Plethora of non-binary friends

[Edge]

I've got a bit of an odd problem. Or maybe it's not a problem. I don't know.

I seem to have an oddly large number of non-binary friends. Seriously, there are at least five I talk to (and one I don't because his crush on me got awkward). Pronouns and gendered words are as they use them.

One of them is my boyfriend, but so far I have no idea if he considers himself non-binary because all he's told me is that he would be happy either way. His roommate referred to him as non-binary, but she's... well, she's kind of gung-ho about this kind of stuff and I wonder if she's putting a label to him that he didn't choose for himself. Or maybe he trusted her with his identity and not me in which case, ouch. (I wouldn't mind if he had told his close friends and not me, but he hasn't known her that well much longer than he's known me.) I want to ask, but he doesn't really seem to care and I worry that it's none of my business. Should I ask? If so, how do I ask?

Another problem (or maybe this is a rant) is that the gung-ho roommate, who identifies as genderfluid, is kind of insensitive to trans issues. She's writing a paper about what non-binary people face in our province, but never bothered to talk to any non-binary people other than herself, her girlfriend, and my boyfriend. All of which are mostly closeted and non-transitioning which is fine, but she didn't bother to ask another non-binary person who works at our university, is out, is transitioning, and has experienced things as a non-binary person in our province that they haven't. She sent around a survey to get opinions about gender variance and on the first page, the gender options were "man," "woman," "trans man," "trans woman," and "other." Before I knew it was her who made the survey, I went on a rant about how offensive that is because it's like saying that trans men and women aren't "real" men and women, but she told me it was hers and then defended it by saying that "no one would know who was trans." That wasn't even the point I was making. Then I accidentally kept calling my non-binary friend "she" by accident (in my defence, I got used to calling them "she" for quite awhile. I'm usually pretty good at pronouns otherwise), so I came off like the insensitive one. Long story short, I don't know how to talk to this person about trans and gender issues. She's all tumblr and rainbows and I'm all science and info.

Er... sorry for the derailing rant. Here's the problem that's really bugging me at the moment:
I'm out as a trans man. Which is great since I am a man and I am transitioning to look like the man I am. But I have been keeping my genderfluidity secret because I'm afraid of people assuming it somehow makes me less of a man (I'm not) and/or getting gender confused with stereotypes and thinking that means I'm effeminate (my personality is about the same regardless of gender and female me is actually pretty masculine). For the past while, I've been happy with people assuming I'm a binary man. But now I'm wondering. What if I do want to tell them the truth about me? (Although I have no idea why.) Would they think I'm just pretending to be non-binary to be like them? (I'm not. I was long before I met them.)

[Anato]

Its way more likely that his room mate put the label on him herself. A lot of people do that. They think that when someone doesn't choose a label they just have to have one and it drives them crazy so they apply one for the heck of it. You should be able to ask though. I mean, they're your boyfriend. You two should be able to have deeper conversations. Unless you two just started to date, in which case I'd wait it out and let them come out to you when they're ready.

And Lol! Tumblr and rainbows. I like that.

I personally wouldn't bother with such a person. She sounds unreasonable, and talking to her will probably just cause headaches. Being out is another story. My situation is similar but from the opposite site of the spectrum. Publicly I tell people I'm female, and present as a bem (butch/fem). I don't tell people about my gender-fluid feelings, because I have no idea how they'll react. And the last thing I need is that unnecessary drama right now. If someone asks me why I present as a dude on some days I will probably tell them I'm either just a bem (which isn't really a lie, just not the whole truth) or simply that I like presenting the way that I do. If they ask me why I like it I'll just tell em the truth "Because I do." It'll be so awkward.

[Edge]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. We've been dating five months now and, really, I'd rather wait until we both feel comfortable talking about it.
I am not a fan of tumblr. That may not be fair since I never go on it, but I hear things that I'm not too impressed by.
Normally, I wouldn't, but she's my boyfriend's roommate and I am over there one to three days/nights a week. I don't think I'm going to bring up any trans topics around her though unless there's a reason to. I'm certainly not going to tell her about me.
Funny thing is, I also present the same no matter what gender I am. There is literally no reason for anyone to know there's more to my gender aside from just wanting them to know me.

