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Post by EchelonHunt on Nov 23, 2014 22:52:31 GMT 8
Hello everyone! Thought I would start the Mental Health section off with a bang: a topic that was not allowed to be discussed on the previous forum. Probably because it would spark debates but I am sure even if that happens here, that I know you will all be very respectful as you have been the past few days. I am very proud of you all!!
Admin voice: Alert, members, alert! Incoming hugs and kisses! XOXOXO 8D
Do you think there is a distinct difference between the two conditions or can the lines blur?
For me, I feel it is very distinct. I have issues with my female parts of my body. Sure, if I had the money, I would like to fix my lazy eye, fix the varicose veins on my legs and feet, make it so my nostrils are both the same size, my lips fuller... heck, I even wanted to change my entire appearance to look oriental... I know those are just my insecurities. I accept my flaws and love myself for them, however, the female parts... not that easy to accept when I have daily reminders every single day.
I know it is a common myth that people get these conditions mixed up because there is dysphoria experienced in both conditions.
What do you think? Opinions, thoughts? Go all out!
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Post by Taka on Nov 24, 2014 4:33:37 GMT 8
both are a form of body dysphoria the way i see it. the difference would be that gender (sex characteristics) related body dysphoria is caused by having a brain structure that is developed to fit a fundamentally different body structure, even if it's really only for one little part of the body. a penis and a vagina are rather different after all. body dysmorphia seems more of a case where a mental state makes the person blame body parts or that the person fails to accept the mirror image of their body as normal. wanting to change sex can be caused by ptsd after a horrible rape episode or continuous verbal attacks on basis of gender, rather than actual gender dysphoria (whether it be social or body dysphoria). the grass does look greener on the other side and fixing the body does seem like it's much easier than fixing the mind or other people's minds.
i did worry a lot that my condition was a form if body dysmorphia, like how i hate my breasts. the reason i finally gave up this as an explanation, is that no matter how much i tried to relate it to a case of abuse, i realized that having my breasts touched didn't trigger bad memories at all. the only discomfort i feet is a creepy sense of this being extremely unnatural, not supposed to be there. getting over myself should theoretically have fixed the discomfort of body dysmorphia. but i don't have problems woth my looks, only how unnatural it feels to have certain parts.
when i read about body integrity disorder, it sounds a whole lot lile (gender) body dysphoria. i feel really sorry for anyone who's creeped out by a body part that isn't supposed to be there, understands how crazy it really is, but can't even blame it on something like being trans. being trans makes sense because we can imagine a female brain in a male body. many can't imagine the naturalness of being born with one leg, or brain structure developed only for one of the legs.
it feels very problematic to me that when the body dysphoria can be proved to not have anything to do with mental illness, this still doesn't give opportunity for amputation , top surgery, srs, whatever it is that the person needs. and it seems even more problematic that the necessity of such surgery still isn't being considered seriously enough even when it is known that this can be the only cure for a deep depression, and an amazingly effective one too.
i'm probably not explaning myself well enough, others will have to help or correct me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 10:20:22 GMT 8
I don't really know what body dysmorphic disorder is... This is my first time hearing of it. I'm sort of inferring from the above posts that it's not liking a particular part of your body, not necessarily related to gender? But if that were the case, it seems like something everyone would have...
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Post by Taka on Nov 24, 2014 19:10:08 GMT 8
not liking a body part is normal. obsessing over a feature being abnormal even when it's perfectly average or prettier is more like it. me as a woman thinking that my hands are too manly would be bdd if it became ocd-like. my body is feminine enough that i shouldn't have to worry about starting to look manlier. but this was caused by trying to repress my gender. accepting my gender fixed it. accepting my gender still couldn't fix my feeling that breasts are wrong, it only made me not see my features as uglier or more abnormal than they really are. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 19:45:28 GMT 8
Ah, okay. Thank you for explaining it to me, Taka.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 22:26:41 GMT 8
All of this is just my opinions and own experience and is no way pertaining to how everyone else experiences it.
I think dysphoria is dysphoria. Whether it is the body dysmorphic or gender identity. Any form if dysphoria is not a good thing when it comes to mental health. To me, I think it is dysphoric when it becomes an obsession that becomes overwhelming. Like someone suffering from anorexia will see their body as fat no matter how skinny. So they are seeing their bodies as wrong just like we do with GID. This is really a hard subject to even think about. I think there are major differences between the two. Like people that think they are so ugly that no matter how much plastic surgery they get and I seen some go too far with it, but they somehow became obsessed with their looks that even though they were beautiful or handsome before all they can see is what they perceive as faults that need to be fixed.
