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Post by Edge on May 12, 2015 4:43:26 GMT 8
I think orientation is part of sexuality, but there is more to it. Things like attitudes and beliefs towards sexuality and sexual behaviours, fetishes, activities and roles one prefers, etc are all also part of sexuality.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2015 20:00:18 GMT 8
My understanding if it can apply to your understanding. My life experience if there is a takeawy. My target sex, is either shemale, mtf androgyne or female ts. Inderterminate as of yet. My sexuality, is female. But I am bisexual. But in bed, I am all girl. Unless I am with my wife then I am all girl aggressive with a fun body part we both could enjoy with a gallon of viagra. (oops) My sexuality is a wild young woman, it seems like it was frozen in time, and then thawed out and suddenly alive, like Khan was. My gender, my relationship to the world, my self perception as I walk out of the bedroom, is surely nonbinary. I like and am comfortable with the androgyne appearance, relational reality, fluidity, all that being nonbinary offers, the freedom, the renegade trans, it goes on and on and on, the list of benefits of this gender type. Genderfreed. Now, if she wants to take me, all of me, I unbalance. But, if I was wise, I would realize that hair on and provocative dress on is not crossdressing or fetishistic, though it is erotic for me no doubt, it is part of the sex game, but I would realize that in that surrender to binary beauty if you will, it is no different for sexual she than if she was being taken out to dinner, wined and dined, with the titilating promise of getting royally screwed at nights end dancing in her eyes. As a woman would. Does not invalidate my nonbinary gender. Just means, I get to let she have her way with me for a little while, then wake up in the morning relaxed and smiling. Alas it is a fantasy, but it still is real to me. But if she wants to take me and take it on the street and into my job, the unbalance is in play, the he is stressed, the core is stressed, it ignores a component of self, and allows sexuality to dominate gender. And this is the AH HA moment of the last week, and the reason I went through hell and another mental freeze out last week too. It was bad, it was very, very bad. Sexuality wanted control of gender and social life, and got it, as well as getting the mind too, taking me right back to addictive battlegrounds. So the answer is balance. To wine and dine she, to take he to the racetrack, to dress provocative when she wants to, to be androgyne and out in my normal, to dress outwardly male at events when the male is going to enjoy being a dad, or a husband on the dance floor, albeit I wont wear mens underwear for any reason unless forced to. tidy whiteys, eeewwwww. Tidy whities with someones erection in it... Jamie looks tame....she would go nuts over it. And sex? The wires, the equipment? I do find it interesting that it is impossibe for me to orgasm unless in heavy fantasy of having a vagina and being fully female. I suspect that is my true sex, the mtf female. At least, to get off. The sex that is current, the cool looking female with the cute little balls, that is just as valid, and I suspect if I was taken again, i wouldnt care that I had the little guy. Odd that my nerve centers are underneath that toy, seriously, its like something is buried underneath there that women have....DES son, who knows. So.... my point. My point is to ask if you have balancing problems with sex, sexuality, and gender, and how the dynamics of it work together in you. Rather candid and explicit convo but its to the benefit of the forum, not intended for shock or to indulge she. And I am sh'e not she. She is part of sh'e. And very immature and rather difficult for me to handle. Always wanting more attention. Colors everything I do, I take care of her like a child, my maternal wise part does that, my dad part does that, she is a handfull. Been chained many years, of couse she is. Do you balance, have influence from your body, your sexuality and drives, your interrelational mind as it relates to gender? That is the relevent question. The other stuff is to get you thinking.
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Post by Edge on May 12, 2015 21:06:23 GMT 8
Sometimes I have trouble.
I don't know what my orientation is (other than not straight or a lesbian), so that bothers me sometimes. Sometimes, I say I'm bi, sometimes I say I'm mostly gay, most of the time I just make an "ehhhh" noise and wiggle my hand non-committedly. Due to the equipment I have, the fact that I hate, er, using other body parts, and the lack of equipment I'd need, I always have to be the receiver in sex which I really don't like due to my history and the fact that I can't shake the feeling that I'm in the "female" role. Sex in general has been disappointing ever since my son was born. So my sexuality at the moment is mostly unknown and disappointing and the fact that I have to play the "female role" causes me issues. I used to have some internalized homophobia as well because I was worried that being queer made me less of a guy. It doesn't and that's a dumb idea, but *shrug* I got over it.
