[ti]sad[/ti]Labels? Isn't who I am more important that what I may be?

[Amber Marie]

I've no idea what I may be called, and at 59, I'm just starting to figure out who I am. In my generation, and in the family I came from, there was never any thought to question. Certainly not if you wanted to avoid pain. I'm a functional aspie, which meant growing up I had little connection with others. I couldn't stand the touch of others not even parents or grandparents. I was quiet and conformed as best I could. Though born male, I couldn't stand boys. Not their noise. Not their rowdiness, not their rough and tumble ways, obsession with sports, none of it. I was attracted to girls by age five, but I wasn't one. I stood outside, looking in. I decided then, at that early age, that all I wanted in life was to not be alone. So, I accepted the male role to be a husband and father. While I've hated myself all my life, and yes, at times wished I'd been a girl, I satisfied myself by doing all I could go be a protector and provider. That alone gave me the purpose and drive not to slit my wrists and be done. So here I am. In a male body but neither male or female. Grown children and my best and often only friend for the last 53 years as my wife. She liked that I wasn't like other boys, and our relationship is one of love, companionship, respect, and trust. She doesn't care that my reality is in the inbetween or even if my body takes on a feminine form, though she would want me to keep the dangly bits because she dislikes girl bits. No big deal, though with her Interstitial cystitis, physical relations are limited anyway. It was never about sex, and other than my children, hers is the only touch I've ever been able to enjoy. Being an aspie meant that I'd overload often, and meltdowns were explosive. As a last ditch attempt to curtail that. I began herbal HRT. Four months in, meltdowns turn inward instead of exploding out. My body is slowly feminizing, and I'm starting to like being able to feel. I don't hate myself so much and am beginning to accept myself. I know that regardless of body shape, I'll never be either boy or girl, but I'm beginning to be a me I can accept and like. Had I been born female, I'd still have been the same quirky, outdoorsy but not sporty person. My core would still be me, neither and yet both. Same wants, needs, desires, hopes and fears. True, I prefer a feminine form, but I'll never transition my person or life. I have no need to, certainly not at my age. I see a very nice counselor to help me sort it out. They are in the inbetween as well. Tuesday I'm going to a clinic regarding traditional HRT to take over the herbal. This is for proper medical care as I find myself wanting to live instead of waiting to die. So, what am I? What label would be appropriate? I'm me, not female, not male, but having a more female body, a mind in the middle, and a presentation that aside from longer hair and nicer nails, will likely always be the same. I'd love to have your thoughts.

[EchelonHunt]

I had a similar discussion with other members over in the "How does your gender feel today?" thread in the Non-binary section, feel free to check it out!

I know the perfect "label" for you

Jax

You are you, regardless of body, mind and presentation.

You sound non-binary as you say you are neither female nor male. You've come to the right place! We will support you in your journey, navigating this world as a NB

[Physics Buff]

IDK jax, if you're not comfortable with m or f then perhaps nb. Curious why label is important as it sounds like label is not important to your wife.

I don't think your age of 59 matters as far as wanting to change. I am 67 and want to change, just not clear what way I want to go.

[Becky]

In my humble opinion, the labels are for us. They're helpful for figuring ourselves out, and for finding similar folks to talk to.

