really old member saying hello

[oldbutwise]

Hi all. I'm Mike. I'm actually about a generation older than a lot (most?) of the members here but I'm so glad I found this site. I was born in 1968 (one of my earliest chores was to milk the wooly mammoth every morning ). I realized around age 11 or 12 that I was different. This was back in 1979 or 1980 so there was no internet, home computers were virtually nonexistant short of the ones people soldered together themselves, and when my dad bought our first computer in 1981 the state of the art modems were 4800 baud (kind of like 4.8Kb). The only way to get information was to go to the library and either ask the librarians for magazines or look for books using the card catalog. So there was no way in holy heck I was going to go to the library, tell them what I was feeling inside, and ask them if they could recommend any books or magazines I could read. They would have shouted "FREAK!!!" and kicked me out of the library. At least that's what I thought at the time. I had never even heard of treansexuals back then, and it wasn't until a few years later that I had heard the phrase "a woman in a man's body". Even though we still have a long way to go as a society, they're infinitely better than they were back then.

Today I identify as an androgyne. But for a long time I felt like there was a man and a woman inside me. I used to watch Buck Rogers with Gil Gerard hoping each time that this would be the episode with Princess Ardra. The outfits she wore were definitely inspired by the original Star Trek, so you can imagine how little they covered for the time. Yes, I was male enough that I appreciated her and the outfits but at the same time I also wished I was a woman so I could wear the same outfits. For years I didn't know that transgendered people (people who aren't transexuals but aren't crossdressers either) even existed. So I called myself the only thing I knew that seemed to fit: freak. Imagine the hit my self esteem took at that age.

What finally drove me to check out the transgender community was the day I came across a cover shoot Teri Hatcher did. I think it was Cosmo but that isn't important. I had two thoughts at the exact same time and the exact same intensity. 1) God I wish I was with her. 2) God I wish I was her. I almost fell out of my chair because of those thoughts. So I figured "OK, you're a freak. It's time to hang out with other freaks." (Please don't read any offense at that. I was in my early 30s and it was the first time I had ever used the internet so, being a product of a dark time, my only knowledge of the transgender community was rather limited.) I first looked for a crossdressers support site since I had been crosdressing since 13 or 14 when I found some old women's clothes in my closet, which was being used to store some other things too. I quickly realized that I wasn't a crossdresser because almost to a man they said they're not women and they don't really know what makes them want to crossdress. At least I knew right away that they were just normal guys who liked to wear women's clothing. I knew I wasn't a transexual either. (By this time I knew enough about transexuals that my opinion of them was very positive.) All I knew about was crossdressers and transexuals. If I wasn't either of those thern what the flippin' heck was I? Fortunately the site was for the transgender community as a whole so I quickly discovered that I was transgendered. It was a big relief to know that not only wasn't I the only person in thwe history of the world, but that someone coined the word "transgendered" around the time I was born because there were so many people like me.

I still wasn't satisfied with just calling myself transegndered because it incorporates a few different identities. (By the way, I love that "non-binary gendered" is being used today. Even on that site when somebody said they were transgendered you had to read a few of their posts to figure out how they used the word.) I went to a therapist for a while and he told me the first time I saw him that I sounded androgynous to him. I told him I didn't think so because I thought that androgynous people dressed so you couldn't tell waht gender they were. He told me that's a misuse of the word and told me the real definition. Bingo! I was an androgyne.

These days I like to wear a mix of mens and womens clothes but since I'm only out to my immediate family I'm very careful to wear womens clothes that look like mens until you look carefully. Being 5'12" tall (think about it) and 246 pounds I'm a tall plus size in womens clothes so my womens clothes are limited to pants (I'm a 30 inseam so they fit) and underwear. And I like to wear womens sleepwear to bed. But mostly I think sometimes about what my life would have been like if I'd been born a girl instead of a boy. Those thoughts aren't strong enough or often enough to make me wish I was a woman. I'm a man, I enjoy being the man in my relationships, and I don't want to be any woman's girlfriend ever. It's just that when I eventually get out of plus size clothes and into regular sizes my then girlfriend and I can shop at the same places.