My gender identity also caused me some issues because I worried that female me made me less male. I know now that's not the case, but other people still think so. I'm also not sure where she comes from since I'm pretty sure my brain is male. I also find that I feel uncomfortable and unhappy if I try to ignore one. I find we're alright acknowledging each other internally and to some close friends (and people online). Either way, I have the same expression.
The sex I feel I should be is male. When I was first exploring this, I was worried that female me would mean I'd never be able to transition and this made me very upset. Turns out all of me is happy and more comfortable with myself now that I've started transitioning though. Pretty lucky for me.
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Post by Sisyphus on May 13, 2015 0:39:50 GMT 8
I wish I could identify "ehh" with a hand wriggle. Mostly, I say I am bi, but thats not really accurate. I used to say sapiosexual (meaning attracted to people) until it came to my attention that nowadays its being defined as attracted to intelligence,. Sometimes I identify who I would be sexually attracted to without knowing much and identify who I would be romantically attracted to: I used to frame it like this: like neopolitan icecream, but I feel I really need to update this framework based on what I've learned about being marinated in the binary and based on starting to come into more social interaction regarding acceptance of who I am (as opposed to just knowing it deep inside and tucking it away)
Strawberry (my fav) = genderblenders Vanilla (pretty goos) = women Chocolate (blegh, but I could eat in a pinch, if I really felt like icecream) = men
Romantic = person based, would not take yucky strawberry just because its strawberry over devine chocolate. Its the whole sum of the person (which does not mean ignoring how their gender is an integral part of who they are)
But looking at that now, I feel like it really needs to be updated because the definitions of men and women, just so much goes into that, so what do I mean? Biological constellation? Gender manifestation? Or truly binary constructs?
Trinity, I think I'm starting to get a better feel, like sexuality is its own thing, and so can inform sexual orientation, but I still feel immature in my understanding. I could use consuming more sharing on people's thoughts on this topic to continue to grasp a better understanding.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2015 1:26:32 GMT 8
It's still New to me. I'm exploring here, I don't know much. I know how it feels to me. Not to others. We have our own truths.
I'm still New at this, the concept came as an ah ha and was from Ativan last time I got in gender trouble. As I frequently do.
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Post by megan on May 13, 2015 22:59:48 GMT 8
Orientation is another word used for sexuality. Orientation is an aspect of your sexuality.Google it for a bazillion definitions, but in general, that's about it. You can use your sexuality in the way it is oriented. There is more than one social construct built into that. So is that like the people that strive to have heterosexual sexual behaviors even though their attraction is to their same sex? And then when you are non-binary how does one even identify their sexuality since it is also in terms of a binary? Oh this does get complicated. I personally feel like there is actually a difference too between what you find attractive and who you are actually willing to engage in sexual behavior with. I identify as pansexual but I would have to say that my initial attraction based on looks is pretty heavily geared toward feminine or androgynous looking individuals. However initial attraction has not been a good indicator of who my actual partners end up being. It's pretty evenly spread across the table.
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Post by Edge on May 14, 2015 0:03:40 GMT 8
So is that like the people that strive to have heterosexual sexual behaviors even though their attraction is to their same sex? What are heterosexual sexual behaviours aside from having sex with someone of a different gender?
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 0:22:52 GMT 8
The words hetero and homosexual kinda became meaningless for me
I like both male, female, and anyone else. I'm an anyone else too myself, I guess.
So I don't worry about it but I know what I like done to me and I know I love women more than men emotionally, but can love either just as much, and my attraction to the nonbinaries can get very, very strong emotionally and physically.
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Post by Ativan Prescribed on May 14, 2015 3:30:39 GMT 8
Orientation is pretty much hetero or homo, and NB can't be defined in that way, because it is based on a binary norm. A lot of that is a part of the social construct of it, that there is only binary. Sexuality is all things that concern social sex for an individual, generally speaking. Google it to come up with a bunch of different definitions, but in general, that's about it. A painting can be very sexual for some people, so it it a part of their sexuality, has nothing much to do with orientation unless the painting is explicitly so. A scene in a movie can be very sexual, even if it is not the same as your orientation. Orientation is more like a direction you tend to go in a landscape of sexuality. Not all landscapes have sexuality in them, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar... Try not to combine things as if they can be, just because you can use both at the same time. It's all pretty much abstract save for those things that you recognize as not. Look at it this way, for example, a car is a motor, a body, and wheels, all separate things. You can get a flat tire and still drive, the body is still the same thing. The engine might quit, but the other things are still what they are. But when you are using a car, you generally use the entire thing, or all of the things at the same time. You use them in the way that works best, you might open the windows, but the body and the rest are the same. You might put the pedal to the metal and drive like the wind, but that doesn't change what the other things are. I could use more examples, but you get it. Sexuality is the car, orientation is where you steer the wheels, the body is a part of the presentation of the car. You get in it and drive. There are countless variations of cars and how people use them. Breakdown these ideas of self and see them not for what you think they are, but as the ways that we all see them in agreement with each other. That agreement is the general reality that we live in. That society has defined cars as motorcycles is a social construct about vehicles, lol.