The older I get (and I'm in the wall-phone-with-cord-generation), the less I care about how other folks label me. I tend to use "non-binary" when I'm quietly explaining my identity to loved ones, and "genderqueer" when I'm mad and want to shout it out loud at a rally.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Non-binary is the umbrella term for those who don't fall in the binarys.
All of the 'labels' that people use are simply their descriptors that they feel gives others an idea of who they are, their identity.
The trouble with those is that they tend to go off into tangents of description that others have no idea what that means.
And then other ones are one of the pick and choose that tend to change depending on moods or similar things for them, they tend to be the journey labels used.
As people get used to the idea that they are NB, having a descriptive word for themselves gives them a sense of identity, most everyone wants one of those.
Look at all the labels that cis binary give themselves, there are literally thousands of them and they tend to change them as they go through their life journeys.
The need to have an identifier is strong because that is the way the social construct works, if you want to be a part of a group, you need to use an identifier from that group.
And there are a lot of labels that people use under the nb umbrella, but the bottom line is that nb is the group, and that all of the labels are accepted, they aren't needed.
NB doesn't necessarily follow the social constructs, and the need of NB's to want others to have a identifier isn't necessary because you are a part of the group.
There aren't like meetings for any of the identifiers or labels, the jist of who each person is the perception that others get just by talking, a conversation, the labels isn't necessary.
But they are used and thrown around, and yet they don't have that need attached to them, I see most people use several interchangeably and the next person uses theirs the same way yet the overlap isn't the same for each person, NB is pretty much the only one that is needed, just like the cis binary use male and female, but they also have that thing about who they are and have their labels to be able to fit in the sub groups that they have.
It's their thing to be one of the guys so to speak that can hang around on the corner where their favorite bar is and talk shit about everyone else because they have the best identifier, label.
They try to give us labels that they want us to use because they just can't figure it out, mostly because a good share of them really don't accept others outside their group.
Religions are like that, and they have the prerequisite labels for the sub groups, breaking the main religion into separate or groups of say churches and the like.
There is the fan labels, football teams are big, really big and important to people, it's why the taking a knee thing is so controversial, nobody want their favorites doing what they don't want them to do, takes away from the fandom, sorta makes them feel lesser when they want to feel more by being a fan and using that label as a source of pride, one that stands out, and that goes right back around to the labels that can be used under the NB umbrella, they are kinda the same in that they can stand out from the others NB's.
So they are a lot like the social construct and in general NB's don't really play that game, the construct tells us we are a low life form or simply don't exist, even if we use the football labels, there is that huge divide between NB and the world of binary, even in the transgender umbrella, the binary transgender have the very same difficulty and if transsexual, think of it as the same as their line from one to the other.
We aren't on that line or spectrum and the cis binary use it as well, and when they come across our labels, they don't have a clue.
But the construct is hard to separate ourselves from and the persistent need to have an identifier, especially if we aren't identified as real, is there and hard to get away from.
But once a person settles down into a comfortable them and have a knowing of where they are in the sphere of NB, they can just point to something as they need to in a conversation and that works.
The labels are less identifiers for a lot of us, they tend to just be one of all the ways we can be and are accepted at face value, the need to stand out goes away because we are NB, regardless and that's the point that we always come from in conversation.
The labels are the kinda identifiers and are as I see them just clues to who this person is, but they aren't the end of it all just as a fan identifier doesn't, as much as people want them to, they are just the tip of the iceberg of who we are like a fan identifier is. (they are two very different things, but as an example it works)
If you hang around and get used to us like we are of each other, you'll just be another NB and that is much more of an identity than all the others, but in our reality, it's the one to separate us from binaries in general, it's more for them than us, we are us, they are them, it isn't a social level and it isn't a term that promotes one being better than another, it's the just is.
The lack of the construct for us because we are that different, (only to binaries), is a strength we can use, we don't have to play the social construct games because we aren't allowed, to different for them...
That construct is what we have been referring to as the matrix, simply because we can use that as a way of describing NB as we are in the context of the construct itself, the matrix.
It's just an easy and familiar way to use examples because we lack the language to do that at times, lots of times, the examples are a much quicker way of explanation for a number of things.
We live in the forest, that has been around for a long time and has a definite meaning for us, especially the ones who came here from the old forum, where the forest thing came from, it was used as a kind of put down but that didn't work, it was turned around and used like the matrix is to give the examples of who we are and how we live, the forest paths are ours to use, there are as many as there are NB's.
So se[arating us into small groups just doesn't get anybody anywhere, it just separates us and there is absolutely no need to do that, but those labels can still be used as not identification, nut as descriptions instead.
Does that make sense? I tend to ramble off into some strange places in my mind some days, lol...

[Amber Marie]

I reread that post from the days not so long ago when I was finally trying to come to grips with myself. Days when I still couldn't admit even to myself who and what I was. Days when I broke, suicide attempt, hospitalization, nightmares, memories resurfacing, and me desperately trying to hold the line, pick and choose what I would and would not accept. Foolish foolish me. Repression is like a dam. Everything we can't bare to remember or deal with, shoved behind a wall that gets higher and thicker each year while it overflows with rage and depression. So heavy and so full that it begins to crack and crumble from its own weight. Last October, I was almost swept away as my dam burst. And behind it all, there I lay, huddled and shivering, unable to bare a light I hadn't seen in 56 years.
I've grown stronger since that day, and I stand on my own. Sometimes I'm still just as scared as I was on that day that I finally broke, but now, I face my fears. Noone but those who witnessed this time would recognize me. I am for the most part who I was meant to be. I'm most certainly non-binary, but not because I'm denying parts of myself, but rather because I've embraced my being as a whole. I still love a good pipe and a smooth scotch, still enjoy using my hands and still protect and provide for those I love, but Jax has been laid to rest. He doesn't need to protect me or hide me anymore. I legally bear the name and gender I knew was mine at age 4. I move through the world easily these days. I simply fit. My form has altered drastically and I no longer hate it or hate myself. I may be scared, I most certainly am damaged, but I'm healing and for the first time, I'm truly alive. My name is Amber Marie Grey. I'm a non-binary, transgender woman with traits of both poles and a body and mind in sinc. I speak more softly, move less swiftly, feel more at peace, but woe to those who hurt what's mine. I can still call Jax temper, can still face and fight with those who try to cross me. I am wo-man, and I am whole!