So as hard as I know it is to be non-binary gendered these days take comfort that it's miles better than back in 1979-1980 when I first discovered I was an androgyne. And I apologize for the length of this post. I have a habit of writing long posts and e-mails anyway but this turned out to be the War And Peace of posts.

[Leena]

Welcome to the forum, Mike!

I'm in my forties, this forum skews a bit older than you think. Most younger people seem to prefer social media to forums like this. It was hard growing up in the 80's knowing I was trans, and not having access to the information that is available now. Everyone tried to paint me as some sort of super feminine gay guy, but that was not at all what I was, or wanted to be. Transition seemed impossible for someone like me back then, that didn't fit all the check boxes, and wasn't wanting, or even in a position to fully transition.

[oldbutwise]

Thanks Leena. It's nice to know there are older folks here. I hadn't really looked around much before I signed up so most of the posts I read seemed to be from slightly younger folks. So you know exactly what I mean about having to ask a librarian to recommend some good books to read. "Yeah right kid. I'm busy here. Why don't you go bother somebody else." What we would have given for today's internet back then, huh? I don't remember what movie it was but two teens, a boy and a girl, were watching a late night talk show and the guest was a transwoman. The boy turns to the girl and says, "For my next project I think I'll make a woman. Out of me." That wasn't funny even then but you know a lot of people laughed. And this was a comedy so it was rated PG.

[Becky]

Welcome to the Forum! I was born in 1973, so I'm not that far behind you. Our only difference is that I wanted to be Colonel Dearing rather than Princess Adra, LOL. Buck Rogers was the best.

I share that whole experience of being Non-Binary in an era when we had no idea it was a thing. No visibility in TV shows or movies, no books about it, no internet, no indoor plumbing... (okay, maybe not that last one)

You're in good company here. We're all still figuring stuff out, but we're all thrilled that there's a community. You'll find a lot of support here, and even some laughs.

I'm really glad you're here.
<3

[oldbutwise]

Thanks for the welcome Becky. Wilma was #2 in my heart. Knowing Pamela Helmsley, who played the good princess, was later on Matt Houston was almost enough to make me keep watching the show. She was the first woman I ever had a major crush on. Off topic, but has your body started telling you yet in no uncertain terms that it's nice your mind is still willing to do that but it's in charge now and it's saying absolutely not?

[Trinity]

Welcome to the forum.

There are two of us here that grew up in the 60's and early 70's.

How old were you when you knew you were different?

[Yuki]

Welcome, Mike. I think most of us that are regularly active here are at least 30+. I notice that some of the really young people tend to not stay for very long.

[oldbutwise]

Thanks Trinity and Yuki. Yuki, even at at 35 I'm still old enough to be some members' uncle. So I still feel old. lol Trinity, I was only about 11 or 12 when I knew I was different. I had discovered girls so I knew I wasn't gay but I also knew I was very likely the only boy in my school who watched Buck Rogers as much to drool over the princess as to envy the gorgeous outfits she was almost wearing. Although shortly before that (I don't even remember when but it was shortly after I started puberty [11?]) we were watching a TV show about a cruise ship. It wasn't a documentary but it wasn't fiction either. They picked two passengers to have a little fun at lunch, a man and a woman. They cut a hole in one of the short tables and had him get under the table, stick his head through the table, and covered him with... I can't think of the word right now put one of those fancy silver covers you put over dishes to serve food. When the other passengers came to lunch they took the cover off and said he was the head table. Eh. They put the woman in a yellow string bikini (even though I was 11 max I still remember this very clearly), had her lie on her side with her head held in one hand, put a plastic sheet over her, and covered her with hors d'oevres. She was gorgeous which I liked very much but I remember being very jealous that she got to do that. I wished I was her at that moment. Obviously I never said a word to my parents. In fact, this is the first time I have ever said this. I knew something "wasn't right" but I knew better than to say anything. But it was watching Buck Rogers that confirmed that I'm different.

Oh, and that joke about being 5'12" was something my dad told me a friend of his said when they were teens or young adults. Whenever the police would stop them to ask them questions about goings on in the neighborhood they'd ask my dad's friend how tall he was. "6 feet." "Six feet what?" "Just six feet." He finally started telling them that he was 5'12" so they'd leave him alone. So I've wanted to be 6' since I was young just so I could tell people that. Of course, I had two dreams come true about my height. I'm 6 feet one half inch, so I'm technically I'm over 6'.

