused. I don't really like to apply myself to a gender but do feel masculine

and i also feel feminine i want my body to look and feel more male the more i think about things i may eventually even do both surgery's.  But in the end i don't feel like even with transition i'll ever be male maybe it's because i was brought up one way?Or maybe its because i can't understand gender or my gender?

I really don't have  a clue i only wish i understood. 
I just know i am NOT female and NEVER will be female however i do feel feminine and sometimes i hear myself saying i sort of miss that feeling of being seen as female? Maybe because there seen a certain way? I don't know but its becoming really hard for me to cope with and all of these's feelings i wish i had a answer too and i don't. I was hoping someone around here could help?

There are a lot of people who can help honey.

Non binary feelings are like this, and we are all kind of different and kind of the same.

How we are brought up, in the binary system, influences are thoughts a lot, we see things as being in a line, one gender, another gender, an in between gender.

But we are really not in a line between male and female, we are experiencing both at the same time, sometimes they fight, sometimes one dominates, sometimes we are able to blend it together to become our own unique gender experience and expression.  And there is no reason you cant be ftm and still express female when you want to.  I am full transition to female, less the surgeries, which I don't want or need right now.  But even if I did have the surgeries, I still can enjoy all of the gender experiences I want to.

It doesn't change who I am or how I feel.  I can race a car, or turn a head just being sh'e and being an attractive older woman, which I am, when I desire to be, but I am not a woman.  Nor am I a man.

I am nonbinary trans, and full transition on hormones, so you could argue that I am also transsexual, and I am, I changed my gender from one, to a new one.  One that is my own.

we have to unlearn the gender binary, then learn our selves, and take the best of whatever we want to be and feel, accept it, own it, live it, and finally have joy in it.  And that can be anything.

Leading up to.... how do you feel?

Thank you 
and yea i accept that may be the case with me is that i'm non binary but i sometimes feel this burning need to fit somewhere inside gender because it hurts when i don't 
when i don't fit i'm never accepted, when i don't fit into the grouping i feel like i'm being pulled two ways and nobody can catch up to me or my pronouns when that happens 
or my names. and that part sucks..

[Tristan]

Aug 13, 2016 4:47:38 GMT 8 Leena said:

Aug 13, 2016 0:43:18 GMT 8 Tristan said:

Hello, i already introduced myself a while back but i haven't been around and i have a couple questions so iv'e come to ask.

I am 22 years old and have been identifying as a Agender/Male when in reality i'm still lost i probably am going to transition 

but my problem is i feel like everything in me is confused. I don't really like to apply myself to a gender but do feel masculine

and i also feel feminine i want my body to look and feel more male the more i think about things i may eventually even do both surgery's.  But in the end i don't feel like even with transition i'll ever be male maybe it's because i was brought up one way?Or maybe its because i can't understand gender or my gender?

I really don't have  a clue i only wish i understood. 
I just know i am NOT female and NEVER will be female however i do feel feminine and sometimes i hear myself saying i sort of miss that feeling of being seen as female? Maybe because there seen a certain way? I don't know but its becoming really hard for me to cope with and all of these's feelings i wish i had a answer too and i don't. I was hoping someone around here could help?

Substitute feminine for everywhere you said masculine and vice-versa and I feel much the same way. While there are pressures to pick one binary gender or the other, you don't necessarily have to. I'm taking steps towards making my appearance more feminine, though I'll never completely be a woman.

I sometimes like being seen as a guy, and go out in guy mode. More often lately, I go out as a mix of the two. I am always me though, no matter how I present. Gender is only a part of who I am, really the other parts are important too.

What do you mean when you said substitute feminine or everywhere i said masculine? 
And do you mind me asking how others see this? Because when i went outside the binary nobody could catch up to me and it sucked.

[Leena]

I just meant that I was DMAB and making my body more feminine rather than masculine though feel masculine sometimes.

Others generally read me as a gay guy, and while that's completely inaccurate, as I'm not a guy and only date women, I've learned to accept that's how most people are going to see me, unless they really get to know me. They get that I'm LGBTQ at least, they just don't place me quite in the right part of that, many non-LGBTQ people don't really care to understand the differences anyway.

