[ti]spaceship[/ti]Mapping Non-Binary Gender

[Jamie Quinn]

May 1, 2019 7:23:51 GMT 8 Jamie Quinn said:

I wasn’t going to mention this necessarily, but I’ve actually got a framework that I’ve been developing in an attempt to figure myself out. It’s designed to make sense to people stuck in the binary, but also be able to convey as many gender experiences as possible (think the political compass with a heat map in stead of a single point). My plan has been to go public with it at some point, but I wanted to run it past the folks here to make sure it represents more nonbinary-folk than just me. It’ll be a bit of work to get it all down, so it’ll come a bit later. Stay tuned.

I decided it was going to be easier to explain all of this in video form, rather than typing. This video's pretty rough-and-ready as I only spent an hour working on it, but it conveys the ideas I'm trying to get across (though I'm pretty sure I skim over a few important bits). It's an unlisted video, so it hasn't gone public.

I'll let the video speak for itself. I hope you like Australian accents.



Vanity PS: If I sound a bit out of breath, it's just because I'm coming down with a cold.

[Ativan Prescribed]

personally didn't get past a couple minutes, more than my usual attention span...
The two sides as you have it are not the two social roles, those roles are in the imagination of the strictest of strict binary champions of everything.
There are plenty of crossover roles and there really isn't any restrictions anymore, its an accepted thing for both sex's to be able to choose the roles they want.
The big problem is that gender is seen as the same thing as sex, you are the gender your sex is as determined at birth.
We all know that it is total bullshit to simplify something that one is only very loosely tied to the other.
And the more people see that gender isn't the same thing as sex, and that they have a sex and yet they could very well not be happy having to play that game of gender is the same thing.
But they will go along because they really don't see that gender isn't the same thing, you can have a gender that is whatever it is and it won't even come close to the designated sex.
Which as long as I'm here, you don't get a designated gender at birth, that idea is the shortcut used to often and it buys into the thing that says gender is the same thing as sex.
You get a designated sex, because nobody knows what your gender is going to be, but the gender police always use the gender and sex as the same, so in some places I'm sure, it might say on your birth certificate that you are this or that gender.
It's in the totally wrong misconception that gender is the same thing as sex that throws people off, on one hand, the gender police people are always going to say they are the same thing no matter what, but then there are those people who insist that chemtrails are real.
And then there are the people who have had the conversations and have come to realize that they are two entirely different things.
In that sense, a person born with this sex can do and live like the that sex all day long, just so long as they don't cross the gender divide, then the gender police people jump in and say they can't look like that, they have to look like this, because they get confused a lot.
It isn't even really about acceptance so much as it is about getting the two things out there and recognized for what they are, sex is your chromosomes, nothing more than that, they determine some things like reproduction stuff and not much more.
They don't regulate height, they don't regulate body mass, but they do seem to regulate hair for some reason, which begs the question of why males have more back hair than women do, there isn't a real function for that other than the neanderthal look, bt that died out with them.
So it isn't even about explaining the differences of gender, you can be male at birth and still have a feminine gender, as opposed to a female gender, the better way to understand that.
Once we stop saying we have a female gender, then it can become more clear to others that we have a feminine gender and a male sex, so fricken what, there is no laws of nature that say there is this one thing follows the other rule of the made up gender police laws.
The distinction has to be and it has to read as, that there are for instance, male sex, and that can be any gender you want, masculine to feminine and everywhere in the universe between, there is nothing in a person's sex that says they have to have a gender that is the same.
And the big realization is that gender isn't drawn with a line down the middle, there is no middle, that is sex, which isn't the same thing, so there isn't any some of this and some of that, your gender is exactly the way you perceive it.
A lot of people will equate their gender to some sort of sex thing in that they are this and that to varying degrees, but that just makes the sex thing the same as gender when it isn't, it's time that people stop equating it as if it has to be a reliable source of why there is this and that.
You can call your gender twenty different things that have nothing to do with sex and they are correct, you can call yours gerbil cage wheels if you want, hardly descriptive enough to make sense, but you can, you can't do that with your sex.
Gender is an elusive thing that is in itself something that is inherently individual, and we have how many billions of individuals now?
Sex is still the same old thing it has been since biology or the sex police named them.
Gender is as much a part of you as your emotions are and that is more to the truth, just one of them, that is what gender can be about, sex doesn't do that, the emotions of a male or female are roughly the very same thing, it is only gender that differentiates emotions.
