Convincing yourself...?

[Deleted]

I'm not sure what triggered it but last week I suddenly remembered many things about how I was very much attracted to dressing like the opposite gender when I was younger. I still had this desire growing up but I somehow convinced myself that I just wanted to be a crossdresser.
Transgender (in the sense of MtF and FtM only) didn't enter my vocabulary until I was 18.
I became scared because I wondered if I was now convincing myself that I was transgender because I learned what it was and because I felt that I wanted to be the other gender (or have the other genitals) at times.
But sometimes I felt okay with my body the way it is. So I thought I couldn't be transgender.
Whenever I found somebody attractive I always felt like it was a same-sex attraction even though my body only has one physical sex.
Sometimes I try to convince myself that I'm truly just my assigned gender at birth.
I don't mind the gendered pronouns that come along with it when talking to people in public.
Online I hate gendering myself. I just roll with whatever pronoun people assume me to be.
I learned "they/their/them" is a thing but I'm not sure how to ask people to use it without calling attention to my gender which I'm still unsure of.
I can't bring myself to say things like "I'm a woman" or "I'm a man" because both feel wrong.
I feel like I lost my way and am suddenly finding my original path again.

Have you ever had times where you felt like you were convincing yourself one way or another? How do you sort out your true feelings from thoughts of what you think you should be feeling?

[Trinity]

Great topic R. Thinking about this one for a bit...there is a lot packed into that post. I had a tough time getting it myself, and a lot of help.

I think deep inside we intuitively know, but you have to shut down all the noise and fear and stuff.

Right with you on that not a guy not a girl thing... I am not a transwoman either. Transperson works.

Don't worry too much about what you are. More a question of what you like, what feels comfortable, what is real to you in the moment you are in.

I always did not feel I was convincing myself, but I would feel I could be deceiving myself instead. And I was, for a long time, but it was part of the process. Its hard to explain it, I had a breakthrough in July, 2 and a quarter years into transition hormonally.

Which was fine, cool, right, but until I realized who I was and got comfortable with it, it kind of was a roller coaster ride of fear, to be honest. Some of which was avoidable.

Its not about whether we are trans or not. It becomes about being our real, and enjoying it. Body dysphoria is cruel, if you don't have it, be very happy about that. It makes no difference to us here on the forum by the way whether you are trans or not. All we care about is helping you find your truth. And trans sounds like another box...we don't do box...not if we can help it anyway. You can be gender free and not change anything, but you will be aware you are outside the constructs, the rules that don't apply to you anyway, because your mind is freed.

Rambling. Not sure what to say. Someone else may have something a lot better than this.

Trying to convince, there is a key in there someplace, you don't need to convince...just feel...deep inside feel what is right and real, and sometimes for nonbinaries that can change a lot, and its hard to pin down. And thats ok too, its all valid.

Its your own gender. Your personal gender experience. Something to discover and cherish.

Trinity

[EchelonHunt]

How do you see yourself in your mind? Everyone has an idea, a self image of themselves they wish to be or a body they wish to have if their physical body doesn't match.

I found my internal image of myself is a very feminine male who wears girly clothing and sometimes goth as fuck clothing.

That internal image of myself is what I like to call my true self. It is my current avatar ccurrently being patient on waiting for my real hair to grow to the wig's length.

Like Trinity says, it is intution. Something you know deep inside without hesitation. I was born female with an enlarged clitoris that doctors initially wanted to perform surgery on to "normalise" it. They decided against the surgery and as a result I thought I had a penis, believed I was a boy that just needed puberty to fix my bits to pee standing up. Not once did I ever really believe I was a girl. I tried many times but it felt forced, like I wws trying too hard to be something I was not.

When I discovered what transgender was, I sought to transition to become comfortable in my own skin. I initially identified as a man in the beginning, going as far as conforming to the ridiculous male stereotype. I later realised I didn't have to conform and later on, a relationship opened my eyes that I'm not a stereotypical cis-guy and I never will be. I also found I felt genderless and continue to feel that way today, I don't know what it means to be a man or a woman. I don't hold any personal definition of such things. They are alien concepts to me in terms of identity.

But in terms of physical body, male makes sense to me. I have very bad dysphoria when it comes to having the anatomy of a female. Feminine aspects, I don't mind, even enjoy but having female secondary sexual characteristics feel very wrong on my body.

Your perception of yourself will change over time. You aren't the same person you were 2 years ago and 2 years later, you will be different again. This comic may help, its a favourite of mine.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Nov 16, 2015 9:07:32 GMT 8 @rrr said:

Have you ever had times where you felt like you were convincing yourself one way or another? How do you sort out your true feelings from thoughts of what you think you should be feeling?

