All that "cis hate" rhetoric

[Deleted]

So tired of the cis hate coming from the trans community. It’s not “cis people”, it’s hateful people, and bigoted people, and hostile people. It’s not a very smart move towards equality and inclusion when you say “cis people” even if you don’t mean all of them. It’s basic psychology. What is it with the Left and this obsession with guilt by association?

If five out of 100 cis people do us wrong, the other 95 people get thrown in just for being cis. Generalising is not how we solve problems. Solving problems actually takes work and critical thinking skills. You don’t see a mathematician write down “x=100″ and then expect the answer to shit out the equation on its own, but that’s how we seem to approach life issues. We throw down a blanket statement and then think magical fairies will come along and make the world suddenly read minds and know better.

I swear, I am surrounded by kindergarteners. I will not play this us-and-them game.

[Ativan Prescribed]

This is so true, there are more cis who are supportive than there are bigots out there.

[Deleted]

May 29, 2015 10:18:10 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

This is so true, there are more cis who are supportive than there are bigots out there.

I think some of these people fail to realise that most gay and lesbian people are cisgender. They are probably only thinking of straight cis people. I also think most of these people are under the age of 30, if not teenagers. Their reasons are justified, but they aren't addressing the issue very maturely.

[EchelonHunt]

I agree one hundred percent. It is like letting a bad experience with one guy taint your perception of all men, or vice versa for those who had bad experiences with women.

For example, significant others are constantly treated as if they are the enemy. This does not help our trans community in any way to be vindictive towards SOs of transgender individuals. They are fed lines of "If you really love them, you would love them irregardless of what genitals they have" which is demeaning because it doesn't take into account that some people just cannot help their sexual attraction. For some, sexual orientation is directly linked to their romantic orientation, they are attracted to men, fall in love with a man and when that ideal crumbles to ashes before their very eyes... I can sympathise with them that it is not easy. SOs need support and compassion just as much as we give our transgender friends.

I hope one day that SOs feel safe enough to voice their feelings without getting slammed by the trans community for being "selfish" or whatever descriptive words people like to put others down with.

[Sisyphus]

Perhaps what they are really referring to is cisnormativity? Which, unfortunately, even supporters or trans/non-binary people can be blinded by due to internalisation of a world for the most part built for and by cis-people in a very exclusionary, sometimes to the point of violence, manner.

Sweeping generalizations in general are rarely ideal, but I think that sometimes when they occur, there is a part of it that is an attempt to go at the underlying imbalanced power structure rather than a class of people themselves.

[Kira]

May 29, 2015 9:57:28 GMT 8 @illuminess said:

It’s not a very smart move towards equality and inclusion when you say “cis people” even if you don’t mean all of them.

What is it with the Left and this obsession with guilt by association?

Surely you don't mean alllllll of the left do you?

I mean, I consider myself to be fairly left wing, and I don't demonise cis people. I love them!  I think you are falling into the same trap that you are pointing out aren't you? Or am I missing something?

[Deleted]

May 30, 2015 23:56:16 GMT 8 Kira said:

May 29, 2015 9:57:28 GMT 8 @illuminess said:

It’s not a very smart move towards equality and inclusion when you say “cis people” even if you don’t mean all of them.

What is it with the Left and this obsession with guilt by association?

Surely you don't mean alllllll of the left do you?

I mean, I consider myself to be fairly left wing, and I don't demonise cis people. I love them!  I think you are falling into the same trap that you are pointing out aren't you? Or am I missing something?

Of course not. Just the "progressive" Left.

[Edge]

I'm left wing and under thirty and I like cis people (as much as any other demographic anyway). Most of my friends and my most supportive allies are cis people. Many of them are also straight. Often, these friends of mine understand me better and are more accepting of me than other trans and queer people, so it bothers me when people complain about "cis people" or "straight people."
But it also bothers me when people complain about "the left" because I and many of my friends are left wing and we're not the way the people who complain about us describe. I've also heard cis hate coming from older people, so blaming younger people for it isn't exactly fair either.

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2015 14:35:05 GMT 8 Edge said:

I'm left wing and under thirty and I like cis people (as much as any other demographic anyway). Most of my friends and my most supportive allies are cis people. Many of them are also straight. Often, these friends of mine understand me better and are more accepting of me than other trans and queer people, so it bothers me when people complain about "cis people" or "straight people."
But it also bothers me when people complain about "the left" because I and many of my friends are left wing and we're not the way the people who complain about us describe. I've also heard cis hate coming from older people, so blaming younger people for it isn't exactly fair either.

I know, but both the Left and the Right have their problems. It's just more likely that those who are dishing out the cis hate consider themselves Liberal. Conservatives are more likely to just outright condemn trans people, mainly because of their religious bias. I don't consider myself Liberal or Conservative. Groupthink is unhealthy and nonproductive. I have liberal views, conservative views, and views that would annoy both parties equally. So, when I criticise political parties it's from outside of that paradigm. Not every liberal or every conservative behaves like rabid dogs, but they are fewer and further between.

[Edge]

Ah I see. I prefer the NDP myself. Liberals are better than Conservatives I guess, but it's the NDP that seem to care about the people and the environment.

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2015 22:01:13 GMT 8 Edge said:

Ah I see. I prefer the NDP myself. Liberals are better than Conservatives I guess, but it's the NDP that seem to care about the people and the environment.

I honestly don't know anything about the New Democratic Party. My views, if you can call them "political" are more in line with a Meritocratic/Platonian system where all nepotism and cronyism are eradicated; discrimination of any race, sex, creed, gender or orientation is eradicated; inheritance wealth is taxed 100% after $1 million and returned to funding education, science and health care; and the state is compiled of a council of properly trained and educated representatives; no presidents, prime ministers or monarchies.

Everyone is given equal opportunity and encouraged through easy accessible education and training. The highest rewards for the highest achievers. Those who are disabled, whether physically, mentally, or due to old age will be the only people eligible to receive government financial support. This particular societal structure and system would be designed to ensure that everyone is capable of taking care of themselves until they are simply unable to.

No more religious bias, either. This society would be wholly secular as spiritual and religious matters should be private matters. No more political paradigm humdrum; no more "debates" on what is or isn't morally acceptable as morality is not a relative matter.

There's more to it than all that, but you can research it by Googling "the meritocracy party", or "the meritocracy movement". I don't have all the answers, and it would take me writing a novel to go into them. Look into it. If it's not your cup of tea, no big deal. It's just good to know that there are alternatives out there that aren't wholly capitalistic or communistic in nature.

[Edge]

Heh. So you're pretty left wing yourself.

[Deleted]

Jun 2, 2015 23:22:18 GMT 8 Edge said:

Heh. So you're pretty left wing yourself.

I don't like to identify that way because of how much I am annoyed by the behavior of many people on the Left, but I also have plenty of Right-wing views; mainly regarding economy, self-sovereignty and private property. I'm all over the place.