This bill can't do everything

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2015 2:41:52 GMT 8 Shan said:

It's all about money!

Lots of things are, but I personally have solved that problem by not having any.

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2015 2:46:09 GMT 8 @foxglove said:

Feb 10, 2015 2:41:52 GMT 8 Shan said:

It's all about money!

Lots of things are, but I personally have solved that problem by not having any.

[Emily]

It's money and votes - every MP always considers what would electorate say and how to keep their votes...
And You were absolutely correct in assuming that they really think that they are the smartest cookies... I have seen it countless times, drafting laws and by-laws in executive working groups, then going over them in parliamentary committees, where experts (real experts!) are invited. And seeing parliamentaries coming from areas like medicine, journalism, private business pretending that they know better about very specific areas and that experts, working in those areas on the daily basis, are trying to outsmart them... There are good and reasonable people, but ignorant and stupid ones are those who are remembered.

[Deleted]

An update on this issue:

Debate on the Gender Recognition Bill concluded in the Senate (i.e., the upper house of the Irish parliament) today. The minister has still refused to address the main issues raised in the debate:

(1) the necessity for married trans people to get divorced;

(2) the lack of provision for young trans people; and

(3) the pathologisation of transgenderism.

It appears that the minister did agree to remove the words "medical evaluation" from the legislation.  I'm not sure exactly how this is going to affect anything.  I suppose it might make it sound like transgenderism is no longer a "medical" (i.e., psychiatric) issue.  On the other hand, the need to get an evaluation from a psychiatrist is still in the legislation.  So it sounds to me like this concession is rather hollow.

The minister did accept one amendment: two years after the legislation is passed, it will be reviewed to see how it's working.  In other words, "Don't bother me now.  We'll look into it in two years' time."  I.e., this is a concession that costs him nothing at all.

Well, the Senate passed the bill, which now goes to the lower house, where no doubt the minister will continue to refuse to consider the necessary amendments.

The problems with this bill are obvious and have been repeatedly pointed out to the powers-that-be.  Why do they have to be so bloody stubborn?  These issues are not going to go away.  They're going to need to be addressed at some point.  So why not now?  Strike while the iron is hot.  If the bill is passed as is, then trans people are simply going to have to keep campaigning until things are put right.  We're going to have to keep badgering people who just want to forget about these issues.  So why not get it right now, and then we can all get on with our business?

People can be so pointlessly stubborn.  And they say we transpeople are irrational.  Ha!

[Deleted]

Feb 19, 2015 1:52:20 GMT 8 @foxglove said:

The problems with this bill are obvious and have been repeatedly pointed out to the powers-that-be.  Why do they have to be so bloody stubborn?  These issues are not going to go away.  They're going to need to be addressed at some point.  So why not now?  Strike while the iron is hot.  If the bill is passed as is, then trans people are simply going to have to keep campaigning until things are put right.  We're going to have to keep badgering people who just want to forget about these issues.  So why not get it right now, and then we can all get on with our business?

People can be so pointlessly stubborn.  And they say we transpeople are irrational.  Ha!

There's probably too much logic in your kind of thinking when they can simply poke their heads under the sand and hope it goes away. It seems that politicians here function the same way and roll issues they just don't want to deal with ahead for the next administration. 

[Deleted]

Yep--and that would be OK if it weren't real human lives that they're messing with.

[Deleted]

Another update on the situation:

On Thursday this legislation was debated in the Dail (rhymes with "boil"), the lower house of the Irish parliament. Many T.D.'s (members of the Dail) spoke, all pointing out the well-known flaws in this bill. Oddly (at least to my mind) a number of them who spoke are members of Fine Gael and Labour, the two parties currently in the coalition forming the government. You'd think if members of those two parties agree that the bill badly needs to be amended, then the minister in charge would agree to amend it.  We'll see what happens.

[Deleted]

Another update, with some good news this time. The legislation proposed would require a trans person to get a "medical practitioner" to vouch for them, and "medical practitioner" is defined as a psychiatrist or endocrinologist. In other words, the legislation is pathologizing transgenderism.

However, the Minister overseeing the legislation announced today that he's going to consult with medical organizations to see how GP's can be brought into the process. That is, this is a step towards recognizing a GP as a valid "medical practitioner". Now this still unnecessarily involves a medical person in the process of having your gender legally recognized. However, in my view this is no big deal. I'd simply have to go to my GP and get a letter from her stating that yes, I'm trans and she's dealing with it. My GP is really nice. I've already discussed certain issues with her and she wouldn't give me any trouble about doing what needed to be done.

So this step would certainly simplify things. Maybe still not a perfect solution, but at least the Minister has felt compelled to back off a bit. And that's a bit of progress.

[Deleted]

Mar 11, 2015 1:53:17 GMT 8 @foxglove said:

Another update, with some good news this time. The legislation proposed would require a trans person to get a "medical practitioner" to vouch for them, and "medical practitioner" is defined as a psychiatrist or endocrinologist. In other words, the legislation is pathologizing transgenderism.

However, the Minister overseeing the legislation announced today that he's going to consult with medical organizations to see how GP's can be brought into the process. That is, this is a step towards recognizing a GP as a valid "medical practitioner". Now this still unnecessarily involves a medical person in the process of having your gender legally recognized. However, in my view this is no big deal. I'd simply have to go to my GP and get a letter from her stating that yes, I'm trans and she's dealing with it. My GP is really nice. I've already discussed certain issues with her and she wouldn't give me any trouble about doing what needed to be done.

So this step would certainly simplify things. Maybe still not a perfect solution, but at least the Minister has felt compelled to back off a bit. And that's a bit of progress.

Sounds like a reasonable compromise. Like we were saying in the other thread about the fitness center, it would probably be best to have some documentation by a medical professional to verify one's trans status as opposed to people just proclaiming themselves to be thus and so.

[Deleted]

I myself have no real problem with this. I suppose some people might. But my GP is very trans-friendly, and I don't think anyone would have too much trouble finding a trans-friendly GP. After all, if medical people are interested in trans people being healthy, then they will support our right to live as we need to live. Are there any harmful effects on our health if we're not living as we need to? I think we can all answer that question.