Happens all the time, in intervals, as a constant, it depends on just what it is I am thinking about.
I roll with it, it took some time to learn to be able to do this, but it isn't hard once you do.
I see it as the journey, these kinds of self checks mean I am on my journey, if they weren't there, I'd feel stagnant and confined to whatever the last ideas were.
Circumstances forced a lot of introspection that still goes on. I look forward to it, it is the things that going around the next corner, over the next hill are about.
It's always about the journey, the destination will be here soon enough.
When you step outside your comfort zone, it follows you, it is always a step back if you need to be there.
You'll never know unless you take the steps, ask the questions of yourself, the answers are there, that's the journey.
There is always another corner to go around, there is always more to know.
I rarely dwell very much on where I am anymore, I'm to busy looking ahead to see what is coming towards me, where I'm going.
It's the journey that's important, never the destination.

[Deleted]

A quick note on the self-image question, because what you wrote Jacey got me thinking.

I look feminine right now (but I wear androgynous clothing) and when I have been thinking of myself in my mind, when daydreaming for example, I've pictured myself as still feminine, but without all my perceived flaws - this isn't how I feel on the inside though, it's the image of someone I feel I need to be to be accepted and loved. That's how much I've been running away from myself.

I would say my true self is more of a feeling; the image is blurry right now, but it's in there somewhere. I guess right now, if I would picture myself, how I want to look in the future it's very androgynous; someone you would question if it is a man or a woman, because that is how I feel. I don't feel like a woman and I don't feel like a man, but I feel like both at the same time - truly in between.

I don't know how I feel about my body, I have self-esteem issues that are not connected to my gender-issues, and I think that I can be ok with my body without having to go through any transition as long as I fix my self-esteem problems. I think I can land in being a non-binary person in a female body that presents in an androgynous way. Does that make sense?

[EchelonHunt]

Nov 16, 2015 23:35:00 GMT 8 Lee said:

I think I can land in being a non-binary person in a female body that presents in an androgynous way. Does that make sense?

Yep, that makes perfect sense There are quite a lot of assigned-female-at-birth (AFAB for short) non-binary folks who present androgynously with little desire to transition. Ruby Rose is one example.

But if your thoughts veer towards transition, that is OK too. Not transitioning or transitioning doesn't make you any less transgender, any less who you are or any less what you identify/present as.

[Deleted]

Nov 17, 2015 0:18:39 GMT 8 EchelonHunt said:

Not transitioning or transitioning doesn't make you any less transgender, any less who you are or any less what you identify/present as.

It can be a little confusing, not knowing much about this yet. I definitely identify as trans, that I am sure of and even without transitioning that wouldn't change. I would still tell people I am trans and change my name to a gender neutral one. This is very interesting, it feels like I'm delving into essentially what it means to be human; all these societal constructions and individual expressions. 

[Deleted]

Damn Jayce. You just had to bring up the Rubic's Cube. I never got that shit figured out. Even with a book.

But triple "r". I personally don't think you have to convince yourself. You are who and what you are. You are a transgendered human being it sounds like to me at least. To me it was harder trying to convince myself that I could be cis. I gave that up right away. That shit sucked.

There is a difference between cross dressing or a transvestite and transsexual that feels normal dressed feminine or practices feminine beauty regimens. I fell more comfortable in feminine clothing, long hair, smooth skin and makeup. It is not to relieve stress like cross dressing does. It don't turn me on to wear skirts and heels with a nice blouse and wearing full on makeup. It makes me feel normal. Hell the first time I put on a bra and panties, it did in no way turn me on. It just felt natural. Normal even. Like that is what I needed to wear. this was in my early teens and found an excuse to shave my legs. A doctor I convinced that I sweated way too much or hyperhidrosis suggested it.  Then it was the underarms and then everything else just followed. Yeah I was a manipulative little bitch back them.  Still am sometimes.

But if you are a cross dresser and use that as a means of escape or pleasure then you are still trans. For me it isn't a means of escape or pleasure because it is a pain in the ass to keep up with but something that just feels more natural to me. Pleasure to me, hell I hate shaving my legs and taking 40 minute showers to have smooth skin. But it feels normal to me. Hair? Damn. I just got the front cut into a fringe. Used to be that I just added gel and shook it like a dog, now I have to use a straightener to keep the bangs from being curly. Another pain in the ass but one I am willing to take. Again it just feel normal. Looks pretty good too.

