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Post by Luna on Jan 23, 2015 14:06:45 GMT 8
SJ,
Glad to hear things have settled down for you level wise, it's not a good feeling when things oscillate wildly.
Aisla,
Totally understand the desire to push harder on the dosages, I'm often tempted myself, but that's probably one of the great things being on pellet - I can't just up my doses anymore. In any case, I'm at a stable place right now and hope to keep things that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 4:23:54 GMT 8
SJ, Glad to hear things have settled down for you level wise, it's not a good feeling when things oscillate wildly. Aisla, Totally understand the desire to push harder on the dosages, I'm often tempted myself, but that's probably one of the great things being on pellet - I can't just up my doses anymore. In any case, I'm at a stable place right now and hope to keep things that way. The pellet is suppose to be by far the very best continuous delivery system there is.
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Dani
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Post by Dani on Feb 26, 2015 8:57:54 GMT 8
Hi all, I'm still a bit unsure what can be asked here in regards to hormones. Is a dosage related question ok? (not seen a single one, so thats why I'm asking) I'm just curious about my recent Estradiol Valerate serum blood level, and its correlation to my dosage. Not even asking for any specifics, just sort of ballpark stuff. I am my doctor's first and only trans patient and even though we have been learning together, I still would just like to get another opinion. Where I was before this was kinda like asking someone if they would mind holding on to some plutonium for just a sec. . If this is not ok here either then....well I'll just have to keep on digging through internet links. Thanks, Dani If not, PM?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 9:23:48 GMT 8
Hi all, I'm still a bit unsure what can be asked here in regards to hormones. Is a dosage related question ok? (not seen a single one, so thats why I'm asking) I'm just curious about my recent Estradiol Valerate serum blood level, and its correlation to my dosage. Not even asking for any specifics, just sort of ballpark stuff. I am my doctor's first and only trans patient and even though we have been learning together, I still would just like to get another opinion. Where I was before this was kinda like asking someone if they would mind holding on to some plutonium for just a sec. . If this is not ok here either then....well I'll just have to keep on digging through internet links. Thanks, Dani If not, PM? It should be ok because we don't have any gestapo or vopo's here Dani!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 9:54:25 GMT 8
Hi all, I'm still a bit unsure what can be asked here in regards to hormones. Is a dosage related question ok? (not seen a single one, so thats why I'm asking) I'm just curious about my recent Estradiol Valerate serum blood level, and its correlation to my dosage. Not even asking for any specifics, just sort of ballpark stuff. I am my doctor's first and only trans patient and even though we have been learning together, I still would just like to get another opinion. Where I was before this was kinda like asking someone if they would mind holding on to some plutonium for just a sec. . If this is not ok here either then....well I'll just have to keep on digging through internet links. Thanks, Dani If not, PM? It should be ok because we don't have any gestapo or vopo's here Dani! I am on e cyp. E val is supposed to.peak higher and has a shorter half life. Target estradiol serums vary by person or endo. I od'd once on e cyp. Ask away. We hide dose so some poor person doesn't self med and die. But it's not a rule...i shared my dose here... So...i can't speak to dose. But it's because I take different med from you. But be careful. Dynamite in a needle. Did they ramp you up? Curious. Strong stuff, e cyp. I think e Val is more of a roller coaster on serums. We react differently too. Mine makes me a bit high, anddcolors get vibrant after a shot. Right away. And the crashing is rough for me. Anxiety producing. Sooo, what's up?
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Post by Dani on Feb 26, 2015 10:57:05 GMT 8
Great, been running out of ideas for a check, thanks. My doctor and I have been working through a dosage of EV and a cycle that works for me. As far as the cycles go at first I was at two weeks (valleys spelled disaster), then 10 days (much better), now for the last few months every 7 days (for me, perfect). Dosage started at 20mg/14 days, then 20mg/10 days, now 15mg/7days (just an adjustment of cycle rather that dose). I feel very good, no peaks, no valleys, feminizing results very good, but here is where my question lies, I just had my first estradiol serum level done and its very high 881pg/ml, now before everyones yells EGAD, run to get it changed, here is why I believe its about 200+ higher than normal. I just had open hernia surgery and have had orders to lie flat as much as possible, I normally walk about 4 to 5 miles every night, so because I inject in my thigh, well theres been zero exercise to continue blood flow in the muscles across 2 injection cycles. So anyway thats the background info, heres the question: Assuming all is as I believe and it indeed returns to about what I think it will, is approx. 600pg/ml really too high? I know its way high according to the 'old' tables, but according to newer, they state values from 400 to 800pg/ml for mtf transition. My doctor listened to my reasoning and says well ok, have another serum done in three weeks and if it does not go down we should probably lengthen the cycle back to 10 days without changing the dosage, which I suppose is fine with me, its just I could use some input as to what current ideas are for the 400 to 800mg thing. OK, that about wraps that up, thanks to any and all who help with what they have heard, OR just want to give any ideas about anything, ok maybe not anything Thanks soooooo much, Dani
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on Feb 26, 2015 11:30:23 GMT 8
Do you have any Plutonium? (Just checking)(Could come in handy) (never know when a little Plutonium is just the thing you need...)
