transforming children outside the binary

[danishcouple]

Our group 2sprit, who is an group of adults who are transformed outside the binairy, to have the third gender by hormones only, are some of us also parents of young children.

These children are growing up from out of birth outside the binairy and are treated as they have the third gender too.

In our group is it a standard now, when our children reaches the age of 12 and their puberty starts, we also starting inject them with hormones of the opposite binair gender so that they come in side puberty of both binair genders, so that their body's will grow outside the binairy and they wil also have the third gender.

As group we believe that our children have the feature, and to transforming our children to come inside the third gender, the third gender wil stay a life and not fade out , because there's not more people who will transforming.

What are your thoughts about this?

[Ativan Prescribed]

I think it needs to be up to the child to decide what they want to do.

[Trinity]

Touchy subject.

My own belief is that it is up to the young ones to determine what direction they need to go with their gender. Most of us are born knowing we are different and going in another direction.

Questions of social constructs vs the core of the person arise, I would hate to trade one social construct for another.

For me, its actually none of my business, its a personal and a parenting choice, half the problem we have in the states right now is other people outside the family unit interfering with choices that are needed for their kids, usually binary trans scenarios I think but could easily be NB, dysphoria is what it is, born in gender is what it is.

Here's the thing. I would not personally, and I am speaking only for myself, not saying this is what anyone should or should not do, but I personally would not put my own rules onto the kids. It comes down to them and what they need.

It poses an interesting question that I have never considered though, which is how would I react if one of my own kids was trans or nonbinary?

And in that case, I would love them, and support their needs.

I did not get the necessary support when I was a kid with this, nobody knew what to do with it back in the 1960s and early 70's, they were still doing shock therapy to try to cure people of being gay or trans. But had I been raised differently there is a very good chance I would have been a binary trans female transitioning very young. Yet that would have had its own difficulties because my spirit is not of the binary either, its a physical thing with me, a lot of it anyway, its so hard to explain it.

So those are my thoughts, just personal stuff. As a parent we help the kids find who they are and support them. We pass on our values to them as well. We try to equip them to make it in the world. We try to meet their needs.

There are cultural differences I think as well, between here and across the water where you are. Different laws, different acceptance.

I'd be watching the kids to see what they want. Mine are binary cis, and seem happy to be that way, so that is what I support for them, what they want to do.

So that's just me. How I handle it or see it.

These are family decisions, I wouldn't want anyone interfering with mine, so I certainly would not interfere with theirs. Nor have anyone interfere with my kids or grandkids.

Hugs.

[danishcouple]

it's a tricky subject we know.

But the philosophy of our group is that non binairy / the third gender will only survive to educate and transforming our younger generations.

And our children are used to it from out of their birth to see people who are transformd to become the third gender, they see born females on testosterone have a hairy chest and beards, born males with breasts even they are living outside the binairy by wearing clothing of both binair genders and so on.

And we think it's not strange to take our children with us inside this and give them hormones of their opposite gender too to have a double puberty wat wil give them the third gender.

That's why we decided for our child to get hen on hormones too , as we al did , so that han grow together with us out side the binairy.

[Leena]

Not everyone is nonbinary. Forcing it on kids doesn't seem any better than forcing trans and nonbinary kids to live as their AGAB. What might happen if larger society was like that and a kid was binary really reminds me a lot of The Outcast episode of Star Trek:The Next Generation.

I was forced to live as my AGAB as a kid, and while what you are doing might have been better than that for me, I still likely would have rather wanted a more binary transition. I'm also pretty sure most cis people would have hated it.

