Psychological Androgyny - Androgyneity

[Ayla]

"I have used the word androgyneity to describe the psychological androgyny of androgynes in order to differentiate psychological androgyny (which is a subjective state or sense of identity) from androgyny on its own, because on its own, the word androgyny can and often does imply fashion and physical aspects rather than gender identity.

There are far too many androgynes (myself, for instance) who do not appear to be outwardly androgynous, and it is painful for us to have to have to (try to) explain how it is that we can be and are androgyne without having an obvious androgynous appearance. For a relatively thorough explanation of androgynes and their androgyneity, I suggest visiting the main Androgyne Online page at androgyne.0catch.com, if you haven't already.

Just as all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares, all androgynes are (psychologically) androgynous but not all androgynous(-looking) people are androgynes.
-- Stephe, May 27, 2013"

 I think that Stephe makes a good point.  For non binaries who identify as androgyne the need to present, to be understood and to be identified as androgyne really seems to vary by individual, by situation and over time.  I am finding that I cannot restrict my focus to the enjoyment of androgyneity (psychological androgyny).  At first this was almost enough, but not any more.  I am seeking the means and the confidence to project and to be seen and understood as androgyne.

Am I unusual?

Safe travels


Aisla

[Deleted]

On a parallel mtf path it makes sense. Isn't expressing your core outwardly just as important as internal validation?

Do we stealth because we wish to protect our cores from harm by the ignorant and socially programmed innocents?

It's natural to express gender with flair and passion. Isn't it our right, assuming collateral damage is not the result?

It is a factor, creating collateral damage does not make one happy.

Hmmm.
Trinity

[EchelonHunt]

You are not unusual at all.

Even though my physical body is quite androgynous (especially my face most of all)... I still experience androgyn(eit)y on a deeper level, at the core of myself.

My heart goes out for androgyne folks who do not have androgynous presentation. Stereotypes are awful. I desire a femandro presentation, an andro male body to house my genderless within genderfluidity core.

The physical, the emotional, the inner core... they all have to sparkle together. If one is dulled, the rest pale in comparison and don't quite shine as brightly. I hope that with surgery and time, I will be able to shine a bit more brightly than before... The emotional and inner core have been the happiest than ever possible in years,... just have to progress on the physical aspect... hence transitioning to me!

[Deleted]

No Aisla, you are not unusual. Sometimes it's never enough. Sometimes pushing the envelope a little farther is purely natural.

Personally I think doing little things a little bit at a time and getting used to them before pushing on makes us more confident. And that confidence makes us want to go a little farther.

[Deleted]

There are times that I push the envelope as you say just because that's how I feel for the day and there's other times when I just present as an average looking man. In either event my outward appearance is never what defines me. 

[Deleted]

Dec 16, 2014 22:34:14 GMT 8 Shan said:

There are times that I push the envelope as you say just because that's how I feel for the day and there's other times when I just present as an average looking man. In either event my outward appearance is never what defines me. 

Well Shan. I can present as a guy but there is nothing that is average about it. Especially with hair that is about a third of the way down my back and curly. I kind of stand out. But no, outward appearance in no way should define anyone. Some things help with dysphoria and my hair is definately a crutch. Along with some other things but I don't let those things define me. Helps me feel better for sure about myself and self expression though.

[Whisper]

90% feel the need to present either androgynous or opposite birth sex.
Definately not alone. Stephe is 1 of the 10%.

[Edge]

Dec 16, 2014 19:41:02 GMT 8 EchelonHunt said:

My heart goes out for androgyne folks who do not have androgynous presentation. Stereotypes are awful.

Wouldn't the requirement of and feeling sorry for androgynes who don't present androgynously be forcing a stereotype on androgynes though? If there is a woman who likes to have a "masculine" presentation or a man who likes to have a "feminine" presentation or either who like to have an androgynous presentation, should one feel sorry for them for presenting how they want? Why would it be any different for androgynes who like to present in a way that's not androgynous?

Personally, I like the presentation I have. The things I would change if I could are more personality revealing than gender revealing. But then, I'm a metalhead. In terms of stereotypes, that already has the mix I want and like.

[EchelonHunt]

Dec 18, 2014 23:05:43 GMT 8 Edge said:

Dec 16, 2014 19:41:02 GMT 8 EchelonHunt said:

My heart goes out for androgyne folks who do not have androgynous presentation. Stereotypes are awful.

Wouldn't the requirement of and feeling sorry for androgynes who don't present androgynously be forcing a stereotype on androgynes though? If there is a woman who likes to have a "masculine" presentation or a man who likes to have a "feminine" presentation or either who like to have an androgynous presentation, should one feel sorry for them for presenting how they want? Why would it be any different for androgynes who like to present in a way that's not androgynous?

Personally, I like the presentation I have. The things I would change if I could are more personality revealing than gender revealing. But then, I'm a metalhead. In terms of stereotypes, that already has the mix I want and like.

I don't feel sorry for them, I understand their struggle (that Stephe wrote and Aisla quoted for discussion) and I wasn't thinking of feminine men or masculine women when I wrote that as I consider them, generally speaking, to be fairly androgynous in appearance, but that's my personal opinion.

When I spoke of androgynes without androgynous presentation, I thought of male-bodied or female-bodied androgynes presenting as male or female in terms of appearance and clothing. I can certainly see them getting their androgyne identities invalidated because they don't "look androgynous". I sympathize in that I understand their struggle because in a similar but different vein, I had my male identity invalidated because I wasn't "masculine enough" or "too girly". I guess empathic would have been a better word.

Hope this clears things up

I agree, if I could make my presentation more personality revealing I would do it too.

[Edge]

Ah. So your heart goes out to people who's identities are invalidated because people confuse presentation with gender. Did I get it right?
Me too. I don't get why it's so difficult for people to understand.