Total Mystery

[Deleted]

I was misgendered today. That’s always annoying of course, but it was particularly so today because of the circumstances. I’ve been out for more than three years now, and this was in my usual supermarket where everybody knows me well and long ago got used to me.

It was like this: I was looking for a particular item that I’d bought any number of times in that place before, but for some reason I couldn’t find it today. One of the lads (call him “John”) offered his help, and when he couldn’t find it, he called over one of the girls (call her “Mary”). One problem was that they didn’t seem to know what I was talking about—even though, as I said, they’ve long carried this particular item. But Mary picked up one thing, thinking that might be what I was looking for, at which point John said, “No, he’s looking for . . .”

Now I kept my cool, didn’t say anything at the time. For one thing, I’d had a bit of a problem once before with John. He was very slow to get used to using my new name when I came out, and I finally had to have a quiet (friendly) word with him in private because he’d called me by my old name in circumstances that could potentially have been quite embarrassing for me. So I didn’t want to be seen to be jumping on him a second time.

But afterwards, as Mary was checking me out (without the item I’d been looking for), I decided to raise the point, rather than just walking out without saying anything at all. So I told her very quietly, “People should say ‘she’ when they’re talking about me.”

She smiled apologetically and said, “I know. I heard that, too.”

So there you go. She’d picked up on that. And so as not to seem too hostile, I assured her, “It’s a difficult point and some people don’t cop on. That’s why I don’t make a big deal of it.” But then I went on to point out, “If somebody called you ‘he’, you wouldn’t like it one bit.” I wanted to show her that this was as important to me as it was to her. And she agreed with me all the way.

So I’d made my point, and this is the way I prefer to deal with these things—with the “softly-softly” rather than the “militant” approach. I always bear in mind that for most cispeople, transgenderism is a total mystery. They hardly ever, if ever, think about these things. They have other concerns in life.

John, for example, has undoubtedly never even thought about the question of whether I should be called “he” or “she”. In his eyes I’ve always been a “he”. Changing clothes doesn’t make me a “she”. He’d have no conception of the fact that I’ve always been “me”, and that “he” was merely a disguise that I was wearing.

Mary, on the other hand, has a better feel for these things. Someone who looks like a “she” should be called “she”. But suppose she was dealing with an NB person who looks more like a “she” than a “he” but prefers “they”. She’d undoubtedly get it wrong and wouldn’t have a clue why.

I believe in allowing people time to get familiar with these things. Furthermore, I think we need to give credit where credit is due. The staff in this shop has been very good to me. I switched over and they all took it right in their stride. Nobody there has ever given me any grief. So why get indignant when they’re all doing quite well?

This would include John. Although, as I said, he’s been a bit slow in ways, he’s a good guy, he’s been nice to me and has continued to give me the same service he always did before. Of the two people involved today, one is now educated in the issue. When you’re trans, a 50% mark is quite good. And perhaps Mary will have a quiet word with John to set him straight.

On the other hand, John is the butcher. If he ever misgenders me again, I may go after him with one of his cleavers. Do you think I should?

[EchelonHunt]

Yes. Shiv John in the back in the freezer when he least expects it.

In all seriousness, the situation could have been worse. Don't rely on Mary to have a quiet word with John, it couldn't hurt to have another private talk with John if it happens again.

It may just be John needs more time to adjust, maybe he is older, memory is horrible or old habits die hard and he needs a little nudge in the right direction.

If he doesn't budge, you are under no obligation to speak or react to him when in store. If he cannot respect you and your identity, why should you respect him at all?

My father knows I'm going by my male name and pronouns, have been socially male for five years counting now, he still calls me "she" from time to time. Not out of malice, he just forgets and it's an old habit but at least he makes conscious effort to use male pronouns towards me in public.

I've had my father's childhood friends call me by my old name and female pronouns even though two of them knew I was transitioning to male. They've known me for years and we catch up every year so it's understandable they aren't around me long enough to call me my male name or use male pronouns.

I shrugged it off. No biggie. It's probably because I'm non-binary, I tend to care less about misgendering unless the person is doing it on purpose, intending to be spiteful.

