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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 22:07:14 GMT 8
How do we change church culture?
I dont even have one, like most of us I became bitter and left the church and the pain it represents, the decades of emotional abuse I faced by being forced into the image of someone God did not intend me to be.
I can only think it is by challenging the status quo, liing authentic.
What weapons do we have that take down the bigotry in the church?
Unconditional love and shaming them with authentic Christian love is one of the ways.
So frustrated. And I see the rigidity harming the church, harming their mission, making them vulnerable to attack. It should not be so, they are missing the whole point of the author of our lives, the one who made us who we are, for His purposes.
How do we change, and what do we have scripturally to defend ourselves?
Blessings
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Post by Kira on Jan 1, 2015 22:42:06 GMT 8
You don't.
Bigotry comes from a fear of those different to you. That is, on a primal level, a basic instinct. Differences and change make you feel uncomfortable to trigger a survival response as they can bring danger. Stranger danger.
People's actions, their response to this change is to counter, to act against it. It takes higher order reasoning to diffuse this, and normalisation of the difference, to make it lasting.
The Bible is a tool used by them to legitimise their own response to difference. The bibble is a collection of different writing which reflect those authors different values as well as the era in which it was written. As such it has many contradictory messages and accounts, from a) an eye for an eye to b) Jesus' message of forgiveness - through to jesus' last words and if they can't even agree on that, how can we take any of it as 'gospel' (some say it was 'my god my god why hast thou forsaken me' and others say it was 'father unto thy hands I commend my spirit'). The point is, with so much contradiction, different sections are used to justify any kind of response to anything (otherwise there would only be one dictated course of action and every Christian would agree on everything according to the bible). The difference with the Bible is that people feel that it can legitimise their actions without searching for right and wrong in their own minds. All they have to do is find a section of the Bible that agrees with it and they are good with it because 'it says so in the Bible' aand you can find a section of the Bible that agrees with most any response to anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 23:02:50 GMT 8
I think most religions of the world share some complicity in that scriptures and verses are forever being twisted out of context. I think that after His 40 day fast in the desert that His purported conversation with Satan and temptation to take the short route to become crowned King of the universe exemplifies how this happens when the ego can easily be tempted to overshadow the intent of the verses.
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Post by EchelonHunt on Jan 1, 2015 23:19:23 GMT 8
Star, please do not worry about being banned. As long as you are respectful towards others in discussion (and of course, they to you), I do not see anything wrong with expressing your responses and/or views.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 23:19:45 GMT 8
Yeah I'm with you, I routinely avoid religious and political threads due to the fact that opinions are like assholes everyone has one and assholes have opinions that are often just so much shit. Happy New Year Star! *Removed quote as Star states in her signature not to be quoted ~Jacey
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Post by EchelonHunt on Jan 1, 2015 23:34:47 GMT 8
I avoid religious and political threads as well so I can relate to that Auntie Shan.
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Post by Laura J on Jan 2, 2015 0:15:52 GMT 8
I can't add much..? It seems the reasonable, tolerant, loving Christians are exactly those who are so often being persecuted in our own religion.? I don't have a local church I go to either.? My wife does, she raves about it.. I went to the website and have e-mailed them 3 times now, simply asking they're view on Gay & Trans equality and acceptance in they're church, but haven't had any response, so I haven't gone.? It would be a shame to go and listen to a sermon on homosexual sins and have to punch the pastor in the nose on the way out after the service..? Christianity is about your relationship with Jesus anyway, not about attending a church once a week.. Jesus warned about such things anyway, and said look to him first and foremost.. I like that idea.. I actually love that concept very much.! I don't think many traditional Christians will ever change they're thinking and persecution, and the only way towards change in them is as that generation dies, and this new one replaces it.. In that I'm very optimistic when it comes to these issues.. Now, I ask please to hear Suzzane's thoughts..? We will hold Jacey's finger being him, and off the "Ban Button"..!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 0:22:51 GMT 8
I can't add much..? It seems the reasonable, tolerant, loving Christians are exactly those who are so often being persecuted in our own religion.? I don't have a local church I go to either.? My wife does, she raves about it.. I went to the website and have e-mailed them 3 times now, simply asking they're view on Gay & Trans equality and acceptance in they're church, but haven't had any response, so I haven't gone.? It would be a shame to go and listen to a sermon on homosexual sins and have to punch the pastor in the nose on the way out after the service..? *Christianity is about your relationship with Jesus anyway, not about attending a church once a week.. Jesus warned about such things anyway, and said look to him first and foremost.. I like that idea.. I actually love that concept very much.! * The bottom line always and where the rubber meets the road!
