DES release

[Trinity]

www.wtsp.com/mb/news/local/did-a-drug-lead-to-transgender-/215338199

[Jamie2]

Personally, I think DES is another "escape from being transgender." And the fact that it only encompasses a small time period makes the DES theory unable to explain how people have been transgender since the beginning of time, in all countries all over the world, where people were never even exposed to it.

[Trinity]

May 28, 2016 2:39:00 GMT 8 Jamie2 said:

Personally, I think DES is another "escape from being transgender." And the fact that it only encompasses a small time period makes the DES theory unable to explain how people have been transgender since the beginning of time, in all countries all over the world, where people were never even exposed to it.

I am DES.

Its not the whole story for everyone.

Its a part of it though, for many of us.

It doesnt invalidate anyone born trans that was not exposed.  Its not the catch all for transgender.  But it is causitive for us that were exposed.  Just like it kills the DES daughters with cancer.

But the physical side to being born transgender is going to come out.

Rhonda, who suicided last night, was DES.

Its real.  Please believe me on that.

DES does not negate the trans reality for those born trans unexposed.

Trans is genetic.  Its hardwired into all of us born trans.

Trinity

[Jamie2]

Let's put the folks in the article in perspective:

"Famous transgender woman, Dana Beyer says she menstruates like other women"

www.olisa.tv/2015/06/09/famous-transgender-woman-dana-beyer-menstruates-women/

www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-beyer/what-makes-a-woman-a-tran_b_7533324.html

"Most news accounts describe Beyer as being born with "conflicting genitalia." The reality is that Beyer had fully functioning male genitalia and elements of a female reproductive system— specifically, an enlarged prostatic utricle, which is the male version of the uterus."

"But then puberty arrived, sparking a terrifying hormonal conflict. That enlarged utricle started bleeding, which Beyer describes as "menstruating from my residual uterine tissue."

"Doctors never did discover the original problem, although the bleeding did cease."

cornellalumnimagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=809&Itemid=56&limit=1&limitstart=1

[Trinity]

I actually slid off the article into my own experience.

I was disappointed by the article but glad DES was being discussed.

That's about as far as I am going with this.

No offense. I'll get too volatile about it so better I drop it, personally.

Kindest regards

Trinity

[Deleted]

May 28, 2016 2:39:00 GMT 8 Jamie2 said:

Personally, I think DES is another "escape from being transgender." And the fact that it only encompasses a small time period makes the DES theory unable to explain how people have been transgender since the beginning of time, in all countries all over the world, where people were never even exposed to it.

You know Jamie. You are right. DES isn't the only probable cause for being transgender. But like Trinity I do know that I was a high risk pregnancy and my mom had 2 miscarriages before me. My dad told me she had to take "vitamins and other drugs" to keep me from being a blood spot in the toilet. But right now in this moment in time there are way more MTFs than FTMs. I would almost bet that if someone did actual research on the subject that throughout history that MTF and FTM have been on a pretty equal Keel. Now though. Way more MTFs.

I mean I have some pretty fucked up physical characteristics. I got a little "thingy" and have boobs even though small but they stick out farther than my little "dicky do". My emotions have always been more female than male and I have had one fight in my life and I actually cried and then just kept my mouth shut. Yeah I lost because I fucking fought like a girl. Go figure.

Personally I think Transgederism is natural. Hell there have been female warriors and such as Joan of Arc and the Native Americans would take in and marry trans women as just another wife. They may not have slept with them like other wives but who really knows?

But right now, there are way more MTFs than FTMs. I really wish some notable anthropologist would do a study on it but.... How much would a drug company pay for someone to keep their mouths shut? 

[Jamie2]

If anyone is getting behind the leader of the DES movement, they should know her thoughts on other things too.

www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-beyer/ze-and-they-and-the-diffi_b_9210682.html

[Leena]

May 30, 2016 6:37:14 GMT 8 @jamie said:

May 28, 2016 2:39:00 GMT 8 Jamie2 said:

Personally, I think DES is another "escape from being transgender." And the fact that it only encompasses a small time period makes the DES theory unable to explain how people have been transgender since the beginning of time, in all countries all over the world, where people were never even exposed to it.

You know Jamie. You are right. DES isn't the only probable cause for being transgender. But like Trinity I do know that I was a high risk pregnancy and my mom had 2 miscarriages before me. My dad told me she had to take "vitamins and other drugs" to keep me from being a blood spot in the toilet. But right now in this moment in time there are way more MTFs than FTMs. I would almost bet that if someone did actual research on the subject that throughout history that MTF and FTM have been on a pretty equal Keel. Now though. Way more MTFs.

My mom had 2 miscarriages before me, as well as having my older sister between them. Although I'm a little younger than the DES ages, I seem to vaguely recall my mom saying something about taking "special vitamins" she had left over from her old doctor that had given her when she was trying before...I can't really even ask her, as the miscarriages were really painful emotionally for her, and I'm her miracle baby, as her old doctor had told her after the second miscarriage she'd never have another child...whether they were DES or something else I'll probably never know, though whatever they did, I'm happy to be alive, even though I am trans...

[EchelonHunt]

My mother had a miscarriage (baby boy) before having my older sister, she was delivered full term and was healthy... whereas me, I was premature, born at 17 weeks, had to be in NICU for a long time 'cause I couldn't breathe on my own. I had an enlarged clitoris that looked like a small penis, doctors were deciding whether or not to perform corrective surgery to make it look more in line with a natal female's genitalia... thank God they decided against it, claiming "Nature would work things out". I was never diagnosed as intersex but in some ways, I felt like I was one until I found trans was a thing.