When I got "she"'d by a stranger, like I did while I was waiting in queue at a fast food place, it made my heart sing because I like that I can pass as a girl or a boy, even five years on T, with a flat chest and all. Of course, I did have the instinctual urge of "She? Do I LOOK like a She to you?!" then, "Wait, I can pass as a girl, even with how I look now? Yippee! Androgyny!"

[Deleted]

I may have to have a word with him some time.  After all, if he can embarrass me by using the wrong name in the wrong situation, he could also embarrass me by misgendering me.

Jan 16, 2016 0:25:56 GMT 8 EchelonHunt said:

If he doesn't budge, you are under no obligation to speak or react to him when in store. If he cannot respect you and your identity, why should you respect him at all?

But it's not that he doesn't respect me or my identity.  He simply doesn't understand it.

As regards ignoring him, I always have to remember my circumstances.  This is a tiny town I'm living in, and I can't afford any feuds with anybody.  E.g., there are only two supermarkets in this town.  If I'm not getting along with people in one place, that only leaves one other.  And given that he's the butcher in my favorite of the two, I can't avoid talking to him.

No, he's a good guy, very friendly.  It's just that transgenderism is something new to him.  He doesn't understand it in the least.  So, yes, I may have to try educating him a bit, but I need to be very careful as to how I go about that.  As I said, the people in this shop have been very good to me.  I certainly don't want to go about alienating any of them.

[Trinity]

Clueless is right.

I get he'd in she mode and I hate it.

I really hate it when its a stranger and I am full out hair off. Means they are reading something I don't want them seeing.

But its the world we live in. Its the tone of voice, always, for me. Wrong tone and it'll get rough as the rage comes out, any other tone, I make allowances and let it go, but I'll gently just say "no dear, sh'e"

[Deleted]

Maybe just a slip of the tounge? Especially if you were using this supermarket before you came out and John was an employee there. If not complain.

At least Mary seems compassionate and if I complained about John I would commend her and let management know.

So if John truly don't understand then maybe cut him some slack. At least Mary does. It may have been a "Freudian Slip". At least he did help you instead of beating you up. I don't know if that is any constellation but take his age and background into consideration. In my experience, most people don't mean to be "assholes" but are truly ignorant in trans issues.

Personally I would put myself in the same situation next time and then gauge what he called me and then go from there. Then I would try to educate him. Something like "MFer, you see the skirt? you see the heels? You see the handbag or purse?" If some shit comes out of it then " I need to see your boss!" If he apologizes then he is ignorant. If he don't then he is homo/transphobic and talk to his boss.

[Deleted]

Jan 22, 2016 5:20:32 GMT 8 @jamie said:

Maybe just a slip of the tongue? Especially if you were using this supermarket before you came out and John was an employee there. If not complain.

I've been dealing with him for many years. I was well-known in this little town for a long time before I came out, so people have had to adjust. Most did it without any real problem, but I think John is just a bit slow about these things. But he's always been very friendly to me, and that didn't change after I came out.

Jan 22, 2016 5:20:32 GMT 8 @jamie said:

So if John truly don't understand then maybe cut him some slack.

This is what I think, Jamie. Small town, not too familiar with this sort of thing, and I think he genuinely doesn't understand. I'm still working with the notion that it's never occurred to him that "he" isn't appropriate.

Jan 22, 2016 5:20:32 GMT 8 @jamie said:

Personally I would put myself in the same situation next time and then gauge what he called me and then go from there. Then I would try to educate him.

Yes, this is what I plan to do. If it happens again, I'll have to figure out my strategy for approaching him. When he used the wrong name for me, I didn't come at him all hostile and confrontational. I forget exactly what I said, but it wasn't anything like, "You called me by the wrong name, and I'd very much appreciate it if . . ." I went at it more indirectly. Something like, "Sometimes people forget my name. I understand, but it's helpful if they remember my new one." He got the point, and it didn't ruffle his feathers because I wasn't making a direct accusation. And he never called me by my old name after that, either.

So if I do have to raise this issue with him, I'd try something of the same approach. This isn't the first time in this little town I've been misgendered. Once it was by a woman who works in the pharmacy who clearly didn't like me. When she misgendered me, I didn't say anything. But as time went on, she came around. She realized a transperson isn't so horrible, nothing to get upset about. She became a lot friendlier. This is why I believe in taking a softer approach. Give people a chance. This stuff is new for them. I think we have a better chance of making friends if we don't get any more confrontational than we have to.

