Reclaiming the body- and separation from others

[Trinity]

I was of course resoundingly bullied, we know that its old news.

I used to move like a woman, it was commented on frequently. Crossed legs, the way I walked, used my hands all like a woman.

Then I felt extreme pressure to get rid of all of that, the manorisms, the way I walked, all of it.  Deliberately trained out of me.

I took a walk today at break at work, I want to lose 4 ounces of fat today. As I walked, two things occurred to me.

One was that I had nothing in common with anyone anywhere here, that because I am transgender and was born that way, I do not fit in, I will never fit in, I will always be a loner.

The second was that (this sounds like splitting its probably not at all) as I was walking, he, who protects and controls my motor nerves and demeaner in the workplace, he was losing his grip on she, who was out enjoying her walk and the sun and weather, and was trying to relax.

I was doing isometrics basically, the Ativan tummy excercize for the waist, and standing tall, and dropping by shoulders and releasing by internal diaphragm, which is a theater thing, and trying to relax.

And as I relaxed, back comes the swing.

On the street I can easily force body language to female.  And its extremely easy to do.  But what I wonder is, if I had trained myself out of that same body language because it was natural, shouldn't I just relax and trust that its real and going to come back?

Learned motor nerve response, muscle memory.  A disfavor of being reprogrammed in my youth.

I wonder about you.   Some of us present in multiple demeanors, some are in a more static presentation, all of us are trans.

What comes naturally to you?   Did you lose something and go back and get it?  And are you always alone in a crowd- only with a few am I not, and they are usually trans.  Maybe always....except my wife.  But I am full out with her now anyway so what the heck.

They used to say I was shameful because of how I walked, moved my hands.  Into middle age they did this.   Now I wish I hadn't bought into that.  But, the learned behavior really is useful, when it is needed.

Trouble is so much layering is there it is really hard to sort out what is BS and what is truth.

What's your experience my dear ones?

Trinity

[Ativan Prescribed]

I don't think learned behavior should be called BS.
A lot of it has to do with survival, so it is like any learned behavior like that.
A survival course whether in general or for dire circumstances.
Body movements are key as well as knowing what to do in certain circumstances.

I know my hand movements are feminine, but fluid is more like it.
I've said before that 'it's not girlie, it's graceful, dammit'.
I don't always grab things with all of my fingers, the little one might not be used.
Wiggle when you walk?
Swagger is what some people see it as, depends on the person.

I know my movements are from the more female side of me, but I never claimed that to be feminine.
But there is that element to my body movements, just the same.
But because people don't see a woman, they interpret them differently.
Again, it depends on the person, but most don't see feminine.
I don't know what they see, I've been told it just looks different.
Because it's different, people don't know what to expect.
I've been told I look scary when I'm mad.
That's when I feel my movements are less masculine.

I talk with my hands a lot, especially when I am in an involved conversation.
They don't conform to any masculine gestures, female either, they just move as I talk.
But that can be seen as a feminine thing, hand gestures when talking.

When I was young, still in school, I was less and less teased about being girlie.
As I learned to move with intent to be masculine, it was learned behavior.
A friend of mine used to show me (with exaggeration) how I walked and then showed me how to walk.
John Wayne does walk like a girl, but people call that swagger, because it's the Duke...
I walk with that learned walk, but it doesn't feel like BS, it just feels like a more masculine way to walk.
It fits what people see better and consequently, I don't stand out, a survival skill if there ever was one.
Walking through the countryside in a stealthy manner is fluid and feminine in nature at times, it just is.
You can't be jerky, it stands out to much from the surroundings (think of how things move in a light wind or breeze).

Now I'm sitting here adjusting my hair tie and realizing just how feminine the movements are.
I don't think anyone would accuse me of doing it girlie, how else do you do it?
Dinner is almost ready, and I'll alternately hold a fork and knife either way, I know I do that.
It's fluid and holding something sharp while doing that can just look dangerous.

[Trinity]

I stand corrected on the bs...

Good point...

[Ativan Prescribed]

I laughed out loud at myself while eating dinner just now.
(I use a keyboard with a four finger hunt and peck style, and my pinkies always sticks out)

The BS is a subjective thing, if it is for you, then it is.

[Trinity]

Mar 17, 2016 6:37:29 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

I laughed out loud at myself while eating dinner just now.
(I use a keyboard with a four finger hunt and peck style, and my pinkies always sticks out)

The BS is a subjective thing, if it is for you, then it is.

Its a valid point and changes perspective.

The anger at having to learn it twists the truth... Thats a problem now.  Probably always was.

I need to look at it.

Tsj

[Trinity]

Its just as valid "passing" as "macho"

Nb mode it doesnt matter...just being yourself...

Interesting..

