NinthPossibility
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Post by NinthPossibility on Jun 10, 2016 1:01:34 GMT 8
I've never created a thread before, so here's hoping I've put it in the right place and everything. Anyway. This may be a long shot, but I was wondering if anybody here has experience being out as non-binary in an academic environment? I'm an English teacher at an engineering school (interesting gender dynamics, incidentally - STEM field, so quite macho at times, primarily male students, exclusively female colleagues). I've only recently started my transition, but things should be moving pretty quickly now: I'm in the process of coming out to friends and family, I have my first appointment with a (vetted trans-positive) psychiatrist at the end of the month, and I intend to start visibly transitioning this summer (clothes, voice training, binder, possibly HRT) and then start the next school year presenting as neutral/masculine.
My question is basically this: exactly how "out" should/can I be? (Unfortunately I'm not yet super familiar with my legal protections at my job, so of course I'll do things very differently if it turns out I could lose my contract because of this - but for now I'm starting with the assumption that I can't be fired for being trans.) I figure I pretty much need to tell my colleagues, because they're surely going to notice the physical changes, but so are my students, and that's where it gets complicated. Do I just not say anything and let them gossip about my sudden absence of breasts? (They already gossip about my masculine shoes, so there's no chance they simply won't notice or care.) It doesn't really seem appropriate to tell them, but it seems a bit odd not to acknowledge it, either.
If anybody has any thoughts or experiences or words of wisdom, I'd love to hear them!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2016 1:35:50 GMT 8
Personally if I had a child in your class, I could care less who you are as long as you teach them for what they or I would be paying for. As long as it isn't a political science class I would expect that politics would be left out of the lesson plan. English should be the main concern and not left or right.
Personally I am a Libertarian which is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But I don't know shit because I don't have children. But if I did I would let them make up their own minds no matter left, right, center or whatever else.
Personally I don't think teachers or professors should be pushing political agendas but rather educating young minds in a certain field. But one thing that you have going for you is that you are trans. Don't push the envelope but rather let your students see you as a person. Any debates such as restroom, marriage and so on should not even be brought up in my opinion. The younger generation will appreciate the lessons in your area of expertise and see you as just a normal person trans or not. Activism should be left out of the classroom and pushed outside of a learning institution. There is a time and place and you have one hell of a chance to let the younger generation to see that we are all just normal. hell a few you may even inspire to embrace their own gender identity or sexual orientation and so on. That is what being a teacher is all about. Not pushing agendas but rather being honest and answering questions if any are asked and being totally open to the idea that everyone is different.
But if I had children I would have no problems with then being in your class. Hell I would prefer it even because diversity is the epitome of the human race.
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Post by Trinity on Jun 10, 2016 5:31:10 GMT 8
I suspect they are going to think you are really cool.
Find your comfort zone, live it and enjoy it, talk about how you feel in here.
Be mindful of your surroundings.
I know queer folk teaching in NY. No problem here.
Each culture is different.
I like this for you.
You going on T? Thats where it could be more dramatic.
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Post by Leena on Jun 10, 2016 6:17:50 GMT 8
How to approach this may depend a lot on where you are located. I had a professor come out as gay in one of my classes. Most of the other students applauded when he came out, but the administration did not. He did not get fired, but he was a tenured professor, it's very hard to fire one of them. He was forced to apologize to the class for talking about things that were not on the curriculum though, and said he couldn't talk about those things anymore. This was over a decade ago though, but was in North Carolina, a place that's not very LGBT friendly.
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Post by Valerie on Jun 10, 2016 10:08:15 GMT 8
Honestly, I wish I could say you should full force be able to be you! But in the teacher teaching world I understand that there's so much more you gotta be careful of including what you post online, and how much you share.
Hmm what age group are the children you teach? What area do you live in? Do you live in more conservative area or LGBTQIA friendly area?
If it's middle school/ high school age kids I'd say you'd probably be better off being more subtle with your transition because them Christian parents would probably implode if they found out their kids teacher was Trans. But if it's college age kids then you'd have more of a leeway with being you.
Honestly I wish you wouldn't even have to worry about or question any of this. You deserve to be you, and you deserve to be happy no matter what
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 1:29:04 GMT 8
How to approach this may depend a lot on where you are located. I had a professor come out as gay in one of my classes. Most of the other students applauded when he came out, but the administration did not. He did not get fired, but he was a tenured professor, it's very hard to fire one of them. He was forced to apologize to the class for talking about things that were not on the curriculum though, and said he couldn't talk about those things anymore. This was over a decade ago though, but was in North Carolina, a place that's not very LGBT friendly. That kind of sux. Ten years or so is not that long ago. BTW isn't North Carolina more or less a blue state? Or at least has been for the last two election cycles if I remember right. Hell it isn't like any of his students didn't already know.