Jan 22, 2016 5:20:32 GMT 8 @jamie said:

If he don't then he is homo/transphobic and talk to his boss.

He's definitely not transphobic. If he were, his whole attitude would be different. He's never stopped being friendly to me. As I said, I think he simply hasn't a clue. I may eventually have to give him one.

[Deleted]

Jan 23, 2016 2:30:20 GMT 8 @foxglove said:

Jan 22, 2016 5:20:32 GMT 8 @jamie said:

Maybe just a slip of the tongue? Especially if you were using this supermarket before you came out and John was an employee there. If not complain.

I've been dealing with him for many years. I was well-known in this little town for a long time before I came out, so people have had to adjust. Most did it without any real problem, but I think John is just a bit slow about these things. But he's always been very friendly to me, and that didn't change after I came out.

Jan 22, 2016 5:20:32 GMT 8 @jamie said:

So if John truly don't understand then maybe cut him some slack.

This is what I think, Jamie. Small town, not too familiar with this sort of thing, and I think he genuinely doesn't understand. I'm still working with the notion that it's never occurred to him that "he" isn't appropriate.

Jan 22, 2016 5:20:32 GMT 8 @jamie said:

Personally I would put myself in the same situation next time and then gauge what he called me and then go from there. Then I would try to educate him.

Yes, this is what I plan to do. If it happens again, I'll have to figure out my strategy for approaching him. When he used the wrong name for me, I didn't come at him all hostile and confrontational. I forget exactly what I said, but it wasn't anything like, "You called me by the wrong name, and I'd very much appreciate it if . . ." I went at it more indirectly. Something like, "Sometimes people forget my name. I understand, but it's helpful if they remember my new one." He got the point, and it didn't ruffle his feathers because I wasn't making a direct accusation. And he never called me by my old name after that, either.

So if I do have to raise this issue with him, I'd try something of the same approach. This isn't the first time in this little town I've been misgendered. Once it was by a woman who works in the pharmacy who clearly didn't like me. When she misgendered me, I didn't say anything. But as time went on, she came around. She realized a transperson isn't so horrible, nothing to get upset about. She became a lot friendlier. This is why I believe in taking a softer approach. Give people a chance. This stuff is new for them. I think we have a better chance of making friends if we don't get any more confrontational than we have to.

Jan 22, 2016 5:20:32 GMT 8 @jamie said:

If he don't then he is homo/transphobic and talk to his boss.

He's definitely not transphobic. If he were, his whole attitude would be different. He's never stopped being friendly to me. As I said, I think he simply hasn't a clue. I may eventually have to give him one.

Maybe cut him a little slack. Sometimes people are just so ignorant to our feelings and such. As long as he is still nice and respectful to you then I wouldn't worry too much about it. I wouldn't get him in trouble but ask him to please call me by female pronouns. In a more private place so no one else can hear though. It may take a while because the old pronouns seem to die hard. I mean if he did spend 5 or more years calling you sir or other male pronouns, it may have been unintentional. Old habits die hard. Coming from an area where we say sir and ma'am as a way of respect and is enforced from childhood, even I fuck up sometimes and I am trans myself. I try my best but still find myself screwing up as some screw up with me.

But as long as he is still friendly and helpful and respectful, he could call me a little pink unicorn and I could not be offended. If he was or is an ass to me then I have a problem. I mean really people can call me anything as long as not an "It". Shemale? HMM I wonder where they gt that pronoun from? Maybe they have a few secrets of their own?  Tranny the same thing. These terms are pretty much tied to something that most guys would demy knowing from experience. But experience tell me that these guys get these words from a certain industry that uses these pronouns and they probably have some sort of fantasy or turn on from us. I mean fantasies are one thing but fantasies eventually turn into reality in a lot of cases.

So here is the thing with me. I am who I am. I make no apologies or excuses. I will make fun of myself. I will joke about the whole trans thing until it turns malicious then I will push back. My feelings aren't easily hurt except by a lover. But when it comes to discrimination, I make my line in the sand. Housing, jobs, and anything else. Hell I am a shemale, at least she comes before he, and that means a lot to me. What the hell else am I other than a Tranny and 90 wieght oil stinks and I don't smell that bad. Gear oil stinks. So no tranny here and I would prefer Ms SHEmale.