Children recognize emotions long before gender, and they recognize gender usually before sex, they know their gender or express it, yet have no idea who has what sex organs, and emotions are way before, you act scared and a kid sees it, the recognize it, you show love and they recognize that way before the other ones, emotions are what set the groundwork for our realizations of gender, it isn't an inherent thing, yet some of it can be, but it isn't as a whole, it's the way emotions play out for us, we don't pick and choose, there is no decision made, there is just the way we use emotions that seems to set the stage for our own determination of gender that comes from that, realizing it is the last thing we do, from then on, if it isn't the same as the gender police way, then we suffer a lifetime of cruelties, and those who are just on the fringe, they suffer it as well, the gender police are the first in our live to truly fuck us up.
You aren't born with a set of emotions, you gain them and refine them and sure some of them resonate with a person, but not because of their sex, it is the same as any other thing that makes up an individual, brown hair isn't a sex thing, anyone can have brown hair.
but the story goes that males became the hunters and the females became the gatherers, and archeologists have never had any proof of that to show anyone, they do however have proof that there are some of each for everything in those times.
Think about it, if you are a struggling species, you all share the responsibilities, you don't send out only the males to take down a mammoth, to many males die and the species suffers, you don't have the females bring in the gathering stuff, for each thing there is a season and for the males to sit around and swap mammouth stories doesn't get enough of the gatherings in to survive until next year, in fact, the very build of a lot of prehistoric people are the same big bellied at one time and then skinny as hell the next time because they all ate and starved the same, there is no differentiating male and female as if the hero's are the males, it never ever worked that way, it wasn't until history became closer to where we are now that things became designated, and guess what, the bigger can beat you males decided that females get the shit jobs, mostly because they had time out for children, but before that, it was back to survival and all hands on deck for childcare, only the so called modern man became the deciders of who gets what and who has to clean the toilets.
But gender doesn't do that, ans sex doesn't either for it, it is only in the male sex that they decided what is and isn't for each sex, and the entire gender thing became the same because they wanted it to be that way.
designated roles and who cleans the toilets is decided before birth according to males and males only, so there are some truly make believe shit rules going on that says gender is the same thing, is most certainly isn't the same and it can't be interchangeable in language if you ever want the people of the matrix to believe and understand you when you do the same interchangeable that they do, you have to make that rule disappear with the logic of it, just like the flat earth is not so because of logic, and chemtrails are the same way.
People are so willing to go along with the majority think this so it n=must be true, but think about all the really stupid ass shit that people have thought was true through history, this century is going to be the laughable one about gender and sex being the same thing, unless we explain why it isn't.
Not to knock your vid without seeing it all, I just see it getting off on the wrong foot right away, maybe you explained it better than I do later on in it, but you mentioned that you might be off a bit with the finer points, gender vs sex is a finer point.
I should go back and listen to it all, I'm sure it is really on the mark but it might be a bit off the mark because of the finer points.
Every time someone tries to give the general population the truth, no matter how they say it, it's a good thing and gets the general people's attention, which is what it is trying to do, so good for making the vid.

[Leena]

I'm not sure the heatmap quite works for gender fluidity, at least how you showed it. Not all are mostly in the middle, quite a few mostly experience the binary, just both binaries at different times or situations.

Also, how one experiences gender is not quite the same as how one wants to experience gender. On most days, I would like to experience gender simply as a woman, but how I currently look, that is not possible. If it does become possible through HRT, I don't know if I'll want to experience it any other way again.

I try not to get my hopes up to much on that, though how I experience it now is not at all how I like. There are a lot of things I could do if I were a passing trans woman or went back to presenting as a guy, like easily get a job, or friends, or a date, or go a lot of places safely. It would be different though than how I experienced them presenting as a guy, but I could feel comfortable doing them at all as opposed to now.

I don't speak for all genderfluid people though, and I don't even know I should label myself as that, but I will unless I feel I can start presenting as a woman full time.

[Jamie Quinn]

May 6, 2019 2:33:56 GMT 8 Leena said:

I'm not sure the heatmap quite works for gender fluidity, at least how you showed it. Not all are mostly in the middle, quite a few mostly experience the binary, just both binaries at different times or situations.

