inherit
131
0
1
May 13, 2024 23:20:30 GMT 8
7,160
Trinity
DES Trans
14,582
Nov 5, 2015 13:41:59 GMT 8
November 2015
trinity
Non-Binary
Sh'e, H'er, they them, she, he, whatever....
Bisexual
Faithfully Married.
|
Post by Trinity on May 31, 2016 3:29:24 GMT 8
More important is you feel that the DES controversy is hirting folks asking "why me"?
The idea that trans is a choice is a killer. Its sure wasnt a choice for me. It does help me though in talking to my wife. If she thought I had a choice, Id be on the street. Its not a choice for any of us, imo.
And you are right, we want the answers about why.
Being trans hurts. But i would not want to be cis.
|
|
inherit
184
0
Jun 1, 2016 2:50:15 GMT 8
20
Jamie2
35
Apr 29, 2016 14:09:01 GMT 8
April 2016
jamie2
|
Post by Jamie2 on May 31, 2016 4:19:11 GMT 8
You said: "More important is you feel that the DES controversy is hirting folks asking "why me"?"
DES causing people to be trans is nothing more than a "rumor."
And you know what's done with rumors, right?
They get debunked as true or false, because letting rumors fester is not a good thing.
DES causing people to be trans can't even pass the common sense test because of the timeline, so this DES rumor shouldn't be allowed to infect the trans community.
You have no idea how much similar nuttiness I've been exposed to since transitioning.
I've sat in support groups and listened to trans people say things like "male to female trans people who are intersex can only produce female babies." And three hundred pound trans women telling me how they have a natural abundance of estrogen that gave them breasts before transition. Of course they did, being that fat upsets the endocrine system. You can read that in any medical literature.
All this junk goes back to everyone looking for something to blame trans on when science doesn't yet have that answer. But of course some of the current alternatives are that we are autogynephilia perverts, trans is a mental illness, or we're autistic, so things like DES start looking quite good to latch onto, don't they?
|
|
inherit
131
0
1
May 13, 2024 23:20:30 GMT 8
7,160
Trinity
DES Trans
14,582
Nov 5, 2015 13:41:59 GMT 8
November 2015
trinity
Non-Binary
Sh'e, H'er, they them, she, he, whatever....
Bisexual
Faithfully Married.
|
Post by Trinity on May 31, 2016 4:57:47 GMT 8
You said: "More important is you feel that the DES controversy is hirting folks asking "why me"?" DES causing people to be trans is nothing more than a "rumor." And you know what's done with rumors, right? They get debunked as true or false, because letting rumors fester is not a good thing. DES causing people to be trans can't even pass the common sense test because of the timeline, so this DES rumor shouldn't be allowed to infect the trans community. You have no idea how much similar nuttiness I've been exposed to since transitioning. I've sat in support groups and listened to trans people say things like "male to female trans people who are intersex can only produce female babies." And three hundred pound trans women telling me how they have a natural abundance of estrogen that gave them breasts before transition. Of course they did, being that fat upsets the endocrine system. You can read that in any medical literature. All this junk goes back to everyone looking for something to blame trans on when science doesn't yet have that answer. But of course some of the current alternatives are that we are autogynephilia perverts, trans is a mental illness, or we're autistic, so things like DES start looking quite good to latch onto, don't they? A rumor and nuttiness. Pardon my feanch but bullshit. Way over the top. And then autog and perverts etc. We are done. Thread dead and discussion finished. Tomorrow this thread gets deleted.
|
|
inherit
184
0
Jun 1, 2016 2:50:15 GMT 8
20
Jamie2
35
Apr 29, 2016 14:09:01 GMT 8
April 2016
jamie2
|
Post by Jamie2 on May 31, 2016 7:58:13 GMT 8
|
|
inherit
131
0
1
May 13, 2024 23:20:30 GMT 8
7,160
Trinity
DES Trans
14,582
Nov 5, 2015 13:41:59 GMT 8
November 2015
trinity
Non-Binary
Sh'e, H'er, they them, she, he, whatever....
Bisexual
Faithfully Married.
|
Post by Trinity on May 31, 2016 8:28:52 GMT 8
I wont delete it.
But I wont debate it either.
With respect, your current remarks are irrelevent to the discussion.
So I really have no comment, except that I do appreciate the stats on addiction, which is the battle I fight.
Let it rest Jamie. We are not on the same page here.
Enjoy the night. Seriously, sleep well. Ptsd is a bitch.
|
|
inherit
jasonmitchellemail@gmail.com
1
0
1
Dec 31, 2023 12:41:47 GMT 8
3,521
EchelonHunt
Avatar by @hitsukuya
3,193
Nov 17, 2014 22:05:35 GMT 8
November 2014
admin
|
Post by EchelonHunt on Jun 1, 2016 0:46:43 GMT 8
Jamie2, you aren't debating, you are arguing that DES is BS, junk science, a rumour to a person who is living DES.
You have the right to disagree and believe whatever you like but that doesn't give you the right to invalidate another person's experience by arguing with them that DES is fake, not provable, etc.