[Ativan Prescribed]

It has to be a decision that the children themselves make, if you are telling them they must do this, then it is wrong.
Children become gender aware at an early age, let them decide for themselves and if they do use blockers, should they change their minds it needs to be their decision, not the parents.
If NB is to survive it needs to be on each persons own terms, not something they are forced into, they are capable of making this kind of decision.
By the same token, parents need to respect their children's wishes to be called a gender they want and to take blockers if that is what they want to do.
None of this should be taken lightly, had more parents done this with their kids and let them know it is a possibility, there wouldn't be the controversy surrounding it.
Gender is not the end all of things for people, it is inherently a very small part of a persons existence and as such, allowing children to make this their decision is what's important, regardless.

[Ativan Prescribed]

It's just fine for kids to grow up in a NB household, that isn't going to affect them in any negative ways, but if its forced on them, then it is no different than if they are NB and are forced to live in a binary household that forces them to be binary.
Let them decide and if they are like a lot of kids, most kids in fact, they will change their minds about everything every few months or so.
I have two kids and they have a strictly binary mother who goes through life with a stick up her ass about most everything and she forced her will on them both, I simply told them they can be whoever they wished to be, that there was nothing they could do to keep my from loving them unconditionally and thats a key word there.
Unconditional support and love for your children is what they need the most, they will develop their own ideologies that will carry them forward, to subvert that is just stunting them socially.
One of my kids is conservative in nature, hangs with a conservative crowd but isn't radical right, the other one is more left leaning and uses they/them pronouns and lists their gender as NB, I said good on you for that and that I'm more than ok with it, but if there is going to be more discussed, it will be because they bring it up.
It isn't a parents place to decide for their kids what they are going to do or be when it comes to gender, thats an inherent thing that comes from the inside, give them more than enough room and they will be much more settled on their decisions, you can't force gender on to a kid.
In fact trying to make their world strictly NB is going to be dangling the what ifs about binary in front of them and not letting them explore that option, and its a child's job to explore and learn, so make all aspects and facets of things available to them, you can give your opinions but you can't say this is right or wrong when it comes to gender and really just a shitload of things, best thing you can do is to help them explore as they see fit by giving them opportunity and to always always help them learn more so they can be and use their full potential.
All in all gender is just one aspect in life, and not all that important of one, there are so many things that are much more important, why clog up their minds with gender when there is far more important things you need to let them learn and for you to teach them, you want the best for them, not the best for you.

[nyx]

hey there,

i think it is a great thing to raise children in an environment that doesnt force the binary on them. when they get out to school or work, society does put enough pressure on people...
it is also a great think that you found your way to live happily aside the binary and that it works for you to do it this specific way, taking hormones and developing an androgynous body.
but this is only one way to go, and there are so many others ways that are fine too. for you it might be true that non-binary is a third gender. i see it more as an umbrella term for a vast variety of genders. some people are non-binary and don't take any hormones because they feel at home in their bodies how they are. some feel better in a body that resembles the opposite of their assigned gender, so they change to that direction. sometimes surgery is needed, sometimes it is not needed but desired, and thats ok. and there are many other options between those and beyond - some might identify as genderless or any other gender we cant describe with the terms that are commonly used for gender. all these ways to experience gender are true for some people, and they are valid like this. so to me, its not like there is female, male and non-binary but rather a universe full of genders, and the key to live freely is not to categorize them all but to connect and celebrate all the different colours of it. even the two genders we call binary could be part of that universe, just that they wont be binary genders anymore if you start looking at it in a radical non-binary way. i mean, the only problem with female and male genders is that they are forced upon us as a binary thing, but if there is no binary, those two can have their place among all the others. that would be liberating for all people (and i hope that one day they will understand this).

that said, i think deciding for a 12 year old which gender or body type they are to have is problematic because it might turn out they dont feel the same as you. if you want your child to be free from gender boundaries, maybe give them blockers so they can decide for themself when theyre ready?
in my opinion, medical treatments like hormone therapy or surgery are only good if they make people feel more at home in their bodies.

plus, i dont think that non-binary will fade out, there have always been non-binary people and there always will be, because as i said, there are lots of gender experiences, and the only reason they are not that visible is that the binary tries its best to hide them. people are colourful creatures, even though some dont admit it yet.