Plucking brows seems like an everyday ordeal. Little tiny hairs seem to pop up overnight. But I love the shape of my brows and will pluck them everyday to keep the strays away. So all in all and hour and half to take a shower.

Oh and the bangs. Every two or three days I have to trim them and it's another pain in the ass and easy to mess up but. I am willing to do it. Why? I don't know it just feels natural and real.

For me the little time I tried to convince myself that I was a guy was way harder to me than to accept that I am transgender and more girl than boy other than genetalia.

[Deleted]

Thank you for the responses everyone. I meant to respond earlier but I fell asleep :-[

On the topic of self-image... I can relate to what Lee has said. My ideal is an androgynous body where one can't tell if I am man or woman. Though I also imagine my ideal self with male genitalia. Hmm.

Body dysphoria... I'm not sure whether or not I've experienced it. I often wish for male genitalia, right down to pretending to stroke my non-existent penis when I masturbate (sorry, TMI). For a while I was fatalistic about my body and thought I couldn't change it and I had to learn to be happy with my lot... Slowly, I'm beginning to think otherwise...

Ativan, thank you for your words. I wonder is there really ever a destination when it comes to these things? My journey is still just beginning... I'm not sure what to expect, but nothing ventured nothing gained, right? I will have to proactively explore myself.

Jamie and Trinity, yes I think you two are right that this 'convincing' thing is probably not the way to go about this. I'm not sure how to identify my honest feelings. I think I'm too worried about society or that people will reject me when I begin to express my true self. Though, the ones who would reject me I probably shouldn't miss.

There is a part of me that wonders how much of me being okay with my current body is due to numbness. People also pronounce my given name incorrectly (no one outside my family has ever pronounced it right). At first I tried to correct people but now I've given up and even introduce myself with a mispronounced name. It's easier than trying to explain. I wonder if I've fallen into this same trap with my gender, thinking "It's easier to let them assume my gender than try to express who I really am." I feel that at some point I gave up trying to express gender... but now for some reason I can't continue living as I've been doing. This is probably a good change despite the anxiety that comes along...

[Deleted]

Nov 17, 2015 6:46:46 GMT 8 @rrr said:

Thank you for the responses everyone. I meant to respond earlier but I fell asleep :-[

On the topic of self-image... I can relate to what Lee has said. My ideal is an androgynous body where one can't tell if I am man or woman. Though I also imagine my ideal self with male genitalia. Hmm.

Body dysphoria... I'm not sure whether or not I've experienced it. I often wish for male genitalia, right down to pretending to stroke my non-existent penis when I masturbate (sorry, TMI). For a while I was fatalistic about my body and thought I couldn't change it and I had to learn to be happy with my lot... Slowly, I'm beginning to think otherwise...

Ativan, thank you for your words. I wonder is there really ever a destination when it comes to these things? My journey is still just beginning... I'm not sure what to expect, but nothing ventured nothing gained, right? I will have to proactively explore myself.

Jamie and Trinity, yes I think you two are right that this 'convincing' thing is probably not the way to go about this. I'm not sure how to identify my honest feelings. I think I'm too worried about society or that people will reject me when I begin to express my true self. Though, the ones who would reject me I probably shouldn't miss.

There is a part of me that wonders how much of me being okay with my current body is due to numbness. People also pronounce my given name incorrectly (no one outside my family has ever pronounced it right). At first I tried to correct people but now I've given up and even introduce myself with a mispronounced name. It's easier than trying to explain. I wonder if I've fallen into this same trap with my gender, thinking "It's easier to let them assume my gender than try to express who I really am." I feel that at some point I gave up trying to express gender... but now for some reason I can't continue living as I've been doing. This is probably a good change despite the anxiety that comes along...

You know rrr. Personally I don't think you really need to convince yourself of who you really are. I think we all have to accept who we are though. Usually the convincing goes the other way. We try to convince ourselves that we are or can be cis. Usually we fail miserable at it and some have even ended their precious lives too soon over it.

As for having GID. I don't suffer from it too much. Hell most times around 95 percent I could care less if I have a penis or a vagina. I would still rather have a vagina but having an outie instead of an innie don't bother me too much. Not too much information. We have all done things that seemed more "normal" for us.

Yes. The ones that will reject you you should not even give a second thought to. Let them go and live in their own little narrow world. A lot of you closest friends prolly already have an idea and won't care. If they do then they are not you true friends.