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Post by LivingTheDream on Jan 2, 2015 4:49:05 GMT 8
I'm like Star, I avoid this section too, I'd offend everyone with my views You can't really force anyone to change though. You can try to educate em, show em different viewpoints, but at the end of the day, it is up to that person to change or think about changing. Some people will never change, some won't, some can't w/e. Stuck in their ways, see only good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, black and right, their way or no way, not a whole lot you can do about that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 5:51:29 GMT 8
I'm like Star, I avoid this section too, I'd offend everyone with my views You can't really force anyone to change though. You can try to educate em, show em different viewpoints, but at the end of the day, it is up to that person to change or think about changing. Some people will never change, some won't, some can't w/e. Stuck in their ways, see only good and bad, right and wrong, normal and abnormal, black and right, their way or no way, not a whole lot you can do about that. Its why there is a separate section, so that those who identify as Christian can work their stuff our without offending or stepping on the toes of those who are not. The forum is one of mutual respect, and there are threads that I avoid, and those others need to avoid, just out of respecting our wonderful diversity. That is one of the reasons we successfully dont need moderators. Everyone gets it. They understand what the word compassion means in all of its consequences and power. Thanks for showing restraint, both you and Star. There is a lot of work to do in order to bring Jesus vision into the now. Not the church or mans. God's.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 6:31:25 GMT 8
Its why there is a separate section, so that those who identify as Christian can work their stuff our without offending or stepping on the toes of those who are not. The forum is one of mutual respect, and there are threads that I avoid, and those others need to avoid, just out of respecting our wonderful diversity. That is one of the reasons we successfully dont need moderators. Everyone gets it. They understand what the word compassion means in all of its consequences and power. Thanks for showing restraint, both you and Star. There is a lot of work to do in order to bring Jesus vision into the now. Not the church or mans. God's. I certainly agree with this! Something I never could understand at the other website was why those who claim to be some other persuasion would insist on posting in the forum designated "Christian" and do everything in their power to get the thread closed slinging insults at others. Same thing happened on the political forums.
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Post by Whisper on Jan 2, 2015 7:09:20 GMT 8
How do we change church culture? I dont even have one, like most of us I became bitter and left the church and the pain it represents, the decades of emotional abuse I faced by being forced into the image of someone God did not intend me to be. I can only think it is by challenging the status quo, liing authentic. What weapons do we have that take down the bigotry in the church? Unconditional love and shaming them with authentic Christian love is one of the ways. So frustrated. And I see the rigidity harming the church, harming their mission, making them vulnerable to attack. It should not be so, they are missing the whole point of the author of our lives, the one who made us who we are, for His purposes. How do we change, and what do we have scripturally to defend ourselves? Blessings Trinity. some cultures will have to change on there own, I think. changes normally occur after long periods of voiced opposition, mixed with several tradgedies. It does require brave pioneers who may be treated inhuman. Ive seen some scriptorial defenses. There are several on the web, however tradition and culture change begins by changing the hearts and minds of a few first. Many have done well joining other likemind individuals in more accepting denominations.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 10:01:49 GMT 8
Don't leave the forum.
Thank you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 10:07:50 GMT 8
Star I get you, stick around hon, you're valuable to this community and your opinion does count. I know how stringent and rigid the Dutch reformed church can be and the other offshoots and so I can hardly blame you for your feelings. Your family is most important, I respect your decisions.
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Post by Laura J on Jan 2, 2015 10:21:39 GMT 8
Yeah, Suzanne I don't blame you a bit, not at all..! I think you have very sound reasoning for the decision you and the others made.. Believe me, I am no stanger to persecution by a church.. I was totally dissed and abandoned as a teen by our family church, just for something as ridiculously stupid as smoking a cigerette in public..
My fricking mother caught me masterbating as a teen, told my father who verbally repremanded me in front of our whole family, then the next Sunday at church the bishop called me into his office, where I was told of my evil sin over and over.. I was so humiliated and angry I wanted to burn down that church with everyone in it.!
I'm no preacher, thats for sure, and well none of us are here, we just relate our own experiences and thoughts, and certainly you are welcome to as well..
Time healed my bad feelings, and the love of people here have built me up again.. Thats no reflection on anyone elses personal feelings, which I respect so very much, especially yours.! Hugs
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