Incongruities between social and physical dysphoria

[Wormmms]

I know I'm posting all over the place tonight. I'm just excited to be here

Anyway- I was talking to my roommate today (also a genderqueer person) about this today, and I'm curious to see what other people have to say. 

I experience both physical and social dysphoria. However, the medical steps that I plan on taking to reduce my physical dysphoria would do very little (if anything) to treat my social dysphoria. The sad fact is that because enough aspects of how I choose to present correspond with the expected presentation of someone of my birth gender, and the things I want to change are not very visible, people (even other genderqueer people) will always assume I am cis. 

I need to decide how important the social dysphoria is to me. Is it important enough that people understand me as androgynous that I would change things about my appearance that don't bother me? 

How do you feel about this?
Does your social dysphoria line up with your physical dysphoria or are they at odds? 
Would you change something about yourself that doesn't bother you so that other people will read you as your correct gender?

[Taka]

i'm not changing things that don't bother me. that's why i seek help sort of outside the system here, since the system would demand that i present.

but i don't want to present or represent. the whole idea behind changing what bothers me is to become the person i truly am. not to live up to society's expectations of how a person like me should be.

we had a girl here who deeply regretted listening to society. society, and even her own family, were convinced that she was trans. and she started ftm transition as she believed in them and what they said sort of made sense. except that wasn't who she truly was.

don't change what doesn't bother you, the changes may end up bothering you and causing even more physical dysphoria.

actually, you should try to find some of echelon's posts about their experience too.

i don't care what society sees me as. they're mostly strangers who can do very little to affect my life, unless they use violence against me. though they generally don't.

family matters, but the younger members already know me as i am. a stranger calls me "cute", and i see that funny look in my brother's eyes when he hears it...

just don't judge a book by the cover. you're ajust book, and only the ones who'd care to read it will ever truly know you.

adapting to society is fine when younger, it seems people are biologically programmed to do that, in order to ensure survival. but as you become an adult, it will become ever harder to be someone you're not.

stay true to yourself, live without regrets.

[Trinity]

May 14, 2017 19:22:42 GMT 8 Wormmms said:

I know I'm posting all over the place tonight. I'm just excited to be here

Anyway- I was talking to my roommate today (also a genderqueer person) about this today, and I'm curious to see what other people have to say. 

I experience both physical and social dysphoria. However, the medical steps that I plan on taking to reduce my physical dysphoria would do very little (if anything) to treat my social dysphoria. The sad fact is that because enough aspects of how I choose to present correspond with the expected presentation of someone of my birth gender, and the things I want to change are not very visible, people (even other genderqueer people) will always assume I am cis. 

I need to decide how important the social dysphoria is to me. Is it important enough that people understand me as androgynous that I would change things about my appearance that don't bother me? 

How do you feel about this?
Does your social dysphoria line up with your physical dysphoria or are they at odds? 
Would you change something about yourself that doesn't bother you so that other people will read you as your correct gender?

You ask really good and deep questions.  It's nice to have these threads launched on forum, very cool.

Taka's response is amazing.   OMG its nice to have them posting again, soo soothing to the Fairy.

How do I feel?  About being identified correctly?   I live as me, most of the time.  Sometimes that is TS she, with very little voice modding which outs me immediately.  Sometimes, if I feel threatened, stealth she.  Sometimes, most times really, the androgyne is where I live, show, be.  And I don't care what they think of that.

My social dysphoria is not the same as my physical dysphoria.  My truth is that I am physically a full transition sh'e.  No surgeries.  That is who I am, that is what my sex is, that is all of me.

Now, outside, do I really want them to see me as I am, in the private places?  No.  Only one person on earth gets to see that.   Unless a doctor has to get in there.  Actually two people, I count as one.   And when my wife gets nervous, to remind her that I am the half and half, I reveal what's left of the male in me physically, so she can relax.  Somehow she thinks I could go to the store and buy a vagina and go home that day with it installed and she would then be a lesbian.

I don't rock the boat with her.  Let her believe what she wants to.

Let others read me socially as they want to.

BUT, in a ladies room, or when stealth is a thing, then I go deep stealth, out of necessity.

Would I change myself more?  Like FFS, or bottom surgery, or a boob job?

Not a chance.   I won't empower them with that.  And when I want to give visual clues as to who I am, its easy enough.

Nah, I got dialed in based on what I need to see, not what they need to see.   And then got to know myself as I really am.


I'm kind of only 4 years old now lol

Dunno if that helps.  And social dypshoria can really crush me at times.   When the girls head out on the subway Friday night to the disco's, dressed to attract a man and to get laid, I have one hell of a hard time.   But thats off thread, and a deep, deep pain.

And here's the thing there.  If a man wanted me, and I was stealth, I'd have to be pretty quick to let him know I am trans and not cis.  The last thing I'd ever need is that problem, its killed trans women before.  But... that's why we have mouths.  We just need to explain our deal if they are reading us differently from who we are.

Hope something in this is helpful.

Trinity

[Quill]

I don't experience a lot of physical dysphoria (yet-- I'm still new to discovering my non-binaryness). I guess I see my body as a tool, and as it is, that tool does pretty much all of the things I want it to. There are upsides and downsides to any changes I might consider making to my body, and I've been the way I am for long enough that I'm mostly comfortable with how I look and what my body does.

The social gets to me though... I think for me it's sort of an aspect of the way I felt like people around me were trying to erase who I was while I was growing up ( not just gender related, but basic stuff like: "No, you don't feel that way," "You should have the same interests as the other kids," etc.). For me, I feel it most, not necessarily with things that are inherently male or female, but things that are culturally coded one way or the other ("Boys don't like it when girls are smarter than they are," a general sense that I'm "too competitive 'for a woman'").

