cis men's or ladies meetings how do you deal?

[Deleted]

You're invited to one. We are nb. Are you comfortable or compelled to act, wear a mask? Are you stealth? How do you feel?

[Edge]

Er... Is this a meeting specifically for cis people? Because then I wouldn't go because I am not cis person. Same as I wouldn't want a trans group flooded by cis people. Maybe if I was invited to speak to them as a trans person and I trusted the person who invited me.

[Deleted]

May 13, 2015 0:13:26 GMT 8 Trinity said:

You're invited to one. We are nb. Are you comfortable or compelled to act, wear a mask? Are you stealth? How do you feel?

It just all depends. Is it Cis men or cis women and do they know you are trans? Do they really care even. If not and they are friends of yours then go as yourself. Screw the masks. Screw the Stealth because if you were invited then they probably know anyway. I agree with Edge if it's a cis meeting but on the other hand we are all just people too. If it is something to do with your community or whatever else then by all means go but just be yourself.

[Deleted]

Mark, you'd be fine at the men's meeting too.

I once made a comment about the t levels when I had come out there, all the big guys.

Those same guys would look like a bowling ball hitting a paper airplane if someone tried to mess with me in there. Their protective instincts are strong and many have done time.

We fit right in with them.

I thinking would depend on the church whether they do the reparative coinciding or not. It messed me up, not out of hate or anything, but out of believing I had chosen to be trans and it was shameful to be a guy with female body movements.

[megan]

Maybe it is just my personality but I don't tend to go to things just because a friend invited me. I have to also be interested in the topic. I get invited to a lot of those mary kay make up party things which I find very odd since everyone knows that I don't wear make up. I never go. I in fact usually tell them that I will never go to a make up party and that it is nothing personal, I just don't wear or want to wear make up.

I don't find that I'm interested in a lot of things that are heavily geared towards one binary gender or another anyways. I guess if one of my cis-female friends invited me to her birthday party or a bachelorett party that was 'girls only' so to speak I would go but I would not participate in things I don't want to do like make up or fingernail painting ect. I'm out to my friends so they would know ahead of time if they wanted to include me in such an arrangement. So far most of my friends are non-traditional anyways and just invited their friends regardless of gender/sex to their bachelor or bachelorett parties so it hasn't been an issue.

I have never been invited to a 'guys only' event and I doubt I ever will since my body is pretty obviously female even if my brain is not.

[Edge]

Ok I'm confused. Are we talking about a group that's, like, Cis People's Club or are we talking about a group that happens to have cis people in it (in other words, an ordinary group)?

[megan]

May 13, 2015 23:58:56 GMT 8 Edge said:

Ok I'm confused. Are we talking about a group that's, like, Cis People's Club or are we talking about a group that happens to have cis people in it (in other words, an ordinary group)?

I took it to mean a sex-segregated event like a bachelor or bachelorett party traditionally is. Or like 'ladies night' or whatever. I wouldn't go to a cis people's club because I'm not cis, unless they asked me to talk about my experience of not being cis-gender.

Also is there such a thing as a cis-people club?  I mean isn't that like redundant.  Like having a white people club (in the US)?  The majority of people are cis.  Why would they need a special club?

[Edge]

May 14, 2015 23:32:18 GMT 8 megan said:

I took it to mean a sex-segregated event like a bachelor or bachelorett party traditionally is. Or like 'ladies night' or whatever. I wouldn't go to a cis people's club because I'm not cis, unless they asked me to talk about my experience of not being cis-gender.

Also is there such a thing as a cis-people club?  I mean isn't that like redundant.  Like having a white people club (in the US)?  The majority of people are cis.  Why would they need a special club?

Oh! Ok.
That's what I was thinking, but I got confused because the title says specifically "cis men's or ladies meetings."
If we're talking ordinary groups, then it depends on the group. If I'm not interested in the type of group, I'll be bored.

[Deleted]

May 15, 2015 0:12:12 GMT 8 Edge said:

May 14, 2015 23:32:18 GMT 8 megan said:

I took it to mean a sex-segregated event like a bachelor or bachelorett party traditionally is. Or like 'ladies night' or whatever. I wouldn't go to a cis people's club because I'm not cis, unless they asked me to talk about my experience of not being cis-gender.

Also is there such a thing as a cis-people club?  I mean isn't that like redundant.  Like having a white people club (in the US)?  The majority of people are cis.  Why would they need a special club?

Oh! Ok.
That's what I was thinking, but I got confused because the title says specifically "cis men's or ladies meetings."
If we're talking ordinary groups, then it depends on the group. If I'm n

ot interested in the type of group, I'll be bored.