[Trinity]

We spend so much time learning how to find the core of who we are, the core of our gender and how it feels, and then and only then do we make the physical changes that bring us in harmony with who we really are.

Only we know what we feel in the core, and there can be deception, and a desire to fit in, to please our beloved parents, so much pressure we feel to change to be loved by others, to be accepted. And at a young age to be brave enough to live our truth is no small achievement.

If the kids come and express that need to transition, if they are living their lives as nb or trans and that is who they are and they know it, then we have to support that basic need.

That is the question and the forum's reaction here, its whether the choice was made by the adults, or by the children, for them to be physically nonbinary. The consensus in this forum and culture is the decision is made by the children, with medical support. And in the states that involves both psyche, which I believe the original poster said they are trained in, and medical, based on the recomendations of psyche. And I support that.

Its hard to know the core of who we are and we often need help to quiet the worlds influence on our thoughts, what we call the Matrix here but what is comprised of the social construct as well as spiritual forces, some unseen, some seen, and peer pressure and pragmatic concerns about just how we are going to live our lives as who we are, visibly, invisibly, both....

The absolute necessity in my opinion as a person who did not transition until their mid 50's and have a huge amount of psychological pain as a result of that, as well as some benefits to balance the pain, but the absolute necessity is to live the truth of who we are, and we are the only ones, deep inside our heart, inside our gut, in our mind, to know that. That knowledge is the one where we think we are a way, and have total peace about it, no nagging concerns or thoughts that it could be something else.

And being trans or NB is compelling, for me, its borderline compulsion, dysphoria is pure agony, it can be unsurvivable, for me, it took a lot of help to live through it and all its repercusssions.

If there is gender uncertainty, blockers are a choice that can help. If there is certainty, go with that truth.

Do we have the right to craft and build another person's body? Yes if it alleviates pain, if it brings them into sinc with their personal true selves, wired as we are, its both medical and psychological, we know this about trans, its not just choices and appearence at all, its the core of who we are.

But if we are imposing our own self will on another persons body, any other persons body, that to me is one of the greatest sins of all and imprisons someone in a body not of their own choosing.

It all comes down to this. Is it their truth, who they really are, or is it who we want them to be?

Hard truths to speak, but in this forum, we speak what we believe without bs, we tell the truth and it sets us free.

I paid one terrible price in my life for being trans and the consequences that go with that. I would never ask anyone else to follow that path unless there was no other way. Nor would I ask anyone to follow the paths of self deception or living a lie, that contains just as much harm and is not sustainable over time, resulting in more changes later.

These are the concerns we share in this place.

Truth is everything, without any hint of self deception, or tragedy always follows. It's inevitable, in my opinion.

[Ativan Prescribed]

I'm not at war with the binary genders, I am at war with the social construct of gender as it is in most places, it's an illusion, a sham, the matrix.
The solution is to simply do away with the gender notion that there is the binary and nothing else, it's the same for race, very few people are totally this or that but are a mix of origin.
Racism is based on some idea that again is a social construct that says you are this if you are that, when people are simply people.
It's as unnecessary as counties borders, which had their uses in the past but mostly in the far past, in todays world, we communicate with people everywhere as if they lived next door, there is no reason to have declared borders that restrict the movement of people from place to place.
The true nature of racism is that ideology that you can't cross some imagined line, that you are restricted because you live over there, its the same thing with race, the real bottom line is that we are the human race and everything else is a social construct.
Gender is very much the same thing, give me an argument for the binary gender system and I can give you two that tears it apart, same with race, same with borders and countries.
We face challenges of climate change that are far more important than imaginary lines drawn in the sand, give it up people, be a human and move into the future of this world and stop playing the games that separate people from each other.
We have far more important things we should be doing besides petty squabbles based on borders, race and gender, if the human race is to survive, and it can, it needs to be moving forward, not sideways and especially backwards.