Thank God I don't suffer GID to such crippling effects. I mean my body is just a body. My psychological makeup and personality is who I am regardless of the body. But last week for three days I felt overwhelmed. It consumed me for 3 long days. I was actually obsessing over how everything was wrong with my body and didn't match my own inner self. What triggered it I don't know. It's always there but usually just a dull hum and, this is gonna' sound so messed up but, kind of reinforces my own self identity as female on the inside. Last weak it was freakin screaming and was extremely overwhelming and I felt obsessed that everything about my body was wrong. It faded like always thankfully and now back to that somehow constant reassuring hum.
So, I don't see my body as really wrong. Not right but not really wrong either. When I become dysphoric, everything about my body is wrong. Then it becomes all consuming and all I can think about. And then everything about my psyche is wrong And to me it feels like an obsession and it takes control over everything. Not to mention self loathing, self hate, and anything else that comes along with it. It is all I can think of and that is how wrong I am all the way around.
That's just the way I experience it. What it feels like to me. Dysphoria hurts. Dysphoria no matter from what is dangerous physically and psychologically. Either from complications of surgery because you will never look perfect enough to be satisfied, staving to death or by our own hands.
Oh there are things I would like to fix for sure. Especially the junk. Last week I obsessed over it really bad. It passed though. In a couple of weeks or months I will obsess over it again. Hell even now that little hum is in the back of my head but like I said earlier that is more reassuring of my own self identity than not.
Yeah, I may be a little weird. :-/
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Post by Taka on Nov 24, 2014 22:35:02 GMT 8
it's not weird. there are more than enough people who have so weak gender dysphoria that they keep doubting their non-conforming identity. crippling dysphoroa would be such a welcome sign of identity.
but body dysmorphic disorder doesn't seem like something that could reinforce an identity. crippling and driving people to destroy their identity seems more like it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 0:05:35 GMT 8
it's not weird. there are more than enough people who have so weak gender dysphoria that they keep doubting their non-conforming identity. crippling dysphoroa would be such a welcome sign of identity. but body dysmorphic disorder doesn't seem like something that could reinforce an identity. crippling and driving people to destroy their identity seems more like it. I don't know. The crippling dysphoria sux. If it was like that for me constantly, I really have no idea what I would do. When it goes back the steady hum then my self identity becomes more normal. Last week I lost my self identity even. That bout of dyphoria drowned everything out for me. Even four years in the military when a lot of people do it to try to be the masculine. I did it just to see if mine was really there. Unfortunately I was stuck with the decision for four years. The first four months I didn't have time to think about anything other than not doing pushups. The first six months after was interesting because I was in another country, then the ten month mark was like, " Oh crap. What did I do? This ain't me." I stuck it out but it really opened my eyes because even faking it, there was very little masculinity there. Just enough to fake it. Then the countdown began. I won't say I regret the decision, far from it and glad I did it but it reinforced the whole gender thing and made me a little more sure. I really can't explain it but to me the whole GID thing seems to be more of a feeling of innerself and the outside not matching. The body dysphoria may be still an internal thing and having an image of the perfect look. I'm really gonna have to look it up and do a little reading but therapy and psychology can help the body dysmorphia by changing the way you see yourself. I don't think there is any amount of therapy or psychology that can ease the GID. To me that is about who we are and not about a perfect body. I would assume most with body dysmorphia are still comfortable with their gender. Time for a little research on the net when I get time.