What for you sucked about being outside the binary?

[Taka]

you're not all that different from me, though my hair is actually rainbow colored nowadays.

i don't feel male or female or feminine or masculine. sometimes i'm more man, and i have lived out my womanhood as properly as any woman could. but that didn't really make me more of a woman.

actually, having experienced all that is supposedly the best (and some of the worst) that a woman can get in her life, i'm seriously done with this role. not something i could continue, or i would lose my mind.

but i still can't define myself at all. both man and woman could be right at times, but also completely wrong.

so what i ended up on deciding, was that there is no need to define yourself. you will always be you, no matter how you do or don't define your gender.

the important question is what part of your current situation are you unhappy with, and how would you like to change it?

any person who knows something about gender, should also know that not all can be easily defined, but even we may need medical treatment. i found a gp who was perfectly ok with me being non-binary, and agreed to try treating my discomfort with everything to do with menses with testosterone. instead of estrogen, which most other doctors would try to push on a "woman".

that's the kind of therapist or common gp or whatever you should look for. someone who doesn't need definitions, but is more interested in helping you treat your discomfort, that dysphoria which doesn't necessarily make your life miserable, but is still in the way of a complete happiness.

hrt is a good place to start. often even better than coming out to lots of people and being disappointed when they don't understand anything at all.

life isn't black and white, but it seems most people have that serious a color blindness when it comes to natural variation in humans. they can see lots of grey tones, which they define as femininity and masculinity, but fail to see true colors. we are among the colors, and we see them and love them. but we should never really expect colorblind people to understand the beauty of a rainbow.

when people talk about the gender spectrum, they seem to envision something like white and black at the ends with shades of grey in between. with their color blindness, they'd see me as rather grey, and most would place me closer to one end, while other will agree that i'm actually closer to the other end (and make me ftm transsexual). but i'm pretty sure i'm a swirl of orange and purple, which means i'm not even on that spectrum. the majority who granted themselves the right to define everything just don't see it, because when most people are color blind, it's really hard to convince them that colors exist.

[Deleted]

I really don't think I am the best at giving advice but just be yourself and allow yourself outward to be who you are inside.

Society has a way of brainwashing us in the way that, "Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina." but that isn't always true though is it?

Some people may not like you because you are overweight, others may love you because you are overweight. Some people may not like you because you have a long nose or curly hair and others may love those aspects. I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone has haters and admirers. This is a fact of human nature.

OK so you are confused but what exactly are you confused about? You are you. You can't be anyone else but you and if you try then you are faking it and people will pick up on that.

LOL So you can be a masculine female and as a matter of fact my ex wife was the biggest dickhead MFer I have ever experienced even more so than most cis men.  She didn't and still don't even recognize it. She was abusive both verbally and physically and I took it. She had to call all the shots of where we lived, what we did and so on. She was over controlling and in her mind always right.  I felt like I was married to her Daddy.  Yeah a little bit of bad blood there. Just don't be like that though. Embrace who you are and if you are a male then be a gentleman and if you are a female then be a lady and if you are in between just be a good person.

I really hate to tell you this but the answers to your confusion is inside of yourself. No one else can tell you who you are. All we can do is help you through it and all the ups and downs. But we are here for you whenever you need.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Peoples genders (and their sexuality for that matter) are simply made up of all the different aspects of gender as we perceive them to be.
I see them as a constant flow of masculine to feminine aspects and they are because of how they were presented to me and to how I see them now.

Hollywood and TV have stereotyped much of how we perceive gender aspects, they have for most of our lives...
We pick from that constant flow of them, we pick the ones that have a good or best fit, letting the other ones go by or only grab onto them, just to let go of them.
I suppose you could say that we also have a flow of them that come from us and that projects a presentation to others, and they perceive it as a part of their flow.

Not that everyone actually does perceive those aspects, one way or another, as an actual flow of them.
By contrast, many people perceive them as being quite static and unchanging.
Their worlds are often very black and white, feminine or masculine, as far a gender and even sexuality are concerned.

