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Post by Olivenbaum 2014 on May 2, 2018 18:23:52 GMT 8
Sure, if this was a page for gender studies students, but this is a page for trans and genderqueer individuals, many of us have never taken gender studies. I have, and that's why I am the one replying to you. I'm grateful for any advice - whether educated or not (whatever it means; education should not interest me). But yes, maybe I secretly assumed that somebody would answer me who also deals with this terminology. I think you should reflect on the fact that you came to a social support network and expected trans people to put in the emotional and intellectual labour to teach you about linguistics when it has no bearing or benefit on our lives. Should I or could I? But as long as you 'think' I should. Let me think loudly why I entered this network. I did not know that this 'social support' does not include discussions about terminology or at least the possibility to put questions concerning terminology. What it does to people that they teach someone, you could leave that to the people themselves, couldn't you? And on teaching others about linguistics and benefit to the one that teaches: On the one hand, I think that teaching brings something to the teacher (as much as any social job). On the other hand, dealing with terminology of what I am doing with myself is, in my opinion, a huge gain for any individual who has the opportunity (for example, someone who can read and write and has Internet access). This does not mean that terminology is the only or only correct access to what it refers to. But in many minority forums, forums in which I am active, I often notice a lack of engagement with the simplest words, words that often carry many invisible rational and / or emotional implications for the people themselves. And as soon as we start to talk about it, we often realize the different assumptions that we seldom pronounce and that we daily precede in our practice. And it applies to people of any education. It's not that I am unwilling to help educate people, but you took a very privileged, entitled approach and even resisted what we were telling you. It is not the job of minorities to teach the privileged majority and you should think about that next time you have questions. Try to figure it out with the vast numbers of articles and information sources, or go a forum or website for linguists or academics, not a support network for trans people. I have trouble simply referring words such as 'educated' or 'privileged' to people or issues in whole. Being educated or privileged does not completely constituts me. No more than the fact that I am polyamorous or heterosexual. Why am I saying that? Because words such as 'educates' or 'privileged' are actually at least binary predicates; and therefore dependent on both a scale (What does it mean for example not to be educated or privileged?) and an aspect (in what are you educated or priviled: in having money, 10 years of school, having parents, food etc.?). That is why I can't agree so easily in singifying me as educated or my approach as very privileged. This is one of the reasons why I can't agree with you hypothesis (or is it a conclusion?): "It is not the job of minorities to teach the privileged majority and you should think about that next time you have questions." It is not their (their: also this concept is too general for me, since a person does not belong to a minority as far as his personality is concerned, but only as an aspect) job, you are right. But isn't it their free right to do so? (And who defines then what their understanding of 'free' is - about the majority, the educated?) We use this page to build community and support each other and celebrate our transitions and stay alive, not to define terms for cis academics. It is hard to answer to this as long as it implicates a lot. But anyway, good luck (from the heart of someone who belongs to a minority, of which expression in everyday life does not bring about benevolence). The real lesson here is not linguistics, it is that you need to think about what you are walking into, what you are taking for granted, what privileges you have, and what other options there are before you ever ask marginalized people to teach you. Lesson? So you are teaching me? Therefore you are not a minority? At least I'm not asking for teaching (is that something that you take for granted?), see it more as asking about experience and in this case about terminological use in everyday life. Each one has something to say I believe, each one has his own story to tell, although nobody has to. Im sure you now most or even all of my questions and distinctions... It is not my concern to justify myself. With my answers / reactions I just want to disclose what I do not agree with your sentences, why I do not understand certain conclusions and therefore why I don't understand, why the kind of my question is displaced here. - On the freedom on expression of opinion and on free tools for each kind of expression.
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Post by Avery on May 2, 2018 21:16:08 GMT 8
I'm not saying marginalized people can't teach you. I'm saying we shouldn't have to.
Accept that you came to the wrong place for what you were looking for and move on.
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Post by Olivenbaum 2014 on May 3, 2018 16:27:40 GMT 8
I'm not saying marginalized people can't teach you. I'm saying we shouldn't have to. Accept that you came to the wrong place for what you were looking for and move on. I'm saying we shouldn't have to: Let us assume that you have said it. Ok. But I'm asking myself and I'm asking you why you're saying that 'marginalized' people shouldn't have to teach me? Nobody here has forced anyone to learn and teach. (When I have done so, sorry, it was not my intention at all.) A good example for this absurdity: When I go to the baker and ask about the weather, it is their freedom to answer me, and that freedom should not be limited by his educated baker's assistant, who for some reason says, 'Hey questioner, my girlfriend, who belongs to a minority, should not have to teach you.' Is it then difficult to convince that there will then be questioning looks from both sides, from the questioner and from the person being asked? Accept that you came to the wrong place ...: To your style: Now you start to be destructive. According the content: Why to accept something that you don't see reasons for? Acception follows comprehended reasons or at least positively associated experiences, doesn't it? And ... I explained earlier why I am not in the wrong forum. So I have not only not reasons against (but I'm open for) but I have also reasons for the acception that I'm right here.
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Post by Becky on May 3, 2018 19:53:41 GMT 8
Olivenbaum, bitte, sei nicht ein Handschuhschneeballwerfer. Das ist genug.
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Post by Avery on May 4, 2018 0:22:15 GMT 8
And ... I explained earlier why I am not in the wrong forum. So I have not only not reasons against (but I'm open for) but I have also reasons for the acception that I'm right here. You are a guest here, and do not get to decide whether or not this is the right place for you. It's time to move on. You are no longer welcome. I do not know how to be more clear.
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Post by Olivenbaum 2014 on May 4, 2018 14:45:04 GMT 8
Olivenbaum, bitte, sei nicht ein Handschuhschneeballwerfer. Das ist genug. A little bit off topic (because on person and not on content)? But thanx for 'Handschuhschneeballwerfer'. It's a long time ago that I heard it.
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Post by Olivenbaum 2014 on May 4, 2018 15:35:49 GMT 8
And ... I explained earlier why I am not in the wrong forum. So I have not only not reasons against (but I'm open for) but I have also reasons for the acception that I'm right here. You are a guest here, and do not get to decide whether or not this is the right place for you. It's time to move on. You are no longer welcome. I do not know how to be more clear. Maybe you miss something? Your demand is (in terms of content) clear. But it does not necessarily follow that someone is pursuing this demand. And, I would not speak for everyone (regarding welcome). Beeing a guest: A kind of argumentum ad hominem? I try to respect every person, not least by the way I communicate; i.e. in which I refer to the content and not to the constitution, situation or status within the group in which the person is. Last but not least: Let's accept the metaphor of the guest and the host for a second. Strictly speaking, I created this room as a guest in this house (which allows for the concept of this forum, which I think is great) in a house of potentially infinite spaces. Everyone is invited to a conversation, can enter this room and leave it whenever she/he wants. And all other residents of the house will not be disturbed if they do not enter the room. Strictly speaking, I would have to throw people out of the room. But that can not be the concern. I do not want to decide if someone in my room is in the right place or not. In a room like this, where people communicate only through writing, the writer should not decide what the right place is, but rather the writing, the argument, the written exchange. PS: If somebody feels hurt, I'm the last to pass that on, I hope. I force no one to stay in the room and at the same time I offer to talk about how my statement has hurt certain feelings. (Unfortunately, you can not hug someone in such rooms.)
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Post by Avery on May 4, 2018 20:13:35 GMT 8
I'm not speaking for everyone but we have been discussing this threat in private messages so I'm not speaking alone either.
I am going to disengage now and will stop replying. It will be the same as if you left because no one else will reply either.
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