[Trinity]

Aug 29, 2019 5:09:06 GMT 8 Amber Marie said:

I reread that post from the days not so long ago when I was finally trying to come to grips with myself. Days when I still couldn't admit even to myself who and what I was. Days when I broke, suicide attempt, hospitalization, nightmares, memories resurfacing, and me desperately trying to hold the line, pick and choose what I would and would not accept. Foolish foolish me. Repression is like a dam. Everything we can't bare to remember or deal with, shoved behind a wall that gets higher and thicker each year while it overflows with rage and depression. So heavy and so full that it begins to crack and crumble from its own weight. Last October, I was almost swept away as my dam burst. And behind it all, there I lay, huddled and shivering, unable to bare a light I hadn't seen in 56 years.
I've grown stronger since that day, and I stand on my own. Sometimes I'm still just as scared as I was on that day that I finally broke, but now, I face my fears. Noone but those who witnessed this time would recognize me. I am for the most part who I was meant to be. I'm most certainly non-binary, but not because I'm denying parts of myself, but rather because I've embraced my being as a whole. I still love a good pipe and a smooth scotch, still enjoy using my hands and still protect and provide for those I love, but Jax has been laid to rest. He doesn't need to protect me or hide me anymore. I legally bear the name and gender I knew was mine at age 4. I move through the world easily these days. I simply fit. My form has altered drastically and I no longer hate it or hate myself. I may be scared, I most certainly am damaged, but I'm healing and for the first time, I'm truly alive. My name is Amber Marie Grey. I'm a non-binary, transgender woman with traits of both poles and a body and mind in sinc. I speak more softly, move less swiftly, feel more at peace, but woe to those who hurt what's mine. I can still call Jax temper, can still face and fight with those who try to cross me. I am wo-man, and I am whole!

Looking great there kiddo

[Ativan Prescribed]