My mother had gestational diabetes with all pregnancies, my endocrinologist gave me the name of a drug that may have caused my body to turn out the way it did at birth, I asked my mother, she didn't recognise the name, just said they treated her for gestational diabetes but she can't remember what it was called since it was so long ago.

It's very interesting to hear the similarities in stories here.

[Trinity]

May 30, 2016 12:41:08 GMT 8 Leena said:

May 30, 2016 6:37:14 GMT 8 @jamie said:

You know Jamie. You are right. DES isn't the only probable cause for being transgender. But like Trinity I do know that I was a high risk pregnancy and my mom had 2 miscarriages before me. My dad told me she had to take "vitamins and other drugs" to keep me from being a blood spot in the toilet. But right now in this moment in time there are way more MTFs than FTMs. I would almost bet that if someone did actual research on the subject that throughout history that MTF and FTM have been on a pretty equal Keel. Now though. Way more MTFs.

My mom had 2 miscarriages before me, as well as having my older sister between them. Although I'm a little younger than the DES ages, I seem to vaguely recall my mom saying something about taking "special vitamins" she had left over from her old doctor that had given her when she was trying before...I can't really even ask her, as the miscarriages were really painful emotionally for her, and I'm her miracle baby, as her old doctor had told her after the second miscarriage she'd never have another child...whether they were DES or something else I'll probably never know, though whatever they did, I'm happy to be alive, even though I am trans...

Fits the DES thing ...

I could start throwing links up but I'm not going to fight about this.  You dont want to see the rage.

Thrre are far more than the head of our group involved.  One persons binarism doesnt negate the things we know, the cover ups, and the dead women from cancer.  Cancer clearly caused by DES.  

[Jamie2]

I've got 219 trans boy and girls that were in the media on my website that were born long after DES was stopped being used. You know what that says about the DES theory, right?

And a DES link to cancer is not a transgender related subject. The only thing pushing this junk science theory does is confuse more trans people about their gender identity; people who are already suffering and looking for any answer they can grasp about how they ended up as one of us. And DES isn't it. If being trans stared in 1940 you could claim that. But it didn't, and you can't.

Where's the DES in the Tiwi Islands? Do you think big pharma was trucking it into them?

www.buzzfeed.com/allanclarke/sistergirls-of-the-tiwi-islands?utm_term=.biqLAVOzW#.bbGNnqMvj

[Trinity]

May 31, 2016 0:07:35 GMT 8 Jamie2 said:

I've got 219 trans boy and girls that were in the media on my website that were born long after DES was stopped being used. You know what that says about the DES theory, right?

And a DES link to cancer is not a transgender related subject. The only thing pushing this junk science theory does is confuse more trans people about their gender identity; people who are already suffering and looking for any answer they can grasp about how they ended up as one of us. And DES isn't it. If being trans stared in 1940 you could claim that. But it didn't, and you can't.

Where's the DES in the Tiwi Islands? Do you think big pharma was trucking it into them?

www.buzzfeed.com/allanclarke/sistergirls-of-the-tiwi-islands?utm_term=.biqLAVOzW#.bbGNnqMvj

I dont understand why you would feel DES would threaten or declude or otherwise invalidate transexuality that is not DES based.

Nor do I understand why it would be necessary to attack the DES question when the DES community keeps asking for more research.

There are other male issues with DES, including a generally acknowledged link to it as causitive for depression.

Blowing it off as faulty science isnt going to help anyone.

And nobody is dealing with statistics and the raft of DES males that are transitioning in their 50's.

Hey, I did a good job not getting pissed☺

Whatever you can do to help get some serious nongovermental independant research done would be deeply appreciated.

And the cancers are an issue.  As is the high incidence of intersex compared to baseline, the question that we have testicular cysts, smaller bone structure...

If you are feeling you or trans is threatened by this, please explain.

Imo, there is no cure for trans, no fault in trans, the only thing needing curing is the hatred of us by the ignorant.  DES is irrelevent in the big picture.

Except that the drug takes lives.  Do you contest the link to depression?  Do you know what that feels like?

Keep it cool folks.  I want to know why it angers others to discuss this.  Its obvious why it angers me.

Its not a threat to trans.  It invalidates nothing.

[Jamie2]

You're asking a trans person with a diagnosis of complex PTSD from multiple gov't agencies if I know what depression feels like?

This thing started off with an article about DES causing people to be trans and then devolved into all the other DES issues such as cancer.

You do realize trans people are prone to cancer and other health ills because we have much higher substance abuse rates, right? Things like smoking etc. etc.

www.americanprogress.org/issues/lgbt/report/2012/03/09/11228/why-the-gay-and-transgender-population-experiences-higher-rates-of-substance-use/

[Trinity Satin Joy]

May 31, 2016 1:54:26 GMT 8 Jamie2 said:

You're asking a trans person with a diagnosis of complex PTSD from multiple gov't agencies if I know what depression feels like?

This thing started off with an article about DES causing people to be trans and then devolved into all the other DES issues such as cancer.

You do realize trans people are prone to cancer and other health ills because we have much higher substance abuse rates, right? Things like smoking etc. etc.

www.americanprogress.org/issues/lgbt/report/2012/03/09/11228/why-the-gay-and-transgender-population-experiences-higher-rates-of-substance-use/

PTSD totally sucks.  Really sorry to hear you have it.  My son in law has it bad and is disabled from multiple battle wounds.  

To rewind, you are saying what please?  That DES is not causitive of trans?  

Its not THE cause of trans.  Trans is trans.  

I'm not a debator or a scientist.  Thats not my gift.   My gift is fighting for trans lives.  So forgive me for emotionally based reasoning.  

Im trying to understand the intensity of your denial or rebuttal.  Its pretty strong. 

Your position is that DES as causitive is all nonsense?

[Trinity]

That was a really good article by the way Jamie.