[Anato]

Yeah five months isn't too long. Just have fun and let things unfold. And your not missin out on anything with tumblr. Just a buncha tweeners being nasty to eachother. Its gross.

She sounds like the kind of person you should talk to only if you feel like getting into a fight for shits and giggles. I mean that can be fun, but who has the time or energy for that on a regular basis?

Well then people just dont need to be told about the trans aspect of you. All they gotta know are your pronouns.

[Deleted]

Eh. I'd just let her think whatever she's going to think. She doesn't sound like someone who is very open to the possibility of being wrong or to expanding her knowledge. I think your description of her as "tumblr" is very apt. A lot of folks there seem to only care about inclusiveness and LGBT education when it relates to them, specifically.

That's just me, though. I'm usually the type to take a pass on trying to change people's perceptions if they don't seem open to it. I figure I've got enough problems without the added headache that would bring me.

No advice on asking your boyfriend if he/they are non-binary. I guess if he feels it is important to him, he'll tell you on his own. His friend has probably just saddled him with the label, or maybe it came up in conversation with her and he chose to identify with it then, but it's not something that's a big deal to him.

[Leki]

I Dont get why it needs to be secret, we should all be open and free (:

[Taka]

i think in edge's case it would be easier to only share the fluidity with a few trusted friends. and definitely not anyone who has skewed view on non-binary. suddenly he'd be criticized for never presenting femme...

you could ask your boyfriend if he told that friend he's nb because she keeps saying it.
i'd wonder too if someone's friends kept calling someone something that they never asked me to call them.

[Edge]

Nov 30, 2014 17:37:19 GMT 8 Taka said:

i think in edge's case it would be easier to only share the fluidity with a few trusted friends. and definitely not anyone who has skewed view on non-binary. suddenly he'd be criticized for never presenting femme...

^ This. I don't think I'd be criticized for never presenting femme, but I do think that if I ever pass well enough to wear a man skirt, people will assume I'm presenting femme even though, to me, it's not feminine and I've always wanted to wear a long skirt as a man because I like the look. Mostly, I think people will get my gender confused with gender stereotypes (which I find insulting) and/or think it makes me less of a man. I worry about even the non-binary people treating me differently (no offence), but I probably have nothing to be worried about because, so far, the only person in rl I've told still saw me as very masculine.
It's not something that affects anything or that anyone really needs to know.

With my boyfriend, I think I'll just leave it for now. We'll tell each other when we're ready. In either case, I don't really think it affects anything anyway since we're both the same people regardless.

[Edge]

Actually, it has nothing to do with presentation and stops at non-binary identification and acceptance. Presentation has nothing to do with gender.
I do, however, have a lot of problems with people assuming presentation is gender and me getting extremely angry and frustrated with them.

So update: My boyfriend accepts me as trans (obviously) and sees me as a man as I want (that's how he worded it), but has trouble so much as imagining me as the "sexy lady" I used to present as. He's also confused as to what non-binary actually means. There's no way he'd understand this. Oh well.

[Deleted]

OK so I am going to put it bluntly. If someone wants to be friends, they are gonna be your friend. They will probably already know. Friends are indeed special and true ones will accept you no matter what. We are usually drawn to those most like us so it make sense. Call it all the usual things such ESP, Souls gathering, or a thousand other things. Just be a friend and you will have plenty of friends. Just be you and who don't like you or want to be friends won't be and never let it bother you. WHo will want to be friends with you is a true friend without all the other BS.

My opinion? It's never a problem having friends that accept you. 

[Deleted]

Tumblr can be ridiculous, but some good stuff comes out of it. But yeah tumblr and rainbows. It does sound like she's busy policing other people's identities without even realising it which is funny because she'd scream a blue fit if anyone did that to her.

i'm totally with you about trans man and trans woman boxes implying that they are not the same as man and woman. Far better to have an additional question along the lines of "is your current gender identity congruent with the one assigned at birth?"

[Edge]

Yeah apparently, my boyfriend has been having the same problem with her and she was just putting a label on him that he didn't choose himself.
It came up in conversation. Turns out, he does accept my fluididity and I now know more about his stuff.