Take the topic anywhere it wants to go.  It doesn't matter to me.
I am no longer either sex so I don't want to go to either group.  I don't understand them any more that well, I can if I want though.  I'm just sick of stealth and peer pressure.  

[Sisyphus]

I feel like this is when I was part of a recent social justice movement, and we had a problem where the male identified cis males were doing some serious domination. And the female identified cis females (presumably) wanted to start a woman's space so that talking could occur without being over ridden.

And I thought...wait, am I invited this group. Does this group include me? Am I allowed to go, and if I go am I an imposter? They think they're getting all women but they're not? Even though technically I know they meant to include me, the sheer title of the group felt like I didn't fit into that title so I should be included.

But I didn't want to bring it up in a way that made them feel like they couldn't be women or needed to erase their experience as women because I am non-binary, both and neither. Because in established hierachies perceived women do get the social crap kicked out of them for being perceived women.

[megan]

May 28, 2015 10:23:33 GMT 8 Sisyphus said:

I feel like this is when I was part of a recent social justice movement, and we had a problem where the male identified cis males were doing some serious domination. And the female identified cis females (presumably) wanted to start a woman's space so that talking could occur without being over ridden.

And I thought...wait, am I invited this group. Does this group include me? Am I allowed to go, and if I go am I an imposter? They think they're getting all women but they're not? Even though technically I know they meant to include me, the sheer title of the group felt like I didn't fit into that title so I should be included.

But I didn't want to bring it up in a way that made them feel like they couldn't be women or needed to erase their experience as women because I am non-binary, both and neither. Because in established hierachies perceived women do get the social crap kicked out of them for being perceived women.

Yeah I get this with 'women's rights' issues specifically things like reproductive rights. I'm technically not a woman but I have a female body and female reproductive organs. So even though in that situation it is a 'women's' group or movement I will still include myself. I sometimes also include myself in other women's groups because even though I don't personally identify that way I am perceived that way unless I verbally correct people which I don't do because that's just a lot of effort and I don't want to go around explaining my gender to everyone I meet for the rest of my life.

I guess for me I draw the line at is this group/movement working towards something that affects me vs. is this group/movement specifically about the experience of being a cis-woman. For example if it's about equality for women in the work place, well I am okay with being part of that because for all intents and purposes in the workplace 90% of people see me as a cis-woman regardless of my own identity. But if it were a group of women specifically talking about their experiences as a woman in the work place, well I probably wouldn't participate unless they specify that they include non-cis, and trans people as well because my internal experience is fundamentally different as a non-binary person even if I am still subject to the same issues of sexism that cis-women are.

So I'm guessing that line is going to be different for everyone depending on how you visibly express your gender and how 'out' you are. I'm pretty lazy and most of the time don't feel particularly strongly about my visual gender expression so I look feminine by default. I don't do anything to 'enhance' my femininity. I dress as neutrally as I can and usually go with slacks and a t-shirt or button up and do not do anything with make up or my hair. My hair is just long but not styled or dyed or in any elaborate hair do. Still it's pretty obvious my body is female since I don't bind or anything. I don't experience dysphoria so this doesn't bother me. It's my brain/mind/spirit I care more about in terms of my gender identity. But that's just me, my experience and my expression. I know some people feel more strongly about being mis-gendered but I don't really care that much if someone I hardly know mis-genders me. I only care about those closest to me and that I have the freedom to express myself in my actions in whatever way I want and am not held to a gender role. So I guess I fly under the radar a lot of the time because I'm assumed to be cis and I don't care enough to correct most people.

[Edge]

A note about women's rights stuff, a lot of trans guys have grown up experiencing sexism as girls and women. I understand wanting a women's only group, but at the same time, it's kind of a slap in the face. Like "you have to deny these things that you personally experienced because you're a man."
I'm not a fan of sex segregated groups in general though. I never understood the point. Not that I wouldn't go if I was interested, but I don't see the point of leaving people out if they're interested.

[Leena]

If this were some sort of political cis-meeting thing, I'd probably feel uncomfortable at either. If it was me getting to hang out with a group of girls, I'd fit right in, and love it. If it were me feeling forced to hang out with a group of guys, it happens all too often, and I hate it, but I can handle it.

[Ativan Prescribed]

Segregated by the binary idea of gender does suck. It reinforces their idea that they somehow are more correct than others.
Just because you have a larger group means nothing, and segregation is a form of bigotry.
I've never been to a male or female meeting of any kind, it always sounds like a stupid idea to me.