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Post by Leena on Jun 12, 2016 5:46:39 GMT 8
How to approach this may depend a lot on where you are located. I had a professor come out as gay in one of my classes. Most of the other students applauded when he came out, but the administration did not. He did not get fired, but he was a tenured professor, it's very hard to fire one of them. He was forced to apologize to the class for talking about things that were not on the curriculum though, and said he couldn't talk about those things anymore. This was over a decade ago though, but was in North Carolina, a place that's not very LGBT friendly. That kind of sux. Ten years or so is not that long ago. BTW isn't North Carolina more or less a blue state? Or at least has been for the last two election cycles if I remember right. Hell it isn't like any of his students didn't already know. It's been more red lately, though the blue there was always more of the socially conservative, fiscally liberal type. While this happened quite awhile ago, I don't imagine it would go much better there now. If the OP is in a similar area, there could be similar backlash they should at least be prepared to deal with.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2016 23:05:12 GMT 8
That kind of sux. Ten years or so is not that long ago. BTW isn't North Carolina more or less a blue state? Or at least has been for the last two election cycles if I remember right. Hell it isn't like any of his students didn't already know. It's been more red lately, though the blue there was always more of the socially conservative, fiscally liberal type. While this happened quite awhile ago, I don't imagine it would go much better there now. If the OP is in a similar area, there could be similar backlash they should at least be prepared to deal with. I think you are right. I guess it all depends on where you are at. For instance where I grew up was fairly LGB OK as long as it stays behind closed doors. I do know of a few teachers when I was in high school that were gay and lesbian. Everyone knew especially those of us that were. But now though? I even have family members that I never thought would accept LGBTs that do and will actually stand up for us. So I can imagine that Charlotte NC would be a little more accepting than Mt. Airey.
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NinthPossibility
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Posts: 11
Gender: Non-Binary
Presentation: Masculine
Pronouns: They/Their/Them
Orientation: ???
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Post by NinthPossibility on Jun 16, 2016 22:26:52 GMT 8
Hey everybody, thanks for the feedback! (I only just realized I had replies...I could have sworn I had it set up to notify me by email when I get replies on threads I've created, but apparently not. Oops.) Anyway - yeah, something I should have been clearer about in my original post is that I teach university students (first year through master's level), so that at least removes one major concern - I don't have to worry about parents at all! Mostly I'm just trying to figure out what/how much I should say to my students (if anything). I'll probably have a lot of the same students next year that I did this year, and they are 100% going to notice that I'm wearing a binder (well, I mean, they probably won't know it's a binder, but they'll notice the suddenly flat chest), and the masculine clothes, and effects from T (I'm going to try to start a low dose this summer.) So on the one hand I feel like I should definitely say something, because they're going to be wondering about it, but on the other hand it seems like maybe overshare? I have a year-to-year contract, so very little job security, and stories like Veronica Lynn's kind of freak me out I suppose I'll wait to see how my boss reacts and then talk to her about it.
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Post by Valerie on Jun 16, 2016 23:26:20 GMT 8
Hmmm.... Honestly, if your students notice I'm sure they'll be able to figure it out themselves especially being college and all, but also you're their teacher, and what you do really shouldn't be their business. Like you said it'd be over sharing info that really isn't any of their business. I mean I think the most you only have to do is ask them to use the pronouns that you would prefer, and whether you prefer hearing "mr." Or not.
Idk... I just think you deserve to be you, and be you whole heartedly.
And booooo the lack of job security sounds rather stressful and sucky.
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Post by Trinity on Jun 17, 2016 0:25:33 GMT 8
I work as an estimator in construction in a very Italian male driven environment. I have no problems, but its NY and I have not shared my gender identity. However, my nails are nearly a half inch long, I wear rings, I have breasts (modest ones), my hair is longer than any other guy here, my eyebrows are shaped and I wear women's jeans. I just make it a non issue, its all about the job, none about gender. And I play it down, I wait till I get outside to move presentationally to my true identity. Yes, communication is hugely important. And knowing your rights. The key is being mindful of other people's comfort zones, I am hyperaware of the guys around me, I read their comfort zones and I wont push it. Most remain clueless that I am fully transitioned no op trans.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 1:35:38 GMT 8
Hey everybody, thanks for the feedback! (I only just realized I had replies...I could have sworn I had it set up to notify me by email when I get replies on threads I've created, but apparently not. Oops.) Anyway - yeah, something I should have been clearer about in my original post is that I teach university students (first year through master's level), so that at least removes one major concern - I don't have to worry about parents at all! Mostly I'm just trying to figure out what/how much I should say to my students (if anything). I'll probably have a lot of the same students next year that I did this year, and they are 100% going to notice that I'm wearing a binder (well, I mean, they probably won't know it's a binder, but they'll notice the suddenly flat chest), and the masculine clothes, and effects from T (I'm going to try to start a low dose this summer.) So on the one hand I feel like I should definitely say something, because they're going to be wondering about it, but on the other hand it seems like maybe overshare? I have a year-to-year contract, so very little job security, and stories like Veronica Lynn's kind of freak me out I suppose I'll wait to see how my boss reacts and then talk to her about it. Screw it. I wouldn't say anything and ease into it and let them figure it out on their own. If not then we are in trouble with this up and coming generation. Just be yourself and take small steps. A lot will get it but won't say anything and those that have a problem with it can change. Veronica also said that that was ten+ years ago too. Times have changed and still changing.