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Post by Taka on Nov 25, 2014 1:18:47 GMT 8
body dysmorphia usually doesn't have to do with gender, but it's not impossible.
i was speaking from a grass-is-greener pov. many feel it would be easier to make a decision if there was serioisly bad gd as proof.
gender related body dysphoria seems to have a whole lot in common with body integrity identity disorder. you should look it up on wikipedia, it's interesting to read.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 4:11:47 GMT 8
body dysmorphia usually doesn't have to do with gender, but it's not impossible. i was speaking from a grass-is-greener pov. many feel it would be easier to make a decision if there was serioisly bad gd as proof. gender related body dysphoria seems to have a whole lot in common with body integrity identity disorder. you should look it up on wikipedia, it's interesting to read. Oh believe me. I know exactly where you are coming from. Then the decision would be easier for sure. But what really scares me the most is the effect it would have on my emotions and thoughts. They're extremely female right now and being on E even on low dosages I don't know how much more emotional I could get. I don't know if that makes any sense. Even my shrink knew way before I opened up.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 8:13:54 GMT 8
Wow, learning again. I did look it up on wikipedia Oh by the way trigger warning, I'm not doing real well with this. I suffer periodically from both. My body sometimes makes me so dysfunctional that I want to take a knife to it. My brain can render gender into a nightmare of doubt and fear. Neither have put me on the edge since spring. But every two weeks I have an electrolysis session for which I have to let facial hair grow for a couple of days. It's not that bad now, but there have been times when I would cry and be afraid to be seen because I felt so hideous. I'm sorry, I love you. Love you too sweetheart, don't worry I'm always here for you Julie, I'm not willing to let anything bad befall you ever! You call me anytime you're in a funk!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 8:47:14 GMT 8
Wow, learning again. I did look it up on wikipedia Oh by the way trigger warning, I'm not doing real well with this. I suffer periodically from both. My body sometimes makes me so dysfunctional that I want to take a knife to it. My brain can render gender into a nightmare of doubt and fear. Neither have put me on the edge since spring. But every two weeks I have an electrolysis session for which I have to let facial hair grow for a couple of days. It's not that bad now, but there have been times when I would cry and be afraid to be seen because I felt so hideous. Is that body or gender driving me mad? Both I think. What keeps me from self mutilating is the certain knowledge that I can eventually find a remedy. If I lost that hope I'm a goner. That is one of the things that keeps me coming back. That is why I use my real image, and update it every few months. That is why the affirmation that I get here makes it possible for me to smile. That is why I will do almost anything for the people in my life that affirms them. Jamie, HRT actually made me less emotional. I was a little girl trapped in an old dudes clothes. As the clothes began to fit the emotional whirlwind began to abate. The gender dysphoria disrupts my internal image which is further skewed by my image in a silvered glass. I cannot tolerate seeing myself completely naked. Having male genetilia grosses me out. It has for years. Is that gender or body dysmorphia? Even talking about this makes me acutely aware of my deficiencies physically and mentally as a woman. I am trembling and anxious. Why? Pretty much the only time I am completely at ease is when I am tightly wrapped in a lovers arms and made to feel feminine and desirable. But even that is ephemeral. The morning comes How I am surviving sober is a miracle. It is hope that one day it will all work, and the sure and certain knowledge that for me to drink is to surrender to darkness and death. So Julie girl what's it to be, hope or dysphoria and death. The really scary thing is I don't know from day to day. So far I function well enough, but I am at that point in transition where I am in a holding pattern waiting on events I cannot control. The changes to my body are slowing, the changes to my understanding are slowing. That which causes me tremendous angst cannot be addressed for some time. I feel immersed in jello and respond by being inappropriate. I'm sorry, I love you. Don't be sorry. You know my deal and the telephone. Hon I will be emotional no matter what. That is just me. I cry, I care, I love. I hurt. Not a bad thing and even a good thing because I feel. I wouldn't trade it for the rest of the world. Sad, I cry. Happy I cry. I really don't know how to explain it other than I truly am a freak of nature. I don't mind though. Still wouldn't trade it. Day to day. Take it day to day. BTW I haven;t said anything yet but your avatar. OMFG. How can you not be a woman? Regardless of the junk. In another thread I mentioned Bailey Jay and even though she is really young, she is wise beyond her years. No matter what she does to make her own way. Look her up on youtube with teh question deal and even with her beauty and every freakin straight guy that would give thier sould for her, she still questions herself. So it truly may never go away. But you are who you are and I love you for it. OK?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 10:57:10 GMT 8