If you cannot disagree respectfully, walk away.
Also, can you please refrain from posting links that are irrelevant to the discussion? (E.g "those who are behind the leader of DES, here's what she has to say about other things.")
Remember the forum's number 1 rule: "Treat others how you'd wish to be treated."
What you believe to be the truth doesn't discount another person's truth.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
22
0
May 15, 2024 8:10:18 GMT 8
Deleted
0
May 15, 2024 8:10:18 GMT 8
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 1:52:22 GMT 8
I do not think that DES is the only cause of a person being transgender. Hell throughout all of history there are many possible cases of transgenderism. Some cultures have and still do accept it. Others, not so much. Hell even in our old west days, what about Calamity Jane? Trans or lesbian. Joan of Arc? A great warrior but did God really tell her to take up a sword and fight like a man? Or did she use that excuse to express herself as a man? Not doubting the whole deal but rather maybe in a time where the Church had so much control that was the only way she could express herself. And then.... Sadly she was executed by the church and then made a Saint later. Personally I believe it has to do with fetal development in the womb and being exposed to certain hormones more than others. I mean we all start out as female and then our brains trigger other hormones that turn a fetus into a boy. I think trans is a human condition to a select few. I would not really call it a birth defect but in order to keep peace and harmony I will call it a birth anomaly since so many of us knew something was not right and matched completely up with our birth genders. I remember one Christmas when I was about 4 or 5 years old and I got a toy motorcycle that I could ride, an electric train set and a baby doll that my mom bought extra for my girl cousins. I most definitely gravitated to the doll more than anything else. later own it was Barbie dolls and to hell with being Ken. Some pretty big "indicators" there. I personally believe there should be four genders at least. The common M and F and them maybe an MF and FM. The M and the F could be used when genetalia and gender perception line up and the MF and FM could be used according to what you feel the strongest gender pull toward. Yes I know that there is NB, Andro, GQ, and so on but baby steps right? Most people understand right no MTF and FTM and the idea of gender is getting more and more attention so to make things at a chewable bite that most folks won't choke on, MF and FM. The first being the gender you identify with and the second being the genetalia you were born with. I know this sound stupid but you have to start somewhere and little steps at first make bigger ones easier to accept. As for the DES debate though. We are here and we have always been here. I wonder how many have died at their own hands since the dawn of self realization? I wish someone would actually do a legitimate study about through out history and multicultures what the ratio between MTF and FTM has been. Maybe one day. I don't have the resources but until it is a subject that is taken seriously, usually by accusations of fault and big money defending their position and other big money trying to make them responsible then we may get some research done on the subject. Personally though. I believe DES magnified what nature does naturally. It maybe the reason why the MTFs outnumber the FTMs today. But also society maybe playing a role too. We tend to go through stages of maternal and paternal society as a whole. That is changing and has been for a while. More women are on level playing fields as men. More women are going to college and more female CEOs at big corporations and a lot of women are doing what was predominately male physical labor instead of being "barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen". Sorry couldn't resist the hillbilly sexist thang. Did DES make me trans? I don't know. Did nature make me trans? I don't know that either. Did a higher power make me trans? I don't know that either. To all three questions and the answers to, I could give a rat's ass. I am trans and I am extremely freakin' lucky. Yeas it has caused me some hard times but those hard times have made me stronger. It has made me consider suicide and made me think, "Why give society the satisfaction to let them know they got to me that bad." It has allowed me to see and experience both sides and feel so many more emotions and the range of emotions that cis don't seem to feel. It has allowed me to confidently stick my middle finger to society and ignorance. It has allowed me to educate a lot of gay and lesbian friends that still don't really understand the T in the equation. I am special as a human being. We all are. We are all unique and I really feel more sorry for the Cis population than I do the Trans population. We truly are lucky even though it seems like a curse at times, it is a great gift if we just embrace it. We can hide it from the rest of society but we will always feel it. We can also blend both aspects. Hell I caught hell with two pierced ears in the early eighties. Never could figure out which one was the gay ear but, fuck it. I got trans ears. Plus why waste money buying a pair of earings and only wear one? What made me trans? I don't know. Actually I don't really care. It is such a big part of me that without being trans I wouldn't be me. So no use being mad over it. It happened, DES or not. DES may have helped it along but it is who I am and I actually enjoy embracing the femine way more than the masculine. So without DES, I may have been flushed down the toilet as an early miscariage. Or without DES I may have been born MTF trans anyway. Either way, it is a part of me and I wouldn't change a fucking thing. Not even all the Bullshit I grew up with. All that Bullshit made me stronger somehow because I am so hard headed but still so soft hearted that I am in tears writing this. Espoecially for those that could not handle all the bullshit. But that is just me. I love being able to see a much "bigger picture" than a lot of people. I love experienceing not just one set of exclusive emotions that are either male or female but both sets. So don't jsut count out DES. This may still be going on with big Pharma. But you know, I'm not angry if it was big pharma that made me trans. A million dollar settlement would be nice though. But I am grateful to be trans for everything that I mentioned above, all I have now in my life and all the friends that I have made in my life. Especially here. Not to mention really close IRL friends from the old days that I share my secret with and keep it. Personally though, I focus on who I am and how I can be a better person instead of what made me that way. My exes may not think that way but future partners are my focus. Or a future partner.
