Captains
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captains
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or they/them/they're. the latter is my baseline; im experimenting!
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Post by Captains on Nov 24, 2014 15:23:21 GMT 8
Just something I've been thinking about recently. It seems like a decent portion of us - binary and nonbinary, and myself included - think of ourselves as boys/girls/children, rather than men/women/adults. Has anyone else noticed that? Adulthood feels so out of reach to me as a young person, doubly so as a trans person whose androgyny often reads to the world as prepubescence. I call myself a boi/boy, because I can't quite picture anything else. I've spoken with other folks who feel like they're recapturing the childhood they were barred from the first time, altho I don't feel that way myself, as thankfully, my own upbringing was astonishingly gender neutral.
Sometimes I worry that this reflective of my inability to grow up; that I'm trapping myself in a childish mindset. And that, at 22, I should see myself, if not as a woman, then as a man, as an adult. The other day, my gender therapist asked if I had pictured my future as a man, and I had no answer. It spooked me a little. I felt like ''yes and no,'' that I'd imagined boyhood, but that true, self-actualized, manhood was too far in the future to even daydream about.
I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed this, wondered about this? And what thoughts y'all might have?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 15:32:41 GMT 8
I haven't really noticed it among the trans community at large, but I can personally relate to it. I nearly always refer to myself as a girl, a trans girl, etc. I don't like being referred to as a woman, for some reason. It feels too... rigid. Too... I dunno. It feels like it carries with it a certain level of seriousness that I simply don't possess. When it comes down to it, I never grew up in a lot of ways, and don't ever plan to. Being an adult sucks. I'm nearly 28, FYI.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Nov 24, 2014 15:39:02 GMT 8
I had a gender neutral upbringing as well, my parents never felt the need to enforce me to wear skirts or dresses. I just wore both shorts and skirts, whatever I liked. I also wore a cat tail when I was little and I now have a stash of cat tails in my closet that I pull out to wear on days where I give no hoots what anyone thinks of my ears and tail
It weirds me out to be seen as a man or being referred to as one. I think of myself as a child in an adult (soon-to-be) man's body, I will follow the "rules" but I will still be free to dabble in my child-like nature ... which is like all the time, save for serious stuff like appointments or employment.
Which brings me to the next stage of manhood... having romantic and/or sexual relationships, marriage and a family. These things don't interest me at all and I have been quite happy to just live by myself. Call it selfish, but I don't want to share my freedom or my life with anyone else, with friends, yes... but a significant other? No thanks. I have seen people in marriages and in relationships where they feel suffocated because they constantly have to factor the other person into their decisions but I have also seen partners who are happy and go on regular dates with each other.
Growing up sounds scary. I don't have the emotional capability to understand, much less feel grief. One of my primary school teachers died from a heart attack, most of the classmates were in tears and I only ended up crying because I couldn't understand why I wasn't feeling grief or sad like the others. I don't understand crying over the loss of another person. All I do is cherish the memories I had with them and carry on with my life, as harsh as that sounds. I always wonder, what will happen when my parents pass away? Will I grieve their loss and finally "grow up"? Or will I talk as if they are still alive and continue living my life the way I've always done, being happy and fulfilled..?
Edit: I turned 25 this year. Btw, this is a fantastic topic, Captains!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 15:51:08 GMT 8
Jacey, oh my gosh, the mental image of you with a tail and cat ears! So cute!
And, hey, if you only remember the good times and aren't affected by grief, that's nothing to feel bad about, in my view. I only wish I had that ability. Seeing Nero's memorial recently almost made me break down in tears, and we weren't even close.
As for romantic relationships, they aren't all so dull and constraining. You just have to find someone who is as playful as you are and who you relate to well. I don't feel like mine requires me to act any more "adult," or make compromises I'm unhappy with.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 18:34:33 GMT 8
Don't grow up, it's a trap.
I am older than all of y'all and I am still doing my best to not be an adult.