Wow, learning again. I did look it up on wikipedia Oh by the way trigger warning, I'm not doing real well with this. I suffer periodically from both. My body sometimes makes me so dysfunctional that I want to take a knife to it. My brain can render gender into a nightmare of doubt and fear. Neither have put me on the edge since spring. But every two weeks I have an electrolysis session for which I have to let facial hair grow for a couple of days. It's not that bad now, but there have been times when I would cry and be afraid to be seen because I felt so hideous. Is that body or gender driving me mad? Both I think. What keeps me from self mutilating is the certain knowledge that I can eventually find a remedy. If I lost that hope I'm a goner. That is one of the things that keeps me coming back. That is why I use my real image, and update it every few months. That is why the affirmation that I get here makes it possible for me to smile. That is why I will do almost anything for the people in my life that affirms them. Jamie, HRT actually made me less emotional. I was a little girl trapped in an old dudes clothes. As the clothes began to fit the emotional whirlwind began to abate. The gender dysphoria disrupts my internal image which is further skewed by my image in a silvered glass. I cannot tolerate seeing myself completely naked. Having male genetilia grosses me out. It has for years. Is that gender or body dysmorphia? Even talking about this makes me acutely aware of my deficiencies physically and mentally as a woman. I am trembling and anxious. Why? Pretty much the only time I am completely at ease is when I am tightly wrapped in a lovers arms and made to feel feminine and desirable. But even that is ephemeral. The morning comes How I am surviving sober is a miracle. It is hope that one day it will all work, and the sure and certain knowledge that for me to drink is to surrender to darkness and death. So Julie girl what's it to be, hope or dysphoria and death. The really scary thing is I don't know from day to day. So far I function well enough, but I am at that point in transition where I am in a holding pattern waiting on events I cannot control. The changes to my body are slowing, the changes to my understanding are slowing. That which causes me tremendous angst cannot be addressed for some time. I feel immersed in jello and respond by being inappropriate. I'm sorry, I love you. I have my clean and sober eye on you girl. We both win through together here. Unconditional sobriety. Over five decades of it between both of us, and a century of dysphoria. Sober warriors of trans paired up back to back. Blessings Satinjoy
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 12:07:11 GMT 8
Pretty much the only time I am completely at ease is when I am tightly wrapped in a lovers arms and made to feel feminine and desirable. But even that is ephemeral. The morning comes How I am surviving sober is a miracle. It is hope that one day it will all work, and the sure and certain knowledge that for me to drink is to surrender to darkness and death. So Julie girl what's it to be, hope or dysphoria and death. I'm sorry, I love you. Yeah the morning comes. A bright new day. It's all how you look at it dear. A lover will still be there no matter and if not they are not worth it. You are though if even just for yourself.. How are you surviving sober? Never give that up. If you were addicted you overcame the addiction and that is no small feat in the least. I want you to choose hope. So Julie girl, please choose hope. Dysporia sux and death is so overrated. So let's look at it in a philosophical way. If we are atheist, then nothing. That isn't a really good thing. I would rather feel pain than nothing. At least I would feel. Heaven or hell. Well suicide even slow is still suicide and a sin so in a religious sense and eternity of pain. Spiritual and the way I believe in reincarnation personally, even slow suicide is still suicide and you are bound to repeat the lesson. That is more frightening to me than nothing or hell. This is bad enough for me. I just spent three days in hell and it ain't fun and I will spend some more time in hell but I can deal with it. So what is stopping you from being completely at ease? My gawd Julie. Have you not learned anything from me yet? Be proud of what you accomplished. Be proud of you. Your avatar is kick ass and I am so blessed to know you even in cyberspace. I am proud to call you friend. You need the same pride in yourself. No matter what, you have taken charge of your own life. Sometimes that is ore empowering than anything else. Tomorrow is a bright new day no matter the weather. It is a new day filled with possibilities. I know I am pumping sunshine because I spent three days in hell but the fourth day. The clouds parted and where there was hopelessness for three days there was hope. Where there was darkness for three days then there was sunshine. I don't know how deep you are but I know hell and the directions to find your way out. I think I have them written down somewhere. Just ask. Love, Jamie.
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Post by Ayla on Nov 25, 2014 19:50:34 GMT 8
Julie
Any time that Jamie and SJ aren't there please call. You have been a source of great motivation in your determination to find and express your truth. My approach is to focus on the positive and to deliberately avoid the negative. It works for me. I can't look backwards, regret kills me. I work on reducing my obsession with the future and what may be. Learning to be fully present and realising the potential in each and every moment is my goal. Still imperfect. Still learning, but I am getting better. Life is improving. Just one step at a time.
Safe travels
Aisla
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