Also, how one experiences gender is not quite the same as how one wants to experience gender. On most days, I would like to experience gender simply as a woman, but how I currently look, that is not possible. If it does become possible through HRT, I don't know if I'll want to experience it any other way again.

I try not to get my hopes up to much on that, though how I experience it now is not at all how I like. There are a lot of things I could do if I were a passing trans woman or went back to presenting as a guy, like easily get a job, or friends, or a date, or go a lot of places safely. It would be different though than how I experienced them presenting as a guy, but I could feel comfortable doing them at all as opposed to now.

I don't speak for all genderfluid people though, and I don't even know I should label myself as that, but I will unless I feel I can start presenting as a woman full time.

Yeah, that is something I should have gone into. I have thought about having multiple maps for each person, one to show how you present aesthetically, one to show how you would like to be contextualised socially, and one to show your inner identity or your ideal gender expression. I’m worried that that would trade-off some simplicity.

As for the genderfluid part, I feel like the heat map would have that covered, unless you’re getting at the problem I touched on later in the video about confusing two of those three gender experiences. If your problem is more with the specific ways I displayed those genders on the map, they were only meant as examples made with incredibly basic graphics, so it’s not the clearest or most accurate representation at least from those factors.

[Jamie Quinn]

Oh, and Ativan: Are the issues you have able to be fixed by me refining my language and being more precise about distinguishing between gender and sex? If so, I’m working on it.

I’ll be interested to hear what you think of the rest of the video.

[Ativan Prescribed]

I'll watch it later, I'll have more time and mood after a while.
The entire thing is about the relationship of sex and gender, to bigots especially who seem to be loud enough to convince an entire so called unchristian religious cult that they are one and the same.
Its kinda one of the things along with keeping tax exempt status and being able to use the extra money to be political and use a pulpit to demand politics bend to their will, and the warpath of Planned Parenthood because they are loosely related to some of the abortions but are much more inclined to talk it out and besides, they do way more of other stuff that is good for the community that the non christians are willing to just kill off because they have a major head in the ass configuration about life and death, you die and they live kind of politics that is ruining it for the real christians in the country, they honestly think trump was sent by their god and that he is the second coming as far as they are concerned, and they pretty much are the same people who tend to be flat earthers and will tell you all about the govt conspiracy of chemtrails, but can't tell you why it would even be a conspiracy because they only imagine there are chemicals in jet exhaust, when if they really wanted to do something like that, they would simply do it like the did with agent orange or just use crop dusters, or just spray the imaginary chemicals that only the govt knows what it is from the damn wings and why go to the trouble of running it through the exhaust, which is way to hot for any chemical compound to exist in, it simply falls apart, but there you have it for the insanity of the logic that says gender and sex are the same thing, just like flat earthers, when shown the evidence they are wrong, they tend to babble a lot about religious freedoms and that you should die because you are not with them, so that means you are against them, and that is another one of their paranoid visions of reality, that trans are out to get them because they are the true believers, of what they can't really say because they are too busy shooting abortion drs because they kill people, so they kill people and then want their money to be tax exempt because they declare their cul;t a religion, but still want to just preach crazy ass politics and no religion, I suspect that is mostly because they don't have a clear idea of just what that is, but they say it so it must be true, like chemtrails.
But the truth that the rest of the world is going to ask you about, is what is the difference between gender and sex, especially birth sex.
Because you don't have a realization of gender in total until around the age of three at pretty much the earliest, so how can birth sex be the same as gender when that person doesn't know until years later.
Their entire argument is that birth sex and gender are one and the same, yet there are literally millions who say they don't actually feel like their birth sex as their gender, their gender is something different and personal.
And that's the other thing, your gender is your personal information, if you want to share, then go ahead, and yet millions of those millions won't share because of the fanatics who are so engrossed in your personal gender to want you to say it is the same as your gender.
It goes around and around, but the fact remains, gender is your own personal information about how you perceive yours to be, but there is no question about birth sex, you are what you are, but on the other hand you are WHO you are.
And there certainly are way more people willing to think of their gender as not the bread and butter of the non christian religious fanatics who claim they are the only real christians, yet have no proof of virtually anything they spout off about.
If it wasn't for the head up their ass people, the rest of the people would be safe in just asking what is the difference, and when they find out, they tend to agree and a lot of times confess that they don't feel 100% the same as their birth sex, because gender is not the same thing.
You get these chromosomes and they stay the same no matter what, your DNA doesn't change, your fingerprints and earmarks (there is such a thing, same as fingerprints) are always the same and yet every last one of them is different than anyone else's, how can that be?
It's simple, we are individuals and aside from the physical differences and the more of the same things, gender isn't the same as each others, if it was, then why do people not agree and pretty much feel it is theirs to do with as they please, it is malleable and once it is formed into the correct forms that a person recognizes, they then have a good idea of what their gender is, they already know their birth sex and are stuck with it pretty much because there are basically two kinds, yet there are intersex as well, but mostly two and they are the same as the others.
Gender is a part of each person individuality and it has been studied to death and the results are always the same, it is what it is for each person and their discover of what it is for them is a grand thing to find out, instead of just going through life never feeling like you fit in.
I can use comparisons all day long about why one is this and the other that, but the only thing that the so called knowledgeable ones of bigotry can tell you about them being the same thing, is nothing, they can't even use the god in the bible says bullshit, and it is, according to the very same person, you can't have tattoos, you can't do much of anything and be a bad person, yet a lot of those supposed turned out to be important people in history, contributed to society, so the bible verse which isn't updated as new information comes along is not infallible, most of it is easy to dismiss as the stuff they said a couple thousand years ago, it compares feebly with flight, in a little over a century we are talking Mars, the bible is still sprouting the same old that most of doesn't apply, I'm sure you can find something in it that says you can't fly, and besides, it's common knowledge that they left out the good stuff and just used the bad stuff so that they have control over society, and look how well that worked out.
Gender is who you are, your birth sex is what you are, and if a person can't tell the difference with that, then they need to sign up with the sheeple who are antivaccers and flat earthers and being on the moon was done in the back stages in hollywood, oh,... UFOS, don't get me started, but it is so unbelievably simple and there isn't an argument, genger is who you are, birth sex is what you are, and the options there are very limited in the ability to even have enough brain power left over to understand that if birth sex is all there is to you, then you are a slug in someone's garden.
Explain that to people and if they want to understand, they will, if they stick their fingers in their ears and do a lot of nanana, then they won't. But given the chance to understand, the opening lines are that who are is gender, what you are is sex.
Simplicity, when it all boils down, what's left is the simplest answer.