So now we know that names don't bother me, but as long as he treats you with respect, personally I would talk to him in private and ask him to please use my prefered pronouns. He may still slip up from time to time but...

[Deleted]

Much better today. I was in the supermarket again this morning, dealing with two other people, a guy and a girl. The guy was checking me out while the girl was putting my stuff in a box to be delivered to me later on. The last few items I had, I told the guy not to put in the box. I'd just take them with me. But the girl didn't hear me say that, and she started to put them in the box along with the rest. So the guy told her, "No, she's taking those with her."

And then once back home, the plumber/handyman called round to put in a new shower unit for me.  We got to talking about this and that, mainly the problems I've had with my shower.  Some people put a unit in and it works perfectly for years.  There's some sort of problem in my flat, I think.  It's one problem after another with the shower, and unless I'm mistaken, this is the fourth unit that's gone totally kaput in the last ten years--not to mention the little repairs that have had to be done along the way.  I was saying that I'm thoroughly sick of it all now, and the man replied, "Well, you're a good woman to put up with it all this time."

This handyman surely knows who I am.  I've only been out for three years now, and I've been dealing with him for a lot longer than that.  He surely can't think that a man moved out and a woman moved in.  No, he knows well who I am.  But he's never said a word about my change-over.  His attitude towards me has never changed, and he's perfectly comfortable calling me a "woman".

I really think that we're simply looking at the differences in people here.  Some people just hate transgenderism, some are deeply uncomfortable with it, and can't get along with it at all.  Others think nothing of it and they take it right in their stride.  As far as they're concerned, "If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck."  Which means they have no problem treating you the way you want to be treated.  Transgenderism is no big deal if you don't want it to be.  Some people want it to be, and they are a right nuisance.

[Kira]

I would talk to the manager, but this is Britain and the manager would inform him of his legal obligation and give him a verbal warning.

[Trinity]

Fox your last post sound great. Feels good to hear that doesnt it.

[Taka]

pronouns are a difficult thing, just as names are.
when you get used to them belonging to a person, it's difficult to change it. really difficult.
so either you can easily manage to redefine this aspect of someone's being, or you'll slip up often.

sometimes the education shouldn't be about what transgenderism is, but rather that it's the same person with a different tag.
it's not all that more difficult than to call your cat dog. but you'll have to always remember that this particular cat is now a dog.
doesn't have to make sense, it's ok if it's weird. to some people it's better to make it a "just because i want it" kind of thing.

you wanting people to call you she should be more because you want it than because you're a woman?
since i don't really believe in a genetic female disposition for being pleased by the pronoun "she"...

i'm not sure if i make any sense, but i'm thinking about making this about preferences for real.
i like milk in my coffee, a personal thing. preferred pronouns are also a personal thing, so "i like it better" should be a good enough reason for people to change the way they address you. and much easier to explain that the whole theory of transgenderism.

[Deleted]

One practical reason for not wanting to be misgendered is that if somebody uses the wrong pronoun when there's a big crowd around, they're outing you to everybody present. Not pleasant. And furthermore, in public there may not be much way of calling them down for it. In private, it's another matter.

[Shan]

It's a rather rude form of aggression, the perpetrators also out themselves for their bad social behavior and bigoted attitude, a side effect is that they stigmatize themselves in the process as associates present will no doubt take note and some will disapprove. Many times that kind of behavior stems from someone that has an overwhelming need to be noticed, they tend to be know-it-all types with low self esteem. Being a smart ass can be costly in innumerable ways.

[Taka]

Feb 14, 2016 1:59:14 GMT 8 @foxglove said:

One practical reason for not wanting to be misgendered is that if somebody uses the wrong pronoun when there's a big crowd around, they're outing you to everybody present. Not pleasant. And furthermore, in public there may not be much way of calling them down for it. In private, it's another matter.

that's true. should be a good reason for him to remember.
maybe it would help that guy if you explained that being called "he" in public feels about as nice to you as if he were to shout out to the whole would that your a freak in human skin.
i'm sure he doesn't think you are that, so maybe he'll get it that way...