How long can one's body cope if they are sterile and HRT is ceased?

[EchelonHunt]

Genuinely curious as when I move to the UK, I will be roughly waiting up to a year until I would be able to see someone about HRT, unless I decide to go private, in which case, it would be sooner.

Since I am on 3 monthly injections, I would assume I would be able to take 4 x 4ml vials along with a letter from my endocrinologist, saying this medication is part of my treatment for gender dysphoria, should airport security raise any eyebrows.

If people get their ovaries or testicles removed, doctors say you MUST be on HRT to delay the risk of developing osteoporosis. But doesn't the pituitary gland in the brain produce hormones too? Wouldn't that area bump up its source if it recognises the body's source of hormones (biological or HRT) are removed?

[Trinity]

I think you are correct. I would be more concerned about loss of energy and strength. Stockpiling the hormones with the letter and the needles and syringes makes sense to me.

[Deleted]

I would think at your age that it would take a while for osteoporosis to set in. I mean there are some post menopausal women that do not take hormone replacements. Just throwing that out there. But I would definitely do like Trinity suggested and stockpile and take a letter from hour doctor. Also if you have to wait up to a year, I would suggest going private if need be and try to work out an arrangement in cash. Most doctors here in the states give a hell of a discount if you pay cash instead of using insurance. The UK I am not so sure about. For instance my GP if I have a cold or whatever will charge me 50 dollars if I pay cash and bills insurance 90. The reason being is that his normal office visit is 90 dollars but if he gets a check he can deposit that day and have his funds to use it the next business day instead of waiting sometimes months then it is worth what he loses. Besides the insurance company is going to negotiate down to 60 anyway.

The medical field is just like anything else with services rendered. Shop around and negotiate in cash and it is a lot cheaper. Doctors are just like everyone else. They would rather get paid promptly for what they do instead of wait a month or so to be paid.

[EchelonHunt]

I have not taken my low-dose T for weeks. I lost count how many weeks, perhaps a month and a half?

Haven't noticed any extreme side-effects.

Just am noticing I can't handle high stress levels but I have always been unable to deal with stress levels in the past. The last few weeks of studies for the year are always stressful due to the schedule.

[Trinity]

Nov 7, 2016 18:02:39 GMT 8 EchelonHunt said:

I have not taken my low-dose T for weeks. I lost count how many weeks, perhaps a month and a half?

Haven't noticed any extreme side-effects.

Just am noticing I can't handle high stress levels but I have always been unable to deal with stress levels in the past. The last few weeks of studies for the year are always stressful due to the schedule.

For mtf trans its a real bad idea. I have friends who stopped and it cost them physically.

[Leena]

Nov 8, 2016 6:32:13 GMT 8 Trinity said:

Nov 7, 2016 18:02:39 GMT 8 EchelonHunt said:

I have not taken my low-dose T for weeks. I lost count how many weeks, perhaps a month and a half?

Haven't noticed any extreme side-effects.

Just am noticing I can't handle high stress levels but I have always been unable to deal with stress levels in the past. The last few weeks of studies for the year are always stressful due to the schedule.

For mtf trans its a real bad idea. I have friends who stopped and it cost them physically.

How did it cost them physically?

From an osteoporosis standpoint, keeping Calcium levels up is critical. Also, Calcium requires Vitamin D to work, so if one doesn't have much sun exposure, that is needed also.

[EchelonHunt]

Yes, how did it cost them physically, how long did it take from when they stopped HRT to when they noticed it was costing them physically (and not just dysphoria-wise)? Were they post-orchi?

[Trinity]

Post orchi.

I dont know the technical terms. They got pretty sick, its not just one thing, it affected their ankles, contibuted to diabetes, mental affects...we wernt designed not to have hormones. Her body got all fucked up, she went back on them and some of the damage reversed.

Some is permanent it was long term and she was post op.

She didnt want to take her shot because it reminded her she was dependant on meds to be a woman. She went into denial. Trans women have special needs. Some things like post op dilation if you do grs, or like hormones, which are for life, just have to be accepted.

They play down the big decision to do hrt. Thats a disservice. Its for life, not something to just try to see if you like it. Its the big time.

But yes, for mtf trans, hrt is to the grave once the journey is done.

My testicles have atrophied from spiro. There is no going back. They are finished, kaput. My t levels off everything were at 35 peak.

I felt like shit when they backed me down to e levels of 15. Im over 400 again.

But yes, her cardio vascular and endocrine system were not good, and it may also have messed with her diabetes.

I vould find out more. But thats the gist of it.

[Trinity]

It was subtle, slow. Flip side my dad has zero t to fight stage 4 prostae cancer. He is fine but has felt like shit for quite a while.

I dont know about the ftm hormone side. Just mtf side.