As for the last paragraph Triple r, let them assume. People are gonna' wanna' see what they wanna' see or assume what they want to assume. The only ones that you need to be honest with first and foremost is yourself and the second is your potential lovers. Other than that, no one else has to live your life or accept you other than you and the one you love.

[Deleted]

I get that you would question your feelings regarding this, it's very confusing trying to sort these things out. For me, no matter how confused I can get at times, I always have this sense of my true self somewhere inside. It has been and still is hidden behind all of this crap I've been told (and have told myself) throughout my life of who I need to be to be accepted and loved and to matter as a human being.

Like Jamie said, we've spent so much time trying to convince ourselves that we are cis. I'm tired of it. I just want to let go and let it be. Life is short and I want to be all of me. Some days I feel strong enough, others I just want to hide again. One step at a time and eventually we'll figure things out.

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2015 5:26:50 GMT 8 Lee said:

I get that you would question your feelings regarding this, it's very confusing trying to sort these things out. For me, no matter how confused I can get at times, I always have this sense of my true self somewhere inside. It has been and still is hidden behind all of this crap I've been told (and have told myself) throughout my life of who I need to be to be accepted and loved and to matter as a human being.

Like Jamie said, we've spent so much time trying to convince ourselves that we are cis. I'm tired of it. I just want to let go and let it be. Life is short and I want to be all of me. Some days I feel strong enough, others I just want to hide again. One step at a time and eventually we'll figure things out.

After 40 some odd years, I still feel the same way.

This isn't something that will go away though. Not for us or anyone else. Everyone feels small and wants to hide at times. Cis included. This is just another reaffirmation that we are just normal people.

Sometimes lee, the toughest person that we can face is ourselves. Sometimes the hardest person to accept who they really are is ourselves.

[Deleted]

Nov 18, 2015 5:54:41 GMT 8 @jamie said:

Nov 18, 2015 5:26:50 GMT 8 Lee said:

I get that you would question your feelings regarding this, it's very confusing trying to sort these things out. For me, no matter how confused I can get at times, I always have this sense of my true self somewhere inside. It has been and still is hidden behind all of this crap I've been told (and have told myself) throughout my life of who I need to be to be accepted and loved and to matter as a human being.

Like Jamie said, we've spent so much time trying to convince ourselves that we are cis. I'm tired of it. I just want to let go and let it be. Life is short and I want to be all of me. Some days I feel strong enough, others I just want to hide again. One step at a time and eventually we'll figure things out.

After 40 some odd years, I still feel the same way.

This isn't something that will go away though. Not for us or anyone else. Everyone feels small and wants to hide at times. Cis included. This is just another reaffirmation that we are just normal people.

Sometimes lee, the toughest person that we can face is ourselves. Sometimes the hardest person to accept who they really are is ourselves.

So true. We need to learn to be more kind to ourselves, hard as it might be. 

Right now I need to surround myself with other trans people, to see our uniqueness so that I can appreciate being different and not hate myself for it. I've felt like an alien for so long and I guess much of it was just me alienating myself from Me. We're all human and we all struggle and for me it's been important to find other humans that have had a similar journey; that have walked the path and know what it's all about. So, yes, it is about banding together. Not in Us vs Them, but in Us finding strength in each other. I don't know if I'm making any sense... 

[Trinity]

Totally

[Deleted]

Nov 16, 2015 10:29:18 GMT 8 Trinity said:

You can be gender free and not change anything, but you will be aware you are outside the constructs, the rules that don't apply to you anyway, because your mind is freed.

I think I'm beginning to understand what you meant by this, Trinity. I came out to a good friend yesterday. I couldn't bear continuing the facade, pretending I was purely my assigned gender at birth. I had to let at least one person know... an attempt to feel less isolated and deceptive. She was very accepting. And today, nothing has changed except to one person I confessed my true feelings about myself. I have a little more confidence that someday I can be open about expressing my gender....

I think I grow more sure of myself by the day.

Nov 18, 2015 5:06:47 GMT 8 @jamie said:

You know rrr. Personally I don't think you really need to convince yourself of who you really are. I think we all have to accept who we are though. Usually the convincing goes the other way. We try to convince ourselves that we are or can be cis. Usually we fail miserable at it and some have even ended their precious lives too soon over it.

Yes, I think you're right. This is strange to me because for the longest time I didn't care about being a man or a woman. I already accepted myself as just myself, I already knew. I don't know at what point I stopped accepting myself and started trying to cram myself into my assigned gender role. And then I remembered that I was already fine with myself before and had to wonder why the hell I was trying to change myself in the first place...