|
|
inherit
184
0
Jun 1, 2016 2:50:15 GMT 8
20
Jamie2
35
Apr 29, 2016 14:09:01 GMT 8
April 2016
jamie2
|
Post by Jamie2 on Jun 1, 2016 3:05:08 GMT 8
Jamie2, you aren't debating, you are arguing that DES is BS, junk science, a rumour to a person who is living DES. You have the right to disagree and believe whatever you like but that doesn't give you the right to invalidate another person's experience by arguing with them that DES is fake, not provable, etc. If you cannot disagree respectfully, walk away. Also, can you please refrain from posting links that are irrelevant to the discussion? (E.g "those who are behind the leader of DES, here's what she has to say about other things.") Remember the forum's number 1 rule: "Treat others how you'd wish to be treated." What you believe to be the truth doesn't discount another person's truth. Sorry, I think Beyer is a nutbag. Did you read about her menstrual periods with male biology? The articles says the doctors couldn't find a cause? And I'm supposed to believe her DES theory? I just don't have the tolerance for what I'm exposed to by parts of the trans community. Last night I had a trans guy arguing to me that biology is a social construct, that it doesn't exist. You're right, walking away is a good choice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
22
0
May 15, 2024 8:10:18 GMT 8
Deleted
0
May 15, 2024 8:10:18 GMT 8
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2016 1:37:09 GMT 8
Jamie2, you aren't debating, you are arguing that DES is BS, junk science, a rumour to a person who is living DES. You have the right to disagree and believe whatever you like but that doesn't give you the right to invalidate another person's experience by arguing with them that DES is fake, not provable, etc. If you cannot disagree respectfully, walk away. Also, can you please refrain from posting links that are irrelevant to the discussion? (E.g "those who are behind the leader of DES, here's what she has to say about other things.") Remember the forum's number 1 rule: "Treat others how you'd wish to be treated." What you believe to be the truth doesn't discount another person's truth. Sorry, I think Beyer is a nutbag. Did you read about her menstrual periods with male biology? The articles says the doctors couldn't find a cause? And I'm supposed to believe her DES theory? I just don't have the tolerance for what I'm exposed to by parts of the trans community. Last night I had a trans guy arguing to me that biology is a social construct, that it doesn't exist. You're right, walking away is a good choice. Don't just walk away. A lot of conspiracy theories have been proven to have a thread of truth behind them. In the 90's I was a nut job because I would talk about a one world government on the CB running down the road late at night with other drivers. those that agreed were labeled nut jobs too or conspiracy theorists. Now we have certain politicians talking about a new world order and one world government not to mention billionaires and the "powers that be". The Illuminati used to be considered BS and still is but names like Rothschild are getting thrown into the mix. Who the hell are the Rothschilds? Everyone Jamie is gonna' have an opinion. Personally I think that biology is a natural construct. Most animals with a penis seek out their same species with a vagina for the sole purpose of procreation. I believe that psychology too is a natural construct. We can't help the way we see ourselves. I don't blame society for any constructs other than freakin' narrow mindedness and an arrogance that is rivaled only by politicians and movie stars. Beyer is a nut bag. They don't make just medicine but I have pulled rubber pellets from Beaumont TX to a plant on the river in LA. So are they a pharmaceutical company or a plastics and rubber or petroleum products company? I do know it was the Beyer company because on the Bill of Lading it had the same symbol and logo as on the Beyer aspirin. There is no junk science. Most science is sincere. The outsiders that are considered junk scientists I tend to believe more than the scientists that get governmental grants. As for conspiracy theories though. There are quite a few songs in the Library of Congress. Why the hell is Master of Puppets by Metallica a song that is the Library of Congress. I suggest going to Youtube and listen to the songs with the written lyrics. Really makes you think and wonder why this song is there. As for male biology and menstruel cycles. The human mind is a great anomoly. If you have more E receptors than T receptors then it may be something that is psychosematic. Cramps and bitchiness (sorry for the use of bitchiness) is a symptom. Unless she has a uterus I doubt that she bleeds but if she has both genetalia it is possible. Plus women that live together a lot of times will synche up their menstruel cycles if they live together long enough. This maybe junk science too but three women living together over years worth of time that are not mother and daughter and all close to the same age would be more of an evolutionary thing. So you have two biological women and one bioligical male that is a MTF then it is possible that psychosematically the MTF may suffer a menstruel cycle physicall without the blood or use of tampons. Since there would not be a uterus and therefore nothing for blood to line, it is still possible to suffer the physical sensations. Possibly. That is why I said that there really needs to be a real legitimate study of gender and gender identity on all levels.
|
|