But for those who don't quite perceive gender aspects as this or that, it's easier in my mind to think of them as a constant flow of them around me and from me.
We can pick and choose them as necessary and as needed. Let them go as well...
I think this is much easier for NB and GQ people to pick up on as a way to describe or visualize ourselves, as a way to attempt to describe just what makes us different.

Gender aspects are not only masculine or feminine, they are what we perceive them to be and if that's different, it's because we are as well.
We grew up as different, some find this out later than others, but we have the ability to see beyond what we were told it is, we perceive the world on our own terms.

We are all different and we all see things in our own ways, but the difference is, we can see beyond the typical stereotypes with ease...
In a sense, we are gifted when it comes to knowing gender, we have a perception that goes beyond what we have always been told.
If we even try to make that perception work in the limited way that so many simply view gender as, sure it might seem to be confusing.

Trust your instincts to know, just who you are and who you are going to be.
The only limits are the ones you let yourself have.

[Deleted]

Very interesting Ativan.

Gender is one thing and sexual orientation is another. Most people perceive the concept of gender as sexual orientation. But that isn't necessarily true though is it?

OK so I will admit that I am and have always been bi. But I never shit in my own backyard  meaning that my family and group of friends other than the very closest that were either LGBT too never knew. And we did not out each other. Hell we couldn't because in a place like where I grew up that would be a "Hell" sentence. You would get bullied, verbally abused, shunned, and beat up and so on. Hell even one of my best friends never knew and I didn't know he was gay until we reconnected because we were too close to each other's families. Now we know who each other are though.

So here is where my confusion kicks in. What was it about me that most people thought that I was gay growing up? Hell I had girlfriends. Boyfriends were always out of town though or part of the LGBT equation. I won't lie because I acted like an arrogant sex maddened asshole that only cared about chasing girls close to home. This was way before the internet, let alone facebook or myspace or even a personal computer. In typing class we had IBM typewriters and the computers we had only had green letters and we had to manually boot them up. BTW when I was growing up the T didn't exist except for transsexual and that was far far away from where I grew up. Trannies back then only existed in fairytale lands like California and New York, or it seemed like. Unless of course you were transgendered. Then it became real for you.

Looking back I am way more confused now than I was back then at how I could act like a manly guy and still be called sissy and gay. How the hell did some people pick up on that? Didn't really bother me too much though and secretly I felt kind of happy that I didn't have to say anything but I showed no outward appearances. But it could have been that I had more friends that were girls than guys. It could have been that I was not afraid of girls like most guys are in that awkward stage even though I had more actual girlfriends than the average guy did. Not girl friends but girlfriends because they trusted me more than the average guy. But it was all just a front though. I knew it and some of my girlfriends turned out to be lesbians later on. That's a thinker.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Yah,.. I could have worded that first line better.
What I was getting at is that sexuality or orientation is made up of aspects and how we perceive them, as well.
They do intertwine for many on a personal level, so in some sense they both could be affected by all of the aspects of gender and orientation in general.

I grew up in the era of manual typewriters and no computers, but transsexuals were a part of my experiences in the late sixties and on.
I know them more as transgender and NB or GQ now looking back, but they were a part of the crowds I ran with.
Trans was just another part of the overall 'hippie' movement back then, but so many other things were as well.
There were so many things going on all the time with friends, and friends of friends, that nothing was really very much of a surprise or too far out there.
Sex, drugs, rock and roll... anything goes and it did if you knew the right places to be.

[Deleted]

Oh hell. I knew what you meant.

I wasn't lucky enough to grow up around that many. Actually only one that I knew in school and he was a trans guy. It was just one of those things that you kept secret unless others were like you. Like I said I didn't even know my best friend was gay until after we reconnected. I was one year older than he was but went to high school two years before him because he got held back a grade. But where I grew up it was just something you kept your mouth shut about.

Well I actually missed the hippie movement but was lucky enough to be in the glam rock or hairband era. So we weren't "burned out potheads totally for free love" we were "horny drug addicts that would fancy up and have sex with anything that walked on two legs" pretty much.  But even where I grew up you could get away with wearing makeup and having big hair especially if you were in a band. Then you cold get away with a lot more like the skimpy clothes and so on.