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Post by Leena on Jun 17, 2016 7:46:35 GMT 8
Hey everybody, thanks for the feedback! (I only just realized I had replies...I could have sworn I had it set up to notify me by email when I get replies on threads I've created, but apparently not. Oops.) Anyway - yeah, something I should have been clearer about in my original post is that I teach university students (first year through master's level), so that at least removes one major concern - I don't have to worry about parents at all! Mostly I'm just trying to figure out what/how much I should say to my students (if anything). I'll probably have a lot of the same students next year that I did this year, and they are 100% going to notice that I'm wearing a binder (well, I mean, they probably won't know it's a binder, but they'll notice the suddenly flat chest), and the masculine clothes, and effects from T (I'm going to try to start a low dose this summer.) So on the one hand I feel like I should definitely say something, because they're going to be wondering about it, but on the other hand it seems like maybe overshare? I have a year-to-year contract, so very little job security, and stories like Veronica Lynn's kind of freak me out I suppose I'll wait to see how my boss reacts and then talk to her about it. Sorry, I didn't mean to freak you out, just wanted to make you aware of how it could go badly. I do suggest that if you feel you must say something, you not do it like my professor did. He handed out a letter with a long explanation and asked if there were any questions, making it a class discussion, and taking up a lot of class time. Although I don't think that was all the main thing the administration objected to, that was the part they can and did officially object to.
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NinthPossibility
New Member
Posts: 11
Gender: Non-Binary
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Pronouns: They/Their/Them
Orientation: ???
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Post by NinthPossibility on Jun 17, 2016 16:43:16 GMT 8
Hey everybody, thanks for the feedback! (I only just realized I had replies...I could have sworn I had it set up to notify me by email when I get replies on threads I've created, but apparently not. Oops.) Anyway - yeah, something I should have been clearer about in my original post is that I teach university students (first year through master's level), so that at least removes one major concern - I don't have to worry about parents at all! Mostly I'm just trying to figure out what/how much I should say to my students (if anything). I'll probably have a lot of the same students next year that I did this year, and they are 100% going to notice that I'm wearing a binder (well, I mean, they probably won't know it's a binder, but they'll notice the suddenly flat chest), and the masculine clothes, and effects from T (I'm going to try to start a low dose this summer.) So on the one hand I feel like I should definitely say something, because they're going to be wondering about it, but on the other hand it seems like maybe overshare? I have a year-to-year contract, so very little job security, and stories like Veronica Lynn's kind of freak me out I suppose I'll wait to see how my boss reacts and then talk to her about it. Sorry, I didn't mean to freak you out, just wanted to make you aware of how it could go badly. I do suggest that if you feel you must say something, you not do it like my professor did. He handed out a letter with a long explanation and asked if there were any questions, making it a class discussion, and taking up a lot of class time. Although I don't think that was all the main thing the administration objected to, that was the part they can and did officially object to. No worries - I just meant that I know that sort of thing does happen, and so it makes me a bit nervous. I'll probably end up just not saying anything and seeing how it goes - I have an English-only classroom and my students don't speak English very well, so odds are none of them will feel confident enough to actually ask me about it At any rate, I wouldn't make it a big production. That is a bit odd what that professor did, although it's a shame that people working in a university environment couldn't be a bit more willing to challenge their own beliefs. After all, regardless of the subject he was teaching, broadening your mind is supposed to be kind of the point of higher education.
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NinthPossibility
New Member
Posts: 11
Gender: Non-Binary
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Pronouns: They/Their/Them
Orientation: ???
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ninthpossibility
Non-Binary
Masculine
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Post by NinthPossibility on Jun 17, 2016 16:52:16 GMT 8
Hmmm.... Honestly, if your students notice I'm sure they'll be able to figure it out themselves especially being college and all, but also you're their teacher, and what you do really shouldn't be their business. Like you said it'd be over sharing info that really isn't any of their business. I mean I think the most you only have to do is ask them to use the pronouns that you would prefer, and whether you prefer hearing "mr." Or not. Idk... I just think you deserve to be you, and be you whole heartedly. And booooo the lack of job security sounds rather stressful and sucky. Yes, I've been wondering about the Mr./Ms. thing - I'm not super comfortable with either option. I may just side-step the whole question and ask them to call me by my first name (Darcy.) I teach in France, and the name Darcy very much does not read as immediately feminine the way it would in most English-speaking countries - in fact, if they've ever heard the name at all, it's usually Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice And yes, the job insecurity is a pain! But the good news is that as a native English speaker with a French degree in English education and several years' experience, I don't have any trouble *finding* a job. It's just that the posts are often only for one or two years max, or they can choose not to renew my contract on a whim...which does suck. But more good news is that most places hire straight from CVs without any job interviews, so they won't know about my gender or presentation until after I've been hired
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