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Post by Taka on Nov 24, 2014 21:09:44 GMT 8
there is no more childish thought than the belief that growing up holds value.
grow up! they say. but why?
there are so many better ways to fix most problems. like stop being mean to others or start being nice to them. take responsibility for your own economy. little kids are able to do that too. my own dad left home when he was 13.
work is always more fun if it's a game. playing with your colleagues, wouldn't that be nice? life is a game, we all participate in the same play. roles can be taken or thrown away, everything can be changed.
peter pan, why did he resist growing up? maybe for the same reason as i resist growing into the woman everybody expected me to become. i do not wish to be bound by rules that forbid play. being a member of society, i have to take some responsibility for myself. but i will not grow up any further than that.
any unmarried man is still a boy btw. age is irrelevant, any married woman can call him a boy. a woman is something i am only when acting as my daughter's parent. i could just as well be a man though, without anyone realizing. in all other senses, i'm still something of a child.
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TDude
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Post by TDude on Nov 27, 2014 5:16:49 GMT 8
yes and no
I feel many transgender people feel diffrently about age than alot of cisgenders due to our life experience or lack of experience, but as I see it its goes both ways.
When I was around 15 I noticed that I felt diffrent than many of my classmates, My teacher also pointed out that my life somehow was more mature than my current age. people on the net would usunally asume I was much older and when I started meeting other transpeople I noticed some of them had simular experiences. We found the generalization of what or age ment for our maturity level misplaces, We could not relate in the same ways to our classmates and rather prefern going out having friend and flirt with people much older than us which we could relate to. I think it somehow may be typical cause being trans you can easly getalot of life experience in a short time. When I was 14 I did not think much about party and Iphone or what I would be when I grew up. I thought about whenever or not I would still be alive at the age of 20 and such questions which usunally older people would worry about. I also experience alot of thing mentally and non-mentally related to being trans, in that sense I got more options to grow.
On the other hand I also see it diffrently of people who had not the posibility to express there youth and when they are very old this may seam abit odd for people but again I find this to be logical. I also did this, when I transitioned I started living a more "normal life" going out to party and being a "typical teeneger" it may not had seen so wierd since I was still young but I can feel that I have been a few years back in time cause while I had very big struggles and questions in my mind from the age of 14 where people would start thinking about party and school, I now at the age of 19 had to start living my life and think about "typical teeneger" stuff like for the first time. - So yeah my conclusion is I think its logical cause since we had diffrent experience the way we get mature or are viewed as mature or non-mature changes. its not only for transgenders, if you have tried something big in your life like being in war for a young age then you may also think very deep in a level most teens would not be able to compare themself with, but which adult who had experience death of someone dear could relate to can and therefore be viewed much more mature than your age. In some way it not just our life experience but how its viewed, I got a friend in Agentina she lives at home and its very common there, I also lives at home but here its seen as immature and I feel kinda shamefull, she cant understand that.
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TDude
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Post by TDude on Nov 27, 2014 5:33:28 GMT 8
btw I dont get why people want to grow old. I dont want that I just want the priviliges but still be young and crazy lol. - for myself I feel a mix of younger than my age and older. I have a young look and I live at home enjoying eating cake and candy with teddybears in my room reading comics, in that way im pretty childlish and I like that.
on the other hand I feel difficult to relate to many people younger than me or at my age. it actually wierd when I first stated out that im rather childlish but I feel alot of people in my age are trying very hard to be mature and perfect. the "youth culture is very much about getting good grade, moving from home having a part time job, then using the money on booze cigerats and fashion." sure this is a generalization and I also got friends at my age and younger which are more interesting, but in general alot of people around my own age are boring to me.