[Ativan Prescribed]

I used to have a lot of anger at having to present myself as more masculine.
It wasn't until the female side of me decided it was more kick-ass for that side of me that it became less angry.
Those female aspects learned male behavior to an extent.
The male aspects learn to accept the more feminine and put a twist on them to possibly look more masculine.

But still there was always a level of anger.
That anger dissipated more and more over the last 4-5 years, but there is still some left.
It just isn't significant, there are better things to use my time on.

Maybe it's all still there and I've just made it less significant, I can't really tell.
There are times where there is a flash of anger, but it's more momentary, rather than something I dwell on anymore.

I can tell if it's the more female aspects of me making movements, as well as the masculine aspects.
But the aspects are a blend almost always.
So the movements become either more feminine or more masculine, but rarely are they simply one or the other.

[Trinity]

Surprised others have not weighed in yet. Id like to know how it is for all of us, binary and nonbinary..


The anger is deeper than gender. It goes very deep, gender plats a huge role.

But you know some of the horrors my kids went through.

Taking it slow here, off balance and depressed.

Lets go back to muscle memory...

How natural is your gender or target gender body language?

At this point for me i guess it all is once the emotional blocks clear.

Back to treehouse..

Tsj

[EchelonHunt]

I've never paid attention to whether I am feminine or masculine in how I walk or hand gestures. Sure, my ex in America made a huge fuss out of my feminine mannerisms but I never thought of it as feminine until she flipped her shit over it. The problem wasn't my mannerisms, it was her, due to her deep insecurity of any display of femininity around her. I noticed she would be extremely jealous of any confident, attractive women who were in her presence.

At least, I had better hair than her! I can look more girl than she could ever dream to be! Feel the burn!

Mostly, I just want to express myself freely. I find I put on a front, become standoffish towards others, especially in class and social situations with people I don't know. I get to be myself at home and at the non-binary therapist session, be a silly spazz but I want to be like that everywhere. I want to be a wild child, to let the inner child out to play.

It's weird because lecturers will take my silence to their advice as a bad thing. It's not that it was bad, I was processing what they were saying, keeping it in mind. I should probably say, "Oh okay, thanks." next time instead of just a nod or zoning out in deep thought of "Ok, I do this next and that as well to make it better." lol.

[Shan]

I don't relate at all to this and probably shouldn't butt in but something Jacey said made me think about something. I was at a gay bar where a lot of trans people hang out, there's a great sound system and dance floor. So I'm swilling down a Manhattan while standing at the end of the bar chatting up this drop-dead-gorgeous lesbian woman friend who is pouring drinks for customers, when these two equally pretty little women walk up and tell us that they are lesbians from Montana. It's all I could do to keep from breaking out laughing. They ask me if I prefer men or women and then one backs up to me so that our butts are touching and her girlfriend measures us, I come out 1.5 inches taller. Se we head to the dance floor and work up a big sweat, the gals were kind of fun until along comes the third one which I hadn't been aware of. She is a butt ugly dyke and she stands there glaring at me with that (I know you're a man and I hate men) look. Then she hustles the two little gals away just in case I have cooties or something. I genuinely like most of the GLBTQ community, but her type could turn a nice person like myself into a stone cold killer. Sorry for derailing the thread. 

[Ativan Prescribed]

I don't see it as one big community anymore.
There's trans and there's gay.

[Shan]

Mar 18, 2016 4:06:31 GMT 8 Ativan Prescribed said:

I don't see it as one big community anymore.
There's trans and there's gay.

That's absolutely true and for me it always has been that way. However this gay bar is the best place in Seattle where trans women can go dancing and feel safe, Cis women can go dance with gay men or women and NB types and enjoy themselves without the constant discomfort of being hit on by the normally aggressive hetro males looking for a hot time. Since I'm generally not bigoted against any particular stripe of person I get along and enjoy the environment too. I used to, don't go there anymore, the little woman thinks the neighborhood has become dangerous.

[Ativan Prescribed]

The bar scene has always been a mix of people, unless it's a 'neighborhood' corner bar.

[Trinity]

Memories that I can't afford to indulge there Shan....I have been tempted today by booze and drugs again but not based on your post.

However now that we mention it, in the night time, when I am by myself, it is a feminine thing. Behind the wheel it becomes a masculine thing. It all depends on my environment, and my body naturally adapts to that environment, the surroundings, the need for protection, the fears, etc.

But to be totally relaxed, on the street, its full out she while he takes a break.

If that makes any sense whatsoever. Its not splitting, its just me. I am always sh'e.

[Trinity]

The bar was always a pick up joint for me. Its not a pretty story.

But gay, not straight.

Straight I'd hit the foosball table and the pool tables till closing. Play for beers.

Straight disco's some girl would come on to me and Id drink until I woke up in the broom closet. Not kidding that's where they would drag me when I passed out.