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Post by Sisyphus on May 14, 2015 21:23:16 GMT 8
I feel like there is a lot to chew on here, in a good way, a framework shifting way. I started to reply but I was using so many quotes and they were all summing up to: Wow, I never thought of it like that before, and, each perspective may be personal to each person but just hearing about it is adding to my mindquilt.
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Post by megan on May 14, 2015 23:35:07 GMT 8
So is that like the people that strive to have heterosexual sexual behaviors even though their attraction is to their same sex? What are heterosexual sexual behaviours aside from having sex with someone of a different gender? That's pretty much it. There are people that are attracted to their same gender but try to only engage in sexual behaviors with people of the 'opposite' gender. So their sexual orientation would be different than their actual sexual behaviors, assuming that their orientation is strictly attraction to same gender and not bisexual or pansexual.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2015 10:43:15 GMT 8
What are heterosexual sexual behaviours aside from having sex with someone of a different gender? That's pretty much it. There are people that are attracted to their same gender but try to only engage in sexual behaviors with people of the 'opposite' gender. So their sexual orientation would be different than their actual sexual behaviors, assuming that their orientation is strictly attraction to same gender and not bisexual or pansexual. It gets interesting. I loved women but was fond of men. I loved being screwed, and with women felt disassociated from the penis, making it third party in a girl on girl relationship. The combinations and feelings are as varied and creative and unclassified as Nonbinary is.
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Post by megan on May 15, 2015 23:51:17 GMT 8
That's pretty much it. There are people that are attracted to their same gender but try to only engage in sexual behaviors with people of the 'opposite' gender. So their sexual orientation would be different than their actual sexual behaviors, assuming that their orientation is strictly attraction to same gender and not bisexual or pansexual. It gets interesting. I loved women but was fond of men. I loved being screwed, and with women felt disassociated from the penis, making it third party in a girl on girl relationship. The combinations and feelings are as varied and creative and unclassified as Nonbinary is. I think that like gender, sexuality is also much more fluid than people think. Of they many gay people I know, there is only one that would never and could never imagine themselves doing anything sexual with someone of the 'opposite' gender. All the others have a strong preference for their same gender but have had encounters with 'opposite' gender or have thought about it with certain people. I also think it is interesting how when you toss in some alcohol, many people that are straight or gay... well those lines get a bit blurred under the influence. So I think people that feel a stronger attraction to one or the other often just decide that to stay in the binary it's easier to just pick that one, even though in reality they do have some attraction to others. Of course I think it varies from person to person. My best friend for instance does not have any attraction to anyone other than masculine identified people. I jokingly refer to him as '100% gay alignment' His partner also identifies as gay but he says he's a 80/20 as there are some feminine identified people he is attracted too and has in the past had sexual encounters with. I just think that most of these categories are a lot more flexible and fluid than most people make them out to be.
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Post by Sisyphus on May 16, 2015 0:32:21 GMT 8
I guess I would see sexuality and sexual behavior as not necessarily the same thing. Like, sexual behavior could be driven by sexuality, but may also be driven by other things. Unless I don't have quite the grasp on sexuality yet.
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Post by Whisper on May 16, 2015 8:32:25 GMT 8
Gender is a loaded word. it can mean many things. most transgender & NB people speak more specifically about gender identity, gender norms & expectations, gender behavior, gender roles, social gender, and/or gender expression using the word gender. 'gender' is loaded in that most people don't specify which aspect they are talking about. understanding is rather found through context clues.
gender and sexuality sometimes do cross paths despite being separated many times. a person's partner must take into account a non-binary person's gender aspects, which will be part of their sexuality, attraction, and/or romantic connection.
NB partner's orientation can be complicated and confusing as much as the NB person's own orientation aspects.
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