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Post by Dani on Feb 26, 2015 11:45:44 GMT 8
Do you have any Plutonium? (Just checking)(Could come in handy) (never know when a little Plutonium is just the thing you need...) Jeez Ativan, I dont know when I've laughed so quickly and so outloud. Oh man that was good!!! Now as to my lending any out, well..........that could put me on every list imaginable, you know black helicopters, the whole sheebang , so well................ wink/wink.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 21:10:47 GMT 8
I can only speak from experience. If you look at my history you know that I have had a wild ride with hormones. Also I am 57 years old. That is relevent. 800, for my doc, would be considered outside max. His optimum range for me personally is between 300 and 450. I draw bloods tonight, I expect them to be scewed because i hit a vien on my last injection, and yes, I feel it. I started with a 1 mg oral, went to 2 3 months later, to 4 3 months later, to 6 3 months later, and pulled a lousy 35 at low end orally. Sublingual it was ranging and bottoming 3 times a day. Hated it. Then they started estadiol cypionate, went from 1cc once a week slowly ramping to 2.0, and was at 2.0 when I hit 475 on probably a freak measurement. So I went up to around 475, measurements at the bottom trough. I dont know my top end numbers. His intern dropped me 25% to 1.5 cc and it overcorrected to 135. The resulting destabilization resulted in a meltdown on the old place, on Ativan personally intervening and telling me I lost it, and I could not see it. Everyone else did. I had to even stay off the forum, so the reduction was destabilizing. It needed to be backed down VERY slowly, in my case. Like you, the valleys have been very uncomfortable. I am not the only one with wild rides on injections. There is reputed to be risk involved with high E levels, ask Shan, they almost went to their permanent vacation home in the sky over that. I would check with the sages here, I know Patti will agree with me, she was on the phone talking me through the OD while I tried to get a million dollar bid out. It was a nightmare, I couldnt breath, the anxiety and fear were paralyzing, and I was tryign to avoid yet another mental breakdown from fear related to transition, and not get fired in the process. Hormones exascerbated this. Blah. And I did get demoted eventually, which has turned out to be a Godsend. LOL. So, no, cant speak of dosage, e cyp is like ten times stronger than e val. I will say though that I am on 2.5 cc E cyp, 200 mg spiro and 5 mg finesteride, and this is a monster dose and can be deadly. I get bloods every three weeks and a call from the endo with the results. This type info is on the net elsewhere, so thats mine. If anyone self doses, this is a death dose, get a freaking endo. E cyp has a longer half life, less spiking. But I can speak to swings, and these need stabilizing. Ativan can actually tell when I inject based on the tone of my posts....I watch my tongue on Thursdays, probably am talking too much now, under the influence of bottoming. Thats the thing with hormones, I cant even tell. Just know to ignore anxiety on Wednesday nights and Thursdays, and my energy levels are going to tank so I will eat better food today. On a side note, and this will piss some folk off here, my endo will not go to twice a week injections for me. He does not want to mess with this one, since the levels are finally not all over the place and are in normal range. So I need to manage my THC reactions..... ha ha ha, I screwed with a letter thingy for us.... LOL, trans hormone cycle.... thc.... giggle giggle silly. I inject tonight. Typically, anxiety will hit around noon, and I will disqualify it as hormonal and not pay attention to it. Tomorrow around noon I will be high as a kite. Cypionate contributes to the narc effect on me. I suspect. But the takeway sweetie is that a dosage redux needs to be handled very carefully indeed, and perhaps you would like to share this post with your endo. Those seem to be very high levels for someone that isnt 16 years old. Most girls are running at 200, and the older ones are at 100-200, with fine results. My tits are too small, part of why he has me high dose, I got a quarter cup out of that increase and am overjoyed to get it. I wish I had b cups, big time I want that. And I went 172 pounds down to 138 at 5'9" before HRT, at start no hormones T was around 400 and E was zero. I lost the weight so that fat would go where I want it, so I can be eye candy to me, so I could be a girl body. Without the body fat, the hormones are harder to control. That is my experience with it dear. Enjoy it, this new birth of yours, this diamond of trans you found in your heart, and are beginning to form into a brilliant stone, using the endo to begin changing the raw unformed stone into your wildest glittering dreams. Just be careful backing it down. I may be peaking at 600 too, who knows, we measure the bottom not the top. Measurement timing is very important on injections. I measure 6 hours before injecting, every time, on time. LOL your bottoms gunna get bigger.... If it was me, I would suggest staying weekly and backing it off 0.1 cc at a time, or 0.05 at a time, till he gets the levels he wants. But that is physician steering, yet, that is my suggestion personally as a suggestiong to him, based on the crash I had and the near miss on keeping my sanity. Trinity, aka Satinjoy
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Post by Dani on Feb 27, 2015 1:27:03 GMT 8
Hi Trinity and thanks for the detailed account, I know the time that takes, much appreciated!!!