The mistake that people make is to assign a gender to things that don't need to be, and that is most everything.
A woman who holds the land speed record for a woman died yesterday, and they make a big deal out of the fact that she was a woman racing at high speeds, as if it is unheard of or somehow harder for a woman.
But duh, she holds that record and I guess that kinda separates her from the boys and pretty much most men, so the fact that she is a woman really has little to do with the fact that she crashed and died, the point of it, not that she is a woman who died, she died, gender has little to do with that.
So many things that society deems to be one gender or another when it isn't something that even has a gender, the entire thing about ships being a woman and then all the other things that are considered to be a woman kinda gives you the idea of just how ridiculous the entire thing is.
Only people get to have gender or that is how it goes, and sex is for every living thing, your sex is a constant, your gender is what you think it is, it isn't up to anyone else, especially when they think ships are woman, they confuse sex with everything and then decide what gender is right for you, which they can't get away from the ship shit so they say it's the same as sex, but then why even have genders if it is the same thing and argue about it? If it is the same thing then just say sex and stop calling your sex your gender, they don't get to do that for you.
But then they have the arguments like woman shave their legs so you can't shave your legs because thats a womans thing, but when did that decision get made and by who?
It's the tools thing, as if that is a mans thing, when it isn't at all, most men are pretty bad at using tools, it really is something that woman use very well, temperament if that is a woman thing, feminine temperament, makes using tools a lot easier.
All my life I have wondered at how people come to the conclusions that you are this or that when they have no idea that you even exist.
I can't even think of gender as being polar, gender is the things that make you who you are, and NB is a handy term to use to shove the idea that others get to decide up their asses along with the stick they have upo there trying to pry their heads out with.
There isn't a single thing that defines a person's gender other than the person who's it is, why would anyone even think they can decide, like they think they can just call you bob if they want? Or any other name, they can't, you can have any name you want, even bob, but others don't get to choose for you.
You know they don't decide gender when you are born, they only decide your sex and they admit they can easily be wrong because they decide by your genitals, and those aren't a rock solid thing that decides your sex, those are a result of your sex and it may very well be the other one than what they decided, but they aren't going to lay the costs on people to get the true results, just how many X's and Y's are you sporting there? That is the real difference, not what is probably the result of them.
Gender is what you want it to be, if you want to label aspects of it as male or female, then you can, go right ahead, but other people can't make those decisions for you, their perspectives are not the same, how could they be?
Sp the bottom line of gender is the label system and that is strictly up to the individual, their labels, their definitions of those labels, you can make up entirely new labels, hows your forthenheimer doing as compared to theirs?
Cis binary people are not the people they think they are, there isn't even as many as they think, because they decided their neighbors gender in their binary cis way without even asking, they are rude and obnoxious that way, they don't have the power or even the actual knowledge to be making decisions on their own gender, because they are filled with conflicting information, just full of stuff that makes no sense because it is like conspiracy theories, which aren't theories, those are based on actual knowledge, not something that cousin frank told you about twenty years ago....
So their idea that they are a huge majority and that is how they decided that they get ito have it their way goes, but there are way more people who do identify as NB and then there are the trans people who move to one side or the other because it is who they are, but most people are really in the middle, the more people actually find out that they have been lied to and that they can decide for themselves, they do.
And if they do, then it is their right and not someones to say it is wrong, those people need to come to their senses and calm down.
And the very best thing that makes a ton of sense if you just think about it, there were no designated hunters and gatherers, they were a tribe and time to take down a mastodon, they all did their fair share, or they starved, same with when it was time to harvest grain or fruits or those miniature corn, they all did it together or they starved, if they relied solely on the men going out and hunting, while they were gone they would harvest and split, why share wit assholes that think they are the food kings.... See? it never ever happened as the woman did this and the men did that, and size wise, I'm sure there was a difference, but just try to take a woman down who knows her shit, I've seen more woman totally take the masculinity of a guy down just by kicking his ass, and telling him to stay down.There is no this is masculine and this is feminine, it might be to you, but who are you? If you know then why do you care about it then, do you think you're smart enough to make the decisions in life that people need to make for them? You are not just wrong, but an asshole for thinking you can.
If you think the world agrees with you, then you are probably the most wrong person ever, because everyone is different and thinks the way that is right for them, you can't make any decisions for me and I can't make yours for you, I can give an opinion and then say I haven't a clue really, and then I would be right, I haven't a clue...

So Amber Marie, you are right and you are stronger now, you know your truths and if you don't you are finding out and not taking anyone elses word for it, you have found out that you've been right all these years, like so many other people are finding.
Here's the sound of applause for all of you...

[Becky]

Aug 29, 2019 5:09:06 GMT 8 Amber Marie said:

I reread that post from the days not so long ago when I was finally trying to come to grips with myself. Days when I still couldn't admit even to myself who and what I was. Days when I broke, suicide attempt, hospitalization, nightmares, memories resurfacing, and me desperately trying to hold the line, pick and choose what I would and would not accept. Foolish foolish me. Repression is like a dam. Everything we can't bare to remember or deal with, shoved behind a wall that gets higher and thicker each year while it overflows with rage and depression. So heavy and so full that it begins to crack and crumble from its own weight. Last October, I was almost swept away as my dam burst. And behind it all, there I lay, huddled and shivering, unable to bare a light I hadn't seen in 56 years.
I've grown stronger since that day, and I stand on my own. Sometimes I'm still just as scared as I was on that day that I finally broke, but now, I face my fears. Noone but those who witnessed this time would recognize me. I am for the most part who I was meant to be. I'm most certainly non-binary, but not because I'm denying parts of myself, but rather because I've embraced my being as a whole. I still love a good pipe and a smooth scotch, still enjoy using my hands and still protect and provide for those I love, but Jax has been laid to rest. He doesn't need to protect me or hide me anymore. I legally bear the name and gender I knew was mine at age 4. I move through the world easily these days. I simply fit. My form has altered drastically and I no longer hate it or hate myself. I may be scared, I most certainly am damaged, but I'm healing and for the first time, I'm truly alive. My name is Amber Marie Grey. I'm a non-binary, transgender woman with traits of both poles and a body and mind in sinc. I speak more softly, move less swiftly, feel more at peace, but woe to those who hurt what's mine. I can still call Jax temper, can still face and fight with those who try to cross me. I am wo-man, and I am whole!

YOU ARE SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!

I'm crying tears of joy right now - seeing the smile on your face is everything.
<3