[EchelonHunt]

I'm thinking of going back on injections again. 1 injection every three months is easier for me to handle than underarm treatment everyday. Doing it everyday reminded me that I'm not "normal" and that I need everyday solution on my underarm to feel "normal"

It put me off it. I stopped doing it. Kind of like her. I went into denial. I just don't like the idea of being dependent on something for the rest of my life.

But with injections, I do it once, then its three months of not having to worry about injections til the next time rolls around, I get some sense of normalcy and feel like I can live my life a little easier than before.

Plus, I got my gender marker changed to M, injections will be laughably cheap compared to before.

I want to try estrogen but my therapist said going on estrogen entirely would be "going backwards", WHY does it have to be viewed as going backwards?! I'm not de-transitioning, I just want to be a male who is on estrogen, a feminine male! She said having a stable dose of T and E would be more likely to work in my favour.

I also DO NOT want to lose any more hair, have my voice go any deeper, have my facial hair/body hair grow any more thicker. Basically, I am happy where my body has masculinised to and don't wish for it to any more masculine than it already is.

I am just so angry. But she also said losing weight and getting fit would be easier on T so there's that, I guess.

[Trinity]

The comment on resenting the dependence on a drug to feel ok is kind of classic, I have heard it before in other trans people. We resent that we have to take medications to feel ok. But is it transformative medication, or is it medication to make up for lack of hormones because of what our special needs are, and that we need to compensate for our brain/body mismatch? Thank God we have these options.

You, in my opinion, have a difficult mix needed to feel well, similar to a preop TS woman or NB person etc. You would in theory need to have a mix of E and T to simulate a low dose male androgyne hormone level, and that should be possible to dial in. It is a specific nonbinary hormone replacement therapy and would most likely require someone in support that could understand how to help nonbinary trans medically.

Personally I think you need that androgyne cocktail shot of both T and E. E will suppress T in an MTF female, it does mine. I just started adding progesterone into my hrt, low dose, through the scalp. The side effects are kicking my butt, I either have a virus, or for the sake of my hormone balances, I am having to endure a ramp up of progesterone from hell. My muscles are in a lot of pain, and I don't know why.

Its another HRT drug in the mix. I don't know how it would affect you. Maybe badly, who knows.

Let me see what I can find out.

[Trinity]

This is what I just posted to the mtf girls on that hormone site. Lets see if they respond.

"I have no place I know of where I can ask this question, except here.

Question for a nonbinary friend seeking help living in Australia.

Post op AFAB male. They don't feel well on testosterone alone, it is taking them too far to the male side or transition. They want to/ need to be in between.

The question is whether there is any harm in a post op person in taking both testosterone and estrogen to achieve low levels of each.

Can they do that? Or does that cancel each other out?

Are there any recomendations of HRT care for nonbinary bodied transpeople?

Personally I am full female bodied mtf transition. So I have no idea."

[Trinity]

The drug "Progesterelle" which is topical progesterone applied to the scalp will halt any hair loss being experienced in either mtf or males. It also will raise your progesterone levels in your own body. That will be accompanied by the typical affects associated with progesterone, and I am not a good source for how that would affect you. It most certainly has affected me.

The full dose is 0.5cc nightly. I do low dose at .25 nightly, I just started this.

Rogaine also works to keep hair going, without the hormone hit.

Regardless, you are into some uncharted waters here, with all the emotional storm that goes with HRT. YMMV. I have no idea what any of this could do to, or for, you. What I do know is the complete absence of hormones has caused issues for my friends, at some level or other. And lack of energy and depression is one of the symptoms of hormone deficiency.

I know just enough to be dangerous here. So take it with a grain, don't let me give you bad advice that could kill you or destabilize your brain honey. Hormones are extremely powerful. Think of it as nitroglycerin.

Just IMO.

Trinity

[Trinity]

From the HRT forum -

"My experience is that estradiol and testosterone do clash with each other, and trying to have high levels of both doesn't work. Estriol doesn't seem to clash with testosterone nearly as badly though, so that's one estrogen you can take in combination with T without it mucking things up too badly (I've been using the Smoky Mountain Naturals, which is the strongest estriol cream on the market). Progesterone seems to be fine with T too (the cream anyway)."


Am I going in the wrong direction?  Is there a question you would like me to pass on to that group, that I can copy and paste into it?  I don't want to misunderstand what you need.

[EchelonHunt]

Its ok, thank you Trinity.

Lack of energy levels and depression is exactly what I'm going through the past few days, today is another day I've skipped out of going to class due to zero energy and zero motivation.

I will start taking my low-dose T underarm thing again and make an appointment to see my endo. I've been meaning to as I want to discuss with him about my options and he may be willing to suggest something.