[Becky]

Apr 9, 2020 1:19:43 GMT 8 oldbutwise said:

Thanks for the welcome Becky. Wilma was #2 in my heart. Knowing Pamela Helmsley, who played the good princess, was later on Matt Houston was almost enough to make me keep watching the show. She was the first woman I ever had a major crush on. Off topic, but has your body started telling you yet in no uncertain terms that it's nice your mind is still willing to do that but it's in charge now and it's saying absolutely not?

Oh, my body got grumpy at about 44-45.  I'm looking at those ages in the rearview mirror, now.

Mainly, I've got all the creaking and aching that makes this age so much fun, plus a sloth-paced metabolism that makes me gain weight when I think about food.  Things are still working fine South of the Border, which is why I've placed my dreams of going on E on indefinite hold.

In my mind, I'm a 20-something young woman.  That means that a lot of the things I'd like to do, and a lot of the outfits I'd like to wear, aren't even really an option.  So not only do I have a gender disconnect between brain and body, but an AGE disconnect, as well.

I am counting my blessings, though.  Until about two years ago, I thought I was a "freak" and started planning self harm.  Loving myself is a great start, even if it came late in life.

[Ativan Prescribed]

I grew up in the fifties and sixties and always knew I was who I am, not different, just not the same.
The original Star Trek had androgynous characters on different worlds a few times, and it was nothing surprising to me in the least that they would do this, even back then some things were apparent to people.
It was the times of the especially late sixties that being trans was starting to be seen as a reality and NB was seen far more than people remember today, it wasn't as uncommon as people make it out to be.
I never shied away much as NB but had nothing much to say about it, my business and nothing that people thought of it stopped me from knowing I wasn't different, just not the typical, just not the same as most but I was that way with most everything anyways.
Sure the internet has done a lot for trans and NB, but it has done a lot of damage as well, conspiracy theory people love to talk about how trans and gay will take down the world, as if it is a thing that was new and I suppose it is like a new thing for some who can't think on their own.
But life was what it was and still is, but what is different is that people are not falling for the old ideas that trans and gay are going to be the end of the world, just republicans are at the rate they are going.
All it took for me was to embrace who I am and then to find those who are accepting and especially of the same mind, and while it was a quiet thing mostly, all you had to do was open your eyes to others and it was fairly easy to see those who were not about to hide themselves just because of bigots.
In today's world, it isn't about righting the wrongs of those opinions about trans and NB, it is about the recognition that is due and its coming around, the old arguments are falling off to the wayside of uninformed and if there is something that society doesn't use, is the uninformed for very long.
All the arguments that have been used over the last couple decades are seen that way, very few people even take much stock about them anymore, its due to people realizing that trans and gay having a negative effect on society just haven't come true.
The only people who still think it will be harmful are those who also don't like being called the bigots they are, I overhear people saying some bigoted thing or another and its easy to shut their shit down by justy saying bigot, no arguing, just a simple statement of fact, they can't deal with it.
Nobody wants to called a bigot and when they are, they flip out over getting the label because they have some stupid argument, so by not arguing and simply stating what most people are thinking, that they are bigots, is all it takes, nobody runs to their rescue, nobody wants to be a bigot.
So the game is changing faster all the time, and the more that people call bigots out as bigots, the less others will be influenced by their bigotry, bigots being far less popular than any other group of people in society.

[oldbutwise]

Wow, so you grew up before Stonewall huh? How different were things back then, both good and bad? I've only read a little bit and that's only from the viewpoint of gay folks. What was it like for people like us?

Since you're a Star Trek fan, can I get your opinion on something? I've been trying to come up with a better way to describe gender than "gender is what's between your ears". It took me a little bit to understand what that means and I'm trans. I was thinking of using the episode Errand Of Mercy as my example. "The Organians evolved beyond physical bodies long ago but they're still male and female. (Yeah I know but I'm trying to keep it simple enough for cis-gendered people to understand without straying from the point.) How they feel even though they don't have physical bodies is their gender."

What do you think? Am I on the right track here? I'd really appreciate hearing your thoughts on this. And the best part is they don't have to be Trekkies to know what I mean.