[Leena]

May 6, 2019 8:20:09 GMT 8 Jamie Quinn said:

May 6, 2019 2:33:56 GMT 8 Leena said:

I'm not sure the heatmap quite works for gender fluidity, at least how you showed it. Not all are mostly in the middle, quite a few mostly experience the binary, just both binaries at different times or situations.

Also, how one experiences gender is not quite the same as how one wants to experience gender. On most days, I would like to experience gender simply as a woman, but how I currently look, that is not possible. If it does become possible through HRT, I don't know if I'll want to experience it any other way again.

I try not to get my hopes up to much on that, though how I experience it now is not at all how I like. There are a lot of things I could do if I were a passing trans woman or went back to presenting as a guy, like easily get a job, or friends, or a date, or go a lot of places safely. It would be different though than how I experienced them presenting as a guy, but I could feel comfortable doing them at all as opposed to now.

I don't speak for all genderfluid people though, and I don't even know I should label myself as that, but I will unless I feel I can start presenting as a woman full time.

Yeah, that is something I should have gone into. I have thought about having multiple maps for each person, one to show how you present aesthetically, one to show how you would like to be contextualised socially, and one to show your inner identity or your ideal gender expression. I’m worried that that would trade-off some simplicity.

As for the genderfluid part, I feel like the heat map would have that covered, unless you’re getting at the problem I touched on later in the video about confusing two of those three gender experiences. If your problem is more with the specific ways I displayed those genders on the map, they were only meant as examples made with incredibly basic graphics, so it’s not the clearest or most accurate representation at least from those factors.

It's a bit complicated with genderfluid and also bigender, there is no real standard definition, and some people use them almost interchangeably, and some use bigender to mean two genders at once. That sort of is the problem in doing something like this though, it's a lot more complicated than could be done, but making it too complex makes it hard for cis people to understand, not that they really are going to understand anyway.