So I kinda feel older but also younger than my age, I notice the way I speak is mostly older than my current age. a few people have pointed that out to me even when I try not to decribe myself as a man or a boy just a "guy" or "youth"
(btw im 21)
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Asche
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Post by Asche on Nov 27, 2014 23:27:53 GMT 8
In one respect I do want to be a grown-up. To me, a "grown-up" is someone who is responsible. I have two kids who, though nominally adult, still need a _lot_ of taking-care of. There are a lot of chronological adults who aren't grown-ups in that sense. For that matter, the world seems to be run mostly by petulant brats. On the other hand, I see no reason to put any effort into "image." My old boss used to get weirded out, I think, by how willing I was to admit I was wrong or didn't know answers. I think he thought being grown up meant trying to con everyone into thinking you were all-knowing and infallable. And I don't put much stock in acting dignified. It's true, I don't climb trees (cf. the song "I won't grow up"), but that's because my old bones can't be relied on to get me up and down them in one piece, not because I think there's anything wrong with a 61-year-old climbing trees. I still haven't decided what I want to be when I grow up I think I'll still be playing when I finally run out of quarters....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 1:41:08 GMT 8
Don't grow up, it's a trap. I am older than all of y'all and I am still doing my best to not be an adult. Uh - I doubt that Tinkerbelle, I'm 71 in actual years but close to 21 in transitioned years and a bona fide member of the Peter Pan Society from way back when!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 1:42:57 GMT 8
Well I was at that point in the convo
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 1:43:40 GMT 8
Well I was at that point in the convo
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Post by Ayla on Nov 28, 2014 4:48:46 GMT 8
Great thread this - similar to TDude my experience of life as a seriously focused binary alpha male was to grow up quickly, exceed all expectations and never draw attention to myself just in case someone looked a little too closely and realized that the whole thing was a construct. Apart from a dry, in reality a cynical sense of humor and a passion for sports, people and learning I didn't look too closely at myself just in case my worst fears were confirmed. All I all I 'succeeded', my 84 year old father still doesn't accept that I am trans.
- however once I better understood myself and discovered that I was trans, and assumed I was binary mtf I became even more serious. Massively focused on my next project, my transition from mature male to mature female. Funnily enough along the way I understood myself to be non binary and more fundamentally I understood that I needed to understand me, accept me and give voice and expression to me. This has given me the permission to access aspects of myself which I had locked away, the strong silent type was jettisoned; the empathetic, sensitive and supportive type asserted themself and I started to have fun, trying on various aspects and seeing what worked for me and what didn't. So in many ways I feel young, I feel that all possibilities exist and I no longer feel the need to conform to expectations. The difficult conversations have been had and now consider myself to be self authoring.
- but I do carry my male socialization with me. Like Julie I can be the directive Program Director, the consultative partner, the supportive coach, good company without fear or an agenda, less ego driven, less self focused, less self conscious and enjoy this new found breadth of capability that I feel free to express.
Folk say that my personality has changed more than my appearance (and believe me many don't recognize me as the alpha male they knew just 5 years ago), I say I am growing and I am having fun, I am enjoying my new found licence to meet life on my terms and to shape a future that honours the life that I have been given by my parents.
Safe travels
Aisla
Ps I am now closer to 60 than I am to 50, but in many ways I feel like I am just graduating high school and the world is full of opportunity and promise. So yes I am probably a Peter Pan who is growing (not necessarily up probably more growing out), I still love fantasy and faerie, and occasionally I suspect that this world is a version of Never Never Land. Flying, not so good, but Ativan tells me that a winged suit is the solution. Scuba diving high on a coral wall and swooping down and rising up is probably the closest I have come to joining Peter Pan. At depth, when the narcosis kicks in, I sometimes glimpse him in the corner of my mask and smile in recognition.
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Donna Troy
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Post by Donna Troy on Nov 29, 2014 11:47:17 GMT 8
Wow that's so creepy but yeah, i also see myself as a girl and not a woman, i never to rarely use the word woman to describe myself.
I thought i was just me, because i miss my childhood a lot (with the only flaw that i wasn't a girl, i was rich and had a loving family).
It's hard to see myself as a woman, i'm 25 and i still see myself as a kid.
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Post by Edge on Nov 29, 2014 11:52:27 GMT 8
I used to have trouble thinking of myself as an adult, but not anymore. I don't know if it's because it was just time, because I'm the oldest of my friends, or because I'm finally going through the right puberty, but I see myself as an adult. That said, I firmly believe that being a "grown up" means knowing and accepting that one will never be done growing up and will continue to grow and change throughout their life. So in, a way, no one is ever actually grown in the past tense.
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