First if you please let get a little clarification before I hone down some of my info. From everything I've read so far and believe me I never thought my fingers would have investigated this many links, when it comes to blood draws for EV, all seem to agree that mid point between injections give the most accurate and reliable result. EC, well I dunno, is the procedure for this variation of E different? With that said, if EC is anything like EV, your mid point between injections would have been a little higher than 475, but again I stress I know nothing about values for EC.
OK, now for a couple info bits: I use 40mg/ml EV, I do not experience 'any' peaks or valleys as over time at 7 day cycles the peaks begin merge and it is known that once this begins the resulting peaks actually are 'higher' than the original ones were, not by much but a little nonetheless. I inject .35 ml which amounts to 15mg and to move down to .1 ml would amount to a very low dose. I do not experience any shifts in mood/thought/behavior/or physical problems anymore (with the exception of a very low grade headache once in awhile, which is the most common side effect listed). I list these because as far as I can tell there seems to be no problematic issues that at least I am aware of.
My hope (and reasoning) is that my levels will return to around 600pg/ml after I get back to my 4 to 5 mile daily walks plus my outdoors work (I maintain a 3 1/2 acre garden), oh by the way, my health measurements 'consistantly' are in the excellent range i.e. blood presure, pulse, just had an EKG (doctor said it was perfect), not bad for 63, I eat as close to a Mediterranean diet as I can, 2 tablespoon doses of 'ultra premium' EVOO olive oil and krill oil daily for getting my high quality fat. Breast growth progress is in my humble opinion 'cool with me!' last 3 months has given me a full B cup.
So I guess the main point I'm trying to narrow down is: all of the 'old' studies for estrogen levels for mtf transition all agree that staying around 200 is ideal, but I have read three or four newer studies (I would have to check my bookmarks, now that is a job in itself, there are hundreds), that show repeated statistics where the numbers are more in the 400 to 800 range, and 'still' safe. This is what I'm hoping someone has done any extensive reading on and what they may have learned. I'm well aware of how slow moving change can be for excepted methodologies by doctors who are rooted in 'being safe'. I'm just really interested in what info others may know.
I hope this clarifies more about my individual circumstance and also a sort of restate on what I hope to learn. Again, I thank you for taking that much time to help, THAT is what makes our world slowly get better and better. I hope for you 'your' situation turns out good, you and us all deserve nothing less. Love you all, Dani
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 1:35:54 GMT 8
It's all endo driven for me. More later dear...at work, no time till tomorrow if lucky...
Will read your post later.
I am no expert, just trans on injections...
Actually dumped everything I know into that one post, now I get to learn from you!!
Blessings
Trinity
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 2:11:40 GMT 8
I snuck a look, no, not decrease to 0.1, and I have no business suggesting anything whatsoever on dose etc. Forget that please.
But your news is encouraging since my dose is high, and I wonder now just how high they are.
Done for a while here. And kinda happy to have shared.
Trinity
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Post by Dani on Mar 17, 2015 8:49:33 GMT 8
OK, could use some help here. I need to get an idea of a general set of numbers for low, med, and high EV IM dosages. Not necessarily your actual numbers, just what you've seen or know of. I've seen elusive things before but somehow I think it may be easier to find that pot 'o' gold that is right around the corner. So let me do this: Does this look right? Look wrong? Close? Out of the Ballpark? Low= 20 to 60mg/month Med= 80 to 120mg/month High= 140 to ? I found one forum that discusses dosages but it took only a short time to realize most all self medicated (solely, no dr. at all) so did not trust at all. The other, well it just cant happen in any way shape or form. Asking a Dr. has a high likelyhood of getting an answer that is either biased or they are to scared to risk it. I need to have an informed conversation with my Dr. soon and I'm sure she will trust what I ask for, important: this is not so I know what to ask for, just for general background info. Kind of like driving down the freeway without a speedometer and wondering if you'll get a ticket. And there is a thread in another place discussing at great length how satisfied people are with their 'low dose' hrt. Maybe I'm the only one that truly does not know. Dani
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 1:26:46 GMT 8
Looks ok to me I guess...they usually look for one hundred to two hundred on high transition doses.
No idea on low. But I grew boobies on low during the sloooow ramp up stage.
No idea Dani.
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Post by Dani on Mar 18, 2015 2:21:45 GMT 8
Dani the low end can and does get lower. Before they switched me due to it not bring redally available. My estradiol numbers were at full transitioning levels. Thanks Mariah, Lower than 20?, well ok. I do have one quick question, and (no actual numbers being asked for) when you say estradiol #'s were at full transitioning levels, do you mean actual serum levels? I still do not know yet for sure but I read the old serum levels in the 200's range are now in the 400 to 800pg/ml range. Trinity, Ahhhh thanks sooo much, jeez it seems like I've been trying to figure this out forever! Now I finally have an idea . I posted a small item on another place how I will think it will be a good thing once solid long term scientific studies are done with the transgender community in regards to bio-identical hormones. Relying exclusively on old methodologies using studies on prior dangerous forms of hormones only guarantee a skewed, skepical, and fearful attitude regarding hrt. This in turn provides the perfect breeding ground for unsafe transitioning. I will know in a couple hours if the post I made last week or so ago has been resolved, blood test was yesterday, and I'm hoping the numbers have come down some. Fingers crossed. Dani
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