And I still wonder if that means I can actually call myself non-binary, or if I'm just female and broken...

I feel a lot of pressure to be "chill" about the ways I'm different from what people expect, and not show who I really am. But even if I hide sometimes, I wouldn't change anything about myself because somebody else thinks I should.

[Jennifer (Tink)]

For each person it will be different.

I was very beta in my relationship with the ex. I let her have all the power. Money, sex, just about everything in my life.

2 years ago when I started to figure out who I was, I started to take back that control. For me it meant standing up for myself.

A year ago when I came out I finally said "I don't give a fuck about what people think. Life is too short to live miserable" It was at that time I fully took back control of who I am and what I wanted in life.

What this meant for me was I concentrated on who I was and wanted to be. For my family it was hard. For my kids especially. But in time they are starting to accept it. Doesn't mean that they are happy with it but at least the meanness has stopped.

So from a social aspect, I just be me. I am confident enough that I wear what I want, act like I want and just be me. That has gotten me in trouble a few times. Physical attack and rape. But I wouldn't make a change even if it meant those things wouldn't happen. Basically it would mean I let them have the power. That's just not me now.

The physical dysphoria is something else. I have had super bad physical dysphoria since coming out. Actually it's far longer but I never realized it. However, I have to say, since finding a wonderful therapist and finally a doctor that will work with me for HRT on the physical dysphoria it has lessened a bit. Just knowing that the path is ahead has helped a lot.

So all in all, just start to work on yourself and your confidence in who you are. Fuck those who try to put you down. They have no power over you and how you feel. Only you have that power. And remember, we always have to take care of our self first. Nobody else will, so we are the ones that have to make it happen.

:hugs:

-- Jenn

[Leena]

May 14, 2017 20:01:42 GMT 8 Taka said:

i'm not changing things that don't bother me. that's why i seek help sort of outside the system here, since the system would demand that i present.

but i don't want to present or represent. the whole idea behind changing what bothers me is to become the person i truly am. not to live up to society's expectations of how a person like me should be.

we had a girl here who deeply regretted listening to society. society, and even her own family, were convinced that she was trans. and she started ftm transition as she believed in them and what they said sort of made sense. except that wasn't who she truly was.

don't change what doesn't bother you, the changes may end up bothering you and causing even more physical dysphoria.

My physical dysphoria primarily is with my facial and body hair. While they were caused by long term T running through my system, I'm just working on getting rid of the hair directly.

Actually, what triggered all of this about and made me come out to myself as trans 4 years ago was that my facial hair started to turn gray. I actually wore a mustache and goatee for much of my life, though I just did not like the gray look at all, made me feel like an old man.

I've really been taking things slowly, and because of that, here I am almost 4 years later and still have most of my facial hair. I bought a Tria home laser about a year ago, and while it has worked pretty well on my chest and arms, it hurts way too much to use on my face at a high enough setting to do anything. Actually burned my face pretty bad awhile back when I used it on the highest setting by accident, though it looks like the burn marks won't be permanent. I think now that it's healed, I'll just skip the professional laser place and go straight to electrolysis soon.

I don't know that I want to change other things by getting on HRT. I may change my mind about this at some point in the future, but I hope I'll mostly be OK with myself physically once the facial hair is gone.

I've changed the way I present socially, and I am not willing to go backwards at this point. I'll dial it back occasionally, though I'd prefer to not even do that. I like the way I present now, I don't feel comfortable pushing it to totally feminine right now, not sure that's really me. I don't really like dresses, I don't think I would wear them much even if I had a fully female body. It seems there still is some pressure to be almost a caricature of the opposite AAB gender, if one is not comfortable being their AAB gender, not just by binary trans people, but even more from cis-gender people. Whether I'm binary or non-binary, I'm just not a super feminine girl though I'm a bit closer to that than a masculine man.

[Yuki]

May 14, 2017 19:22:42 GMT 8 Wormmms said:

How do you feel about this?
Does your social dysphoria line up with your physical dysphoria or are they at odds? 
Would you change something about yourself that doesn't bother you so that other people will read you as your correct gender?

I'm just now getting around to reading this thread.

I guess, when I came back on here, I had to take some time to remember all of the reasons that I identify the way I do. I hadn't given it any thought in a month or so. That brought some anxiety back, I think... trying to pretend to be cis again for a little bit.

But... would I change things that don't bother me so other people will see me as the right gender?

No.

Society has a very binary view of gender. I'm not even sure how to go about getting random strangers to view me as neither. They are going to try to force one binary gender or the other on me, no matter how I look. But I feel just as far away from being a woman as I do from being a man. So how do I show people that?

I guess I do get some social dysphoria when people see me as female. But I'd probably get the same if they saw me as a man, for different reasons.

I kind of feel like a mix of both, but also completely unrelated to either one, at the same time.

My physical dysphoria is mainly for my chest. Maybe sometimes I wish my hips and thighs were smaller, but that depends more on what I'm wearing. I probably wouldn't be happy all the time either way, so I might as well just leave it alone.

I do wish nonbinary was more accepted, and society as a whole saw it as a valid gender. (Like, you know how there are ads targeted towards men and women? Add nonbinary people as a third group in those.) Then, maybe I wouldn't feel pressure to live up to one side or the other.

I say that, because one problem I do have is that I feel unwanted and unlovable for being nonbinary. Like there's no place for me. My husband tells me that he feels honored to be married to a nonbinary person, because not many people can say that. But it's still hard not to feel like he should be ashamed of me, sometimes.

But that's because of society. Everything is male or female.

Idk, that's how I feel about all of it.