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Post by Taka on Nov 20, 2014 17:28:45 GMT 8
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Post by Ayla on Nov 20, 2014 18:51:09 GMT 8
Interesting blog. To me the etymology of words is really only of historical interest. Usage denotes meaning, currency of usage is everything, the meaning of words change across time, culture, socio economic group etc. notwithstanding the learned post , trans* always seemed more inclusive than trans given their more limited and specific application.
Perhaps I have got this back to front.
However quite apart from their importance in naming or defining oneself do you think that trying to enforce or agree a standard vocabulary and set of definitions is that important?
Safe travels
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Post by Taka on Nov 20, 2014 19:00:49 GMT 8
people have different opinions on this, which is why i ask questions rather than answer them for the time being. it's not like my answer is the right one either though. but the one thing the blog say which does have importance, is using these words consciously, being aware of what you mean when using either.
i personally have problems with the wildcard. i'll automatically go ahead and think words that start with "trans" rather than just include all trans/trans* identities. and then i've found "trans" to be a very practical adjective that i can use about absolutely everything that isn't "cis", in terms of personal gender identity. it's only been used as an adjective for a very short time in english, and not by too many, but as you say, current usage is what determines the meaning of a word.
maybe there's no necessity at all for deciding on anything. i just want to let this discussion flow freely, without personal attacks or accusations of such. to learn what we all think about it, and not just a few locked or deleted comments.
i do know some feel excluded by trans* after all. just like how others have felt excluded by trans. only thing that matters to me is ease of typing though. i'm naturally lazy, language is that way too actually.
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Post by Ayla on Nov 20, 2014 19:09:47 GMT 8
You may be right. Conscious and respectful language should be the objective. But I do like the lazy typist argument
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Post by Taka on Nov 20, 2014 19:11:13 GMT 8
it's one of the truths of language. language changes because of laziness, and the sudden need to make distinctions when laziness has made some things too similar to be practical when trying to convey meaning.
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Post by Ayla on Nov 20, 2014 19:20:42 GMT 8
Taka
I have to ask this question. I am pretty sure that you are from Norway, English is therefore unlikely to be your first language but you communicate so eloquently and effectively - are you a teacher?
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Post by Ayla on Nov 20, 2014 19:21:49 GMT 8
Actually I know the answer. Your words are wise and considered. You are generous with your knowledge. You are a teacher.
Safe travels
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Post by Taka on Nov 20, 2014 19:51:36 GMT 8
it seems i am a teacher by nature. unfortunately i did not realize this by the time i started my studies, so i am not a teacher of (studied) profession. i have taught saami language part time since 2011. it's fun and interesting. one day i will manage to get time for studying a little bit of pedagogy, so i can become a teacher in a real school. right now i'm only teaching adults.
english and norwegian are quite similar languages. there's a system to the differences in pronunciation, and as soon as a norwegian gets that, they'll start saying the weirdest things in english. like this guy once who had drunk a little too much beer, let out a loud burp, and then excused himself to the american friend in english: "you have to rape some times, you know". spelled the same way, "rape" in norwegian means 'burp'. apply english pronunciation to that, and you'll have one shocked american and a flock of norwegians almost literally rolling on the floor laughing.
the differences in syntax are so small that it's easy to make mistakes in translation. the mistakes often aren't real errors, they just make the sentence sound off, or an idiomatic expression doesn't make the same sense any longer. it's the same with swedish too.
but it's not weird nowadays to meet people from all around the world, who speak or type english really well. it's mostly because of the internet, whether it is because of forum activity or some mmorpg or other. i have learned english by reading, i'm one of those rare cases who actually learns from books. my sister learned by singing, and my younger brothers by playing wow and runescape. one of my brothers has funny pronunciation because he only ever reads english. my pronunciation can be a little odd too when it's been a long time since i last spoke this language with my mouth. when i studied, i spoke with an african accent, the type that ghanaians usually have. half my linguistics class were students from africa, so that's not weird at all.
but... that wasn't really what i meant to talk about here, was it.
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Post by Ayla on Nov 20, 2014 19:57:01 GMT 8
Perhaps not but you are a student and will be a teacher of language. English, American and Australian are also quite similar but I am now a long way off topic so will stop.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 5:26:55 GMT 8
What was the topic...? I was so entertained by the digression that I forgot, lol. Oh, yeah. The trans asterisk. I never use it, myself. I just figure it's unnecessary. The person reading can fill in whatever ending to the word/phrase they want. I'm probably just lazy, too, if I'm being honest.
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Post by LivingTheDream on Nov 21, 2014 9:39:08 GMT 8
I actually kind of hate it, the asterisk. It just really bugs me, looks wrong. Idk, maybe it is because of how I typically use em. For example, yesterday I posted this on facebook:
Got hit by car. Dying. Can't work. *cough cough* (I was fine, car wasn't even damaged)
Added * * as a way of saying am messing around, joking, sarcasm.
I don't mind if people use it though, it doesn't offend me really(I'm hard to offend on most things), it just sort of makes me scratch my head cuz it just seems weird, unnecessary.
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Post by Taka on Nov 21, 2014 14:21:39 GMT 8
double asterisks are used for actions. *taka turns on the smartboard, as black-or-whiteboards don't work online* what was i about to write again... *scratches head*
i get what you mean though, they're very often used just to *cough* or *sigh*
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 23:01:22 GMT 8
Interesting article, I've not really thought about the asterix, but can see why it's important. Trans has been co-opted by the cistem to explicitly mean transition. Probably due to binary bias and hetronormativity, not identifying as your birth assigned gender is okay, but only as long as you identify as something we recognise. And even then your identity will be mocked as somehow less valid than cis identities.
Trans as transgressive makes way more sense, because you don't have to transition to transgress rigid gender norms.
Destroy the cistem, that' s what I say
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Post by Patty on Nov 23, 2014 0:33:28 GMT 8
I really don't ever use or rarely use either one. I normally describe myself as what I am, a TS under the transgender umbrella. So to me it does not make any difference which one is used they are just a shortened version of a longer word but mean the same..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2014 6:42:20 GMT 8
What does the asteric mean anyway? I never really got it. In a normal conversation I can understand something like. "Jamie* is trans." in a sentence and then go down to the bottom of the page. And then you see:
*